How to safely check habitation battery fluid levels

[Zafira]

Hello

Firstly I want to say how sorry I was to read of Allan's (of aandncaravan services) diagnosis and prognosis - devastating news; I wish you and all your loved ones the very best for the future, may it be as comfortable as possible, allowing you all to spend time together.

I traded my year old coachbuilt Hobby (there's a tale!!) in for a new Wildax Constellation in May and couldn't be happier!  Its habitation battery is contained within a dedicated battery case under the 3rd travel seat and is therefore easily accessible.

The habitation battery is a Banner Energy Bull, it is vented via a clear plastic pipe to the outside down through a hole in the van floor.  The leaflet provided with the battery (& the Wildax handbook) sets out the importance of checking the battery fluid level - I have duly bought the not inexpensive cell removal tool plus the necessary distilled water.

My question is this:-  to an ignoramus what are the steps that I need to take to set about checking that fluid level?  Is it just a case of whipping off the storage case lid and each cell cap to check the level or should I be performing any straightforward electrical related isolations?!

Many thanks for everyone's input!

[aandncaravan]

Thank you for the very nice words.

 

Checking a battery needs to be done carefully as hydrogen gas can be released during charging, so safety is key.

 

We have created a web page to help everyone do it safely :

 

http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-safety.php

 

 

Please note that the Banner Energy Bull is one of the highest maintenance batteries going and uses a lot of fluid, especially if left on long term EHU or Solar.

This means that it produces a lot of Hydrogen and Oxygen which will remain inside the battery, escaping when you remove the filler top-up caps. So extra, extra care is required with this battery more than any other.

 

Even with the special tool, be prepared to use some real effort to get the caps undone.

 

 

 

Banner look set to replace the battery in the near future with one they list as having ZERO fluid loss, presumably having learnt from previous mistakes?

 

[tonyishuk]

Taking on board what is written above. My method of checking my Banner battery twice a year. (it does need a top up) is to:

 

Open the work area and let the area vent. I do not disconnect the battery as we might be in for sparks, and as said with gas, could be a bad thing!

 

Remove the caps, place onto kitchen roll, to adsorb the acid.

 

Take a look into the vent hole and you will see a plastic ""hook"" (for want of a better expression) the water / / Acid level should be at the same level as the hook.

 

I tend to fill, so the hook is just submerged ( you can see it being covered if you add water slowly).

 

Replace caps and wipe down.

 

Job done.

 

Rgds

[Zafira]

Many thanks for both replies.  Just to check that I don't do anything with adverse consequences......there is a solar panel charging the habitation (and vehicle) battery (ies) - should I be doing anything with this before taking the caps off the battery to check the cells?

[aandncaravan]

Strictly speaking, the battery should not be undergoing any charging which might create Hydrogen as you are checking the cells

So yes, as we say on the Solar pages, you should isolate the Solar Panel from the Solar regulator before you do any maintenance work involving the batteries.

Ideally several hours before removing battery filler caps.

 

We advise the fitment of a fuse between the Solar panel and the regulator that can be removed for maintenance, see 'Hints and Tips' number 1 : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/solar-power.php

 

Don't be surprised if there isn't one, Professional fitters rarely fit one, but suggest you get one added for obvious reasons.

 

 

A very good question and one I didn't specifically cover in our web pages on battery safety advice, so have updated that now.

 

 

You are probably thinking this is an awful lot of faffing around you don't want the hassle of, and I am still astounded that Banner could build such an old fashioned battery when the best are maintenance free.

The whole design of the Energy Bull is so ill suited to a modern motorhome, and we have been saying that for about 5 years.

I must find some of the old threads and update them.

 

Suggest that you regard the Banner batteries as disposable, they don't have a long life, typically 2 years. When they expire, fit maintenance free Varta LFD90's. True Fit And Forget batteries and literally three times as good as the Banner, IMO.

 

 

Got this email below a couple of days ago from a battery retailer on just how rubbish the industry think they are -

 

"Our highest return rate without doubt by ratio is Banner wet lead acid. These returns only include a very small number of actual battery/manufacturing defects. They come back boiled dry, swollen and sulfated and cause us huge problems with the end user. Not sure what's going on there, I'm aware that they are a thirsty unit but the regular sulfation is a concern. Raised lids around the positive terminals and bulging sides".

 

 

The 'bulging cases' comment, from a build up of internal issues, might give you a clue as the battery that bursts more than any other wet battery. Still lower than AGM though.

It used to be an essential element to have a 'battery tray' to catch any split wet acid, but that practise stopped when batteries became maintenance free.

Suggest anyone with Banner batteries considers resurrecting the practise.?

 

 

[Zafira]

Many thanks Allan for the additional info.

I'm taking the van back to Wildax this week to have them check that the fittings re the underslung LPG tank are all gas-tight so will ask them about the presence (or otherwise) of a fuse to isolate the solar panel.

I do check the Banner battery compartment on each trip for anything obviously adverse...……  Banners sound problematic - wonder why they are fitted?!

[Derek Uzzell]

Banner “Energy Bull” batteries have been standard-fitment on several makes of Continental-European motorhomes for years (Rapido is just one example).

 

Tens of thousands of “Energy Bull” batteries will have been installed in new motorhomes and (to the best of my knowledge) there are no statistics to say how many of those batteries have failed prematurely (say within 3 years of the motorhome being sold). If one takes the trouble to look at comments about this battery on Continental motorhome forums, those comments are generally favourable - one motorhome owner recently said that his 100Ah version had been problem-free during 8 years of intensive use.

 

“Energy Bull” batteries do need ‘maintenance’ as, if the electrolyte-level is allowed to fall too low, the battery will be damaged. My Rapido’s “Energy Bull” battery is still performing adequately for my needs after over 3 years. I don’t have ‘solar', nor do I leave the battery on continuous charge when the motorhome is not being used, but I do keep a close eye on its electrolyte-level.

 

I don’t believe Allan has any credible evidence to support his statement that these batteries "don't have a long life, typically 2 years”. If that were the case, there would be thousands of motorcaravanners complaining bitterly about it, and that’ has not happened. No doubt some of these batteries fail early because people don’t appreciate that they need to be ‘maintained’, and some will just fail (reason unknown) - but advising a typically 2-years lifespan is just blind guesswork.

[aandncaravan]

Derek Uzzell - 2018-08-06 9:45 AM

 

Banner “Energy Bull” batteries have been standard-fitment on several makes of Continental-European motorhomes for years (Rapido is just one example).

 

 

I don’t believe Allan has any credible evidence to support his statement that these batteries "don't have a long life, typically 2 years”. If that were the case, there would be thousands of motorcaravanners complaining bitterly about it, and that’ has not happened. No doubt some of these batteries fail early because people don’t appreciate that they need to be ‘maintained’, and some will just fail (reason unknown) - but advising a typically 2-years lifespan is just blind guesswork.

 

Derek,The Banner Energy Bull battery is almost unique in it's technology/construction for a mainstream battery. It uses the same high Antimony content technology used extensively in the 1950's (Discovered in the 1930's but widespread use came later).

 

This technology endows the battery with good ability to deep discharge but has several major disadvantages, which is why the best quality high tech batteries dropped it's use a while ago.

 

Firstly it has a higher self discharge rate, not the best characteristic for a motorhome or Caravan which is idle for long periods of time.

The battery starts to discharge from the moment it is made, and within a very short time Sulphation will begin as the voltage drops.

Clearly that will compromise many batteries, leading to greater sulphation than it's competitors and something that was particularly picked out by the battery retailer who wrote above about high numbers of Energy Bull failures -

" I'm aware that they are a thirsty unit but the regular Sulfation is a concern..........".

 

 

Secondly, the battery suffers badly from Antimony poisoning.

A world renown battery expert, Steve Clark, wrote -

"Lead-Antimony alloys are not well suited for stand-by service with a constant charge. The phenomenon of antimony-poisoning where antimony from the grid alloy forms small discharge points on the negative plate surface is a direct result of continuous charging.

This results in a continuously increasing float current and water consumption over the life of the battery. The rate of antimony-poisoning is directly related to the operating temperature, charging voltage and the antimony content of the alloy".

 

 

The very British thing of leaving vehicles on long term EHU is exactly that, very British.

I have spoken to/had emails from Europeans who think our practice of charging a battery for months at a time when it won't need charging is incomprehensible.

Something that isn't regarded as normal practice where either the vehicles you mention are made or, in Austria where the battery Is designed.

 

 

Roapro dropped a clanger in marketing the battery as maintenance free, specifically stating that in their very major marketing campaign.

You extracted some text from the Roapro website FAQ page and put it into a thread written in 2015 that said -

"Q) Do I need to check my Banner batteries?

 

A) Banner “Energy Bull” batteries don’t require maintenance in normal use".

 

 

See : http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Banner-Batteries-Knackered-After-6-Months/40167/31/

 

 

Just a year later, November 2016, the Roadpro website had changed to warn of high fluid loss when used with :

"'......a solar panel, a battery to battery charger or a mains charger that's on for days at a time, the electrolyte levels of Energy Bull batteries must be checked on a regular basis".

 

Clearly someone, somewhere had given major feedback to Roadpro contrary to their initial advice.

That advice would have only changed if they had received SIGNIFICANT feedback to the contrary.

 

I would therefore suggest that is proof that a LOT of people have made unhappy noises. The battery retailer we mention above also states above Banner Energy Bull are their biggest issue by miles, supporting this.

 

But just in case anyone needs more evidence, if you do a search of Exide batteries, a primary supplier before Banner stormed the market, you will see few mentions of premature Exide failures.

But if they search this forum for Banner battery issues they will find a lot.

Within those threads, additional contributors express their unhappiness. A lot of them with Energy Bull's with only months life, not years.

 

Our assessment of the battery is based on real experience removing them and cutting them open. We believe a two year estimate on life before they are 'exhausted' is more than they deserve.

When the effect of Solar permanently charging the Energy Bull becomes more apparent, I think that 2 years is going to be a max life, not typical.

 

 

 

 

[tonyishuk]

Taking on board what Derek and aannc have written about Banner batteries. My Rapido Banner is still going (now I have written that, it will suffer the sulphate of death) after nearly eight years of maintence and probably over enthusiastic use of Cteck charger.

 

Judging by what is written, It would seem to me that Banner batteries either suffer from bad quality control, or have differing manufacturing standards before the labels are stuck on ? to have such diverse proformance and longevity.

 

Maybe luck of the draw which the user ends up with ?

 

Rgds

 

 

[aandncaravan]

tonyishuk - 2018-08-07 4:21 PM

 

 

Judging by what is written, It would seem to me that Banner batteries either suffer from bad quality control, or have differing manufacturing standards before the labels are stuck on ? to have such diverse performance and longevity.

 

Maybe luck of the draw which the user ends up with ?

 

 

I don't think there is any question of poor quality or manufacturing standards.

However, I think you are right there is an element of luck because the high self discharge rate results in a new battery starting to lose volts the minute it is made. So if an Energy Bull is unsold for several months, it will already be sulphating before it has even been purchased.

 

As we have said before it is imperative with this battery, more than any other, that they are fresh manufactured when purchased.

Someone buying a battery only two months old will be off to a much better start than one of 6 months and already sulphated.

 

If the person in the second scenario leaves an already sulphated battery on long term charge, it may have a very short life due to Antimony poisoning and further sulphation.

 

If the 'first buyer' above with a young battery doesn't keep it on long term EHU, just like Derek, and they maintain it regularly by regular fluid top-up and charging then their experience, may be completely different to the first buyer. While those who are are more 'battery savvy' might have a reasonable experience, that won't be the norm and explains the variance of lifetime.

 

 

While you might say that is all related to 'care and maintenance', a Varta LFD/Bosch L range, and most other modern batteries, have a very low self discharge, still showing a good voltage at 6 months, They are more likely to start life in good shape, won't need any maintenance and won't suffer Antimony poisoning under typical UK usage.

 

 

The problem is, that many Energy Bull batteries are in the retailers too long and already degraded before they are bought.

Roadpro don't help by putting in their FAQ -

"Usually, the batteries we supply were made within the previous 6 months but we cannot definitely guarantee this. However, it is not correct to say that a battery older than 6 months will be less

efficient".

 

 

But then again the same FAQ is full of lots of other rubbish. It not only says the Energy Bull doesn't gas and can be mounted INSIDE the vehicle under a seat without a vent, but specifically, and very, very incorrectly, describes the Energy Bull as a recombination (totally maintenance free) battery. When the whole design couldn't be less so than even the worst wet Platinum battery!!

 

Totally inaccurate and very dangerous advice.

 

 

You can see why, even now, many think the Banner is maintenance free and a half decent battery..

 

Good job the biggest Motorhome specific battery retailer in the UK knows what they are talking about.

See -.

https://www.roadpro.co.uk/userfiles/PDFs/product%20information/Batteries/Banner%20Batteries%20FAQs.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Zafira - 2018-08-05 8:57 PM

 

Many thanks Allan for the additional info.

I'm taking the van back to Wildax this week to have them check that the fittings re the underslung LPG tank are all gas-tight so will ask them about the presence (or otherwise) of a fuse to isolate the solar panel.

I do check the Banner battery compartment on each trip for anything obviously adverse...……  Banners sound problematic - wonder why they are fitted?!

 

Zafira

 

After your battery-related problems with your previous Hobby motorhome I can fully appreciate why you want to take every practicable measure to avoid anything similar happening to your new Wildax.

 

If you accept Allan’s suggestion “...that you regard the Banner batteries as disposable, they don't have a long life, typically 2 years” then your comment/question "Banners sound problematic - wonder why they are fitted?!” is perfectly understandable.

 

Motorhome habitation batteries (Banner, Varta, Exide - whatever their make) are all ‘disposible’ in that, when they eventually fail, they will not be repaired. Allan and I disagree over how long a Banner “Energy Bull” battery's typical lifespan might be, but as you’ll be taking your motorhome back to Wildax for a gas-tank check, why not ask them about this? Ask Wildax why they choose to fit the Banner battery and (equally important) if it transpires that Wildax have been fitting “Energy Bull” batteries as standard for a significant number of years, whether they can say what the failure rate and typical lifespan of those batteries have been.

 

It is possible to establish a Banner battery’s date of manufacture, and I’ll use my Rapido’s habitation battery as the example:

 

My Rapido’s Banner “Energy Bull” battery carries two 5-character groups - “FBBEF” (next to the battery’s negative terminal) and “XX51A” (next to the battery’s positive terminal).

 

The date-of-manufacture infomation is contained within the 5-letter group next to the NEGATIVE terminal.

 

The week and year are identified by the initial 4 letters of the group, with A=0, B=1, C=2 etc. The 1st pair of letters identifies the week and the 2nd pair of letters identifies the year. So FBBE equates to 5114 and indicates that my Rapido’s battery was made in the 51st week of 2014. (I took delivery of the Rapido in April 2015.) The 5th letter in the group provides Banner with information identifying the person in charge of the production line.

 

(Banner told me that the “XX51A” 5-character group on my battery identifies the production line and battery make-up.)