Hymer Warranty - not happy!!

[Paul F]

I was just wondering if anybody else has direct experience of Hymer warranty claims.

 

I bought my brand new van in November 2020 and reported a second batch of defects in mid October this year. After sending photos and a detailed description of the faults, I was asked to leave the van with them for a week to investigate. When I picked the van up, no decision on the items that are clearly faulty - just an explanation that a warranty claim would be submitted to Hymer, I asked if the faults were accepted as warranty items but the dealer would not answer, saying it was for Hymer to decide. After six weeks waiting, I have just been told that the dealer cannot get any response from Hymer and they will keep chasing. Further to that I am told that even if the items are accepted as warranty claims, getting the parts will take a further 8-12 weeks. So whatever happens, It is unlikely I will get everything fixed before February 2022 at the earliest.

 

I have always had German cars because the after sales support is generally excellent. I foolishly (it seems) assumed that German motorhomes would be the same.

 

I am pretty sure I am right to say that under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 it is the dealer that is responsible to me. I understand they will want to recover the costs from Hymer if possible, but items on the vehicle have clearly failed within the two year warranty and I want them fixed.

 

Any similar experiences, and how did you overcome them??

[mtravel]

Which kind of problems are you having ?

I would write directly to Hymer (dealer carbon copied but not necessarily).

[Derek Uzzell]

This 2020 forum thread may be of interest

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Hymer-warranty-woes/54495/

[Paul F]

Yes, I thought the same but trying to find direct UK Hymer contact details is difficult - most things just refer back to the dealers. I have messaged through the main hymer.com website, so hopefully that will generate a response.

 

Mainly electrical problems to be honest - lounge TV lifter mechanism totally broken - motor spins but TV doesnt move, Caratec Amp working intermittently and needing regular resets to bring it back to life, and also bedroom TV sound intermittent (dealer suggested just a faulty cable - but its behind all the panelling from the rear to the front of the van), and the big item is a scratched windscreen.

 

The first time I switched the wipers on the rubber popped out the end of the blade as the flexor was not located correctly in the wiper blade arm. The result was an arced scratch right across the screen (corresponding with the end of the wiper blade). The dealer fitted new blades (which I said werent required after I fitted the first ones properly) and then that set did exactly the same!!

 

A windscreen is best part of £2,000 and the dealer are adamant they will not pay for it unless Hymer do. My position is simply that I drove the van and the first time it rained I put the wipers on. I did nothing wrong, so the wiper was faulty or poorly fitted and that caused the problem. They say screens are not covered under warranty but I say somebody other than me must be responsible if the damage was caused by the factory or the dealer fitting wipers incorrectly.

[crocs]

Sounds like everything, apart from screen, is pretty easy to fix and is clearly the dealer’s responsibility, so don’t be fobbed off by them. Windscreen is more difficult and may be an insurance claim, though I agree with your logic.

[Derek Uzzell]

There are firms advertising repairs for scratched windscreens (example here)

 

https://www.glassdoctors.co.uk/windscreen-repair/windscreen-scratch-repair/

 

As Paul has highlighted, replacing the windscreen of an A-Class motorhome is usually very expensive. There's plenty of potential for the replacement procedure to go wrong, or for the appearance of the end result to be less than perfect, or for the new screen to actually leak. So if it's practicable to have the scratch removed successfully at a reasonable cost, that might be a better bet than demanding that a replacement screen be fitted and having to fight Hymer and/or the Hymer dealership over who will pay. Hopefully, Paul's insurance policy would cover the cost of replacing the scratched screen (or at least most of the cost as there's likely to be an excess charge) but the Hymer dealership might be persuaded to meet the cost of a repair (though I doubt Hymer would) even if they won't pay for a replacement screen.

 

Guidance on A-Class windscreens here:

 

https://motorhomeglass.weebly.com/cost-variations.html

[Brian Kirby]

Paul F - 2021-12-03 6:42 PM

1 ....... lounge TV lifter mechanism totally broken - motor spins but TV doesnt move,

 

2 ..........Caratec Amp working intermittently and needing regular resets to bring it back to life,

 

3 ..........bedroom TV sound intermittent (dealer suggested just a faulty cable - but its behind all the panelling from the rear to the front of the van)

 

4 ..........the big item is a scratched windscreen.

 

The first time I switched the wipers on the rubber popped out the end of the blade as the flexor was not located correctly in the wiper blade arm. The result was an arced scratch right across the screen (corresponding with the end of the wiper blade). The dealer fitted new blades (which I said werent required after I fitted the first ones properly) and then that set did exactly the same!!

 

..........................My position is simply that I drove the van and the first time it rained I put the wipers on. I did nothing wrong, so the wiper was faulty or poorly fitted and that caused the problem. They say screens are not covered under warranty but I say somebody other than me must be responsible if the damage was caused by the factory or the dealer fitting wipers incorrectly.

1 - 3 Are the TV and Sound system part of the Hymer supply? If not, I assume the dealer will have fitted them. I ask, particularly because Caratec is a UK company, and I believe items such at TVs and sound systems are not usually factory fit but, even if supplied as part of a factory order, are frequently delivered boxed for the dealer to install. This may not be the case with Hymer, but the usual reason seems to be potential for damage/tampering during transport of the van to the dealership. I'm assuming here that these were optional extras you chose.

 

4 Simply stated, from your description of the events, the wiper blades were no fit for purpose and the windscreen damage is a direct consequence of that. If the van was delivered with wiper blades pre-fitted, then there may be a warranty issue, but even if not it was the dealer who supplied the van and they are the only entity against which you have a legal right of redress under consumer legislation.

 

If the TVs and sound system were fitted by the dealer, either post delivery from Hymer, or were supplied and fitted by the dealer, then I would expect Hymer to reject a warranty claim and to tell the dealer to sort them at his expense. In that case, it is the dealer who was wholly responsible for ensuring they were properly fitted and functioning, so it is the dealer you should pursue for remedy. He must then recover whatever, if anything, he is due from Hymer. Say if the TV itself, or the rise and fall mechanism, is clearly defective.

 

If you are unsure whether these items are actually fitted at works, or were fitted by the dealer after delivery to them (whether or not supplied for that purpose by Hymer), why not have a chat to another reputable Hymer dealership on a casual basis to enquire whether, if your were to order such items for a van you are thinking of getting, they would be dealer supplied/fitted or factory installed and delivered in situ. 'Though, depending on their reply on the more obvious and expensive options, you may have to toss in the wiper blade query casually at the end, as it might ring alarm bells if asked earlier! :-)

 

Alternatively, rather then cluttering up this string, why not start another to see if other Hymer owners know whether those options, and the wiper blades, are factory, or dealer, fit items?

 

Then, and depending on the answers you get, it might be worthwhile quietly explaining the situation in person to the MD of the dealership, appealing for reasonableness, and advising him/her that, unless they pull out the stops to put you back into the position you should be in, you will, with great reluctance, take legal action and in doing so will also be seeking to recover all of your costs in pursuing your claim.

 

Perhaps before that point, it would be wise to take legal advice on your right to reject the whole van rather than pursuing repair/compensation. The obvious complication with rejection being that you have now had the van for over a year, and the dealer's consequent argument that you could be deemed to have legally "accepted" it. But that argument is probably best left for the lawyers.

[TeamRienza]

I have a B (A) class Hymer. The three wiper spindles come through holes close to the bottom of the windscreen. During the warranty period I put a set of silver screens on overnight on an unremarkable March evening. The following morning there was a horizontal crack of about 6 inches running away from the hole nearest the drivers side towards the passenger side.

 

I drove 60 careful miles home with no further deterioration and parked overnight. I checked the screen around 9.00 before ringing my dealer. He asked for photographs, so I went outside into the now sunny driveway and found that the crack had turned 90 degrees and ran vertically most of the way up the screen. The sun had, I assume, caused the further crack which confirmed my thoughts that both were caused by stress.

 

I drove 100 miles to the dealer with no further issue, which at least reassured me that driving with a cracked screen was feasible in emergencies.

 

There was some internet evidence of others having the same problem. My dealer who is very customer centred and has dealt very fairly with me on other issues (airbag ecu, faulty wiper control and other more minor issues in year 1) did not hold out much hope of Hymer accepting the claim and replacing. As foretold Hymer refused to yield, rather like the headlight unit crazing issue which is very widely known.

 

I had to go down the insurance route. The replacement screen was cracked before it even arrived at the dealers, but the third was fine and is good to this day.

 

You may benefit from joining the ‘hymer owners group’ on facebook. It has 11,000 members and is the only worthwhile Hymer specific group that I have encountered. It suffers from the usual drawbacks of being difficult to research, has much irrelevant and dubious information, but like most forums there are a few trusted and helpful members who can offer advice.

 

More a sympathy post than constructive.

 

Davy

[Surreyboy]

With the windscreen if nothing else, I suspect this will go on and on so I'd suggest you go straight in to the dealer (who your contract is with) with a solicitors letter. Don't even refer to it being a warranty issue and use your consumer rights

[Paul F]

Thanks for the useful links Derek, and for the comments generally.

 

Picking up on Brians observations, I am pretty sure that all the TV and audio equipment are factory fitted. They are a bundled purchase option and always seem to be fitted either in part or in full on all the vans of this model that I have seen. I didnt spec the van, it was dealer stock and presented in its current form when I went to view. The dealer even told me recently that they did nothing to it - ''It came from the factory, sat in our showroom and went out to you'' being the explanation they gave when suggesting that ''your issue is with Hymer, and not with us''.

 

I am not actually insisting on a replacement windscreen at this stage, and in my initial correspondence with the dealer I did ask if polishing out the scratch may be a suitable solution - at their expense of course. Sadly, like all my other emails that was not answered, and all subsequent conversations have been about a replacement. I would be happy to polish out the scratch as long the end result was not a distorted view (I have that already) and doing the polishing didnt compromise any structural properties of the screen - polishing is thinning of the glass at the end of the day! Some engagement from the dealer on fixing the problem rather than just batting it back to Hymer and saying ''there is nothing else we can do'' would be so much more constructive.

 

When I collected the motorhome I didnt get any specific details of the Hymer warranty - simply dealer terms that say they will assign the manufacturers warranty to me, and tell me if they are unable to do so. It should therefore be safe to assume the manufacturer two year warranty is in place and indeed Hymer have a responsibility.

 

As the dealer are an authorised Hymer dealer, when I correspond with them my view is that I am effectively communicating with Hymer, although I probably need to take a bit of legal advice on whether that is actually the case or not. Do dealers become the manufacturers agent, legally acting on their behalf, or is the dealership purely a commercial arrangement.

 

If all else fails I am thinking I will fall back to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 that clearly states goods have to be of a satisfactory quality, and one aspect of quality is durability. For the electrical items to fail in less than twelve months is unacceptable. The dealer sold me these items as a part of the vehicle and I maintain that he is therefore responsible. It was when I hinted at this point to the dealer on Friday that things got a little heated!!

 

I tend to follow Brians view that a chat with the MD or someone equally senior at the dealership will soon follow - but it shouldnt be this way. These vehicles are very expensive commodities and I bought new to avoid all this grief.

 

The biggest lesson in all of this is that your choice of dealer is just as important as your choice of motorhome I think.

[Brian Kirby]

Paul, the great difference between a warranty and your rights under the Consumer Rights Act is that the former is a conditional undertaking on the part of a manufacturer over which the warrantor has the right to interpret its meaning, and applicability, as he sees fit, whereas your rights under the Consumer Rights Act are only limited by what, ultimately, a Court of Law judges a fair and reasonable balance between the buyer's expectations and the seller's obligations under the Act. Against that, the warranty is pretty much incidental. What the dealer definitely cannot do, legally, is hide behind the manufacturer's warranty, either in terms of his obligations under the Act to put you back into the position you would reasonably expect to be in, or his legal obligation to progress the rectification of the defects in a timely fashion, irrespective of the manufacturer's response. Neither can he take the line that if the item isn't specifically covered under the warranty, it is not his legal liability either.

 

A motorhome is a large, expensive, complex purchase, which makes the concept of acceptance, on the one hand, and rejection, on the other, legally fraught - especially when significant time has elapsed between taking possession, and finding defects.

 

It may be worth exploring the warranty terms offered by the manufacturers of the individual failed items, to see if they offer more chance of remedy, at less cost in terms of time and energy, than locking legal horns with the dealer. If you can't beat them, go round them! :-)

 

However, I really don't see how dealer or manufacturer can duck out of responsibility for the defective wipers, and the damage resulting from their use in rain. That seems to me to lie squarely with both, but with the dealer clearly having the legal liability. All he needs do is to get the scratch professionally polished out - to your reasonable satisfaction.

 

If it were me, I think I'd be looking at taking legal advice before I had further conversations with the dealer. To that end I think I'd look through my various insurance policies (house, contents, vehicle/s) etc) to see which provide legal expenses cover, and would then speak to their legal advisors regarding your next move. I think I'd probably also be looking for a different dealer!

 

BTW, have you remembered to have any periodic checks/service items attended to in accordance with the warranty terms? The disruptions of Covid have made it very easy to forget the time limited annual damp checks etc. necessary to maintain the water ingress warranty in force.

[Paul F]

I agree completely Brian, and actually all I have tried to do so far (7 weeks tomorrow) is establish the warrantor's position. I dread to think how fraught actually organising the work might be if they accept the claim!!.

 

For now, I simply want to know if Hymer accept the claim or not, and if not, why not. If they accept, then as much as I dont want to wait a further 8-12 weeks for the parts, I will do, and the matter will be resolved for now. However, I suspect that the extended silence on their part means there will be a problem, and that is why I tried to gently suggest to the dealer on Friday about their own obligations. I have asked the dealer to set out their position in writing, but unsurprisingly they have ignored that request.

 

They have promised to get back to me this week with an update (as promised last week and failed) so I will wait for that before doing anything more. In the meantime, I will do as you suggest and try to source some legal advice. I know of at least two free legal helplines that I have access to.

 

Despite all this stress, the dealer very efficiently organised the first damp check and habitation service for me - and took £425 from me in the process. I think that actually only a damp check is required to maintain the warranty, but I thought I would give them a bit more business in the hope that would motivate them to sort all the other stuff out!!

 

I doubt if they will be doing next years check as I write this.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

The Erwin Hymer Centre website's September 2018 advice on Manufacturer Warranties can be read here

 

https://www.motorhomes.co.uk/motorhome-owners/our-warranties/

 

It's certainly the case that - for UK-built motorhomes - an annual 'habitation service' is often required to maintain the validity of the converter's warranty ,and that requirement should be clearly stated in the converter's warranty terms and conditions.

 

A converter's warranty for motorhomes built in Continental Europe normally does not include mandatory habitation servicing within the warranty period when the vehicle is sold outside the UK, though it's normal for a periodic damp-check (usually annual) to be needed to maintain the validity of the water-ingress warranty .

 

When motorhomes built in Continental Europe have been sold in the UK, it's become commonplace for the vendor to inform the buyer that habitation servicing within the converter's warranty period is mandatory to maintain that warranty's validity. Whether this is indeed the case, though, should be supported by that condition being included within the warranty documentation that the buyer SHOULD be given at the handover stage. This 2017 MHFun thread discussed the Hymer warranty.

 

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/hymer-warranty-conditions.148536/

 

Approaching my Rapido motorhome's 1st birthday I wanted a damp-check done to maintain the Rapido water-ingress warranty. The vending dealership told me that this would be part of the mandatory habitation service and they'd need the motorhome for 2 days. I said I just wanted the damp-check carried out (and that shouldn't take long) and that habitation servicing was not mandatory and that there was no mention of it in the warranty documentation. There was an impasse, so I contacted the Rapido factory at Mayenne and confirmed that habitation servicing was not obligatory. The next day the Rapido dealership phoned me, saying that the factory had informed them that habitation servicing was not mandatory and when would I like the damp-check done.

 

I'm not suggesting that (when within-warranty habitation servicing is not mandatory) a motorhome owner should never have it done - just that, when habitation servicing is not mandatory to maintain a warranty, a dealership should not say that it is. It's perfectly acceptable, in my view, for a dealership to recommend that 'non-mandatory' habitation servicing be carried out regularly and leave the choice to the owner.

[Brian Kirby]

I can corroborate the above re damp checks based on our last three vans Hobby, Hymer, and Knaus. These were all LHD imports from Germany, and were all annually damp checked, and had the odd warranty matter attended to, by UK dealers with only one initially querying my assertion that the water ingress warranty required only a suitably recorded, brand dealer's, annual damp check (within specified dates), to maintain it is force. The dealer who queried this vis-a-vis a habitation service checked, and then agreed, and was thereafter completely happy to perform only the damp check, plus taking on a couple of warranty issues.

 

The dealers concerned, who had made no profit on the sale of the vans, were Southdowns of Portsmouth (Hobby and Knaus - though no longer in both cases), and Premier Motorhomes (Hymer) of Birdham, nr. Chichester. Both were were constructive and pro-active in dealing with all issues. So take heart - there are good UK dealers who provide good service! :-)

[crocs]

My advice is very clear and concise. It is the dealer’s responsibility under English Law to remedy the failures and you should make that very clear to them in writing, giving them a clear deadline to respond, failing which legal action will be taken. How hard you go with that line of attack is up to you.

 

Tactically, I would focus on the various non-windscreen issues which have a cast iron case and then argue the case on the windscreen, making it clear that polishing out the scratch would be acceptable. Do not dilute your effort by (trying to) engage with Hymer.

[Hans]

Do not understand This. A good insurance Cover will cover this. Just three days whit a VW Van. Read your insurance policy.

 

[Paul F]

I am not quite sure I understand your message Hans. I am fully aware of what my insurance policy covers and does not cover. However, that is not what we have been debating.

 

There are significant warranty issues that need resolving, and I would prefer not to claim for a windscreen so quickly after changing insurers 4 weeks ago. Whilst windscreen claims do not affect no claims discount in theory, A class insurance is a limited market. My concern is that whilst a £2000 claim may not affect my no claims discount, it may affect the underlying premium.

 

My point really is that the dealer or the manufacturer caused the scratch, and they should rectify it.

[Hans]

Paul what i try to make Clear is that a front Screen Of car or RV can never be claimed to others for damage.. And the manufacturer. You can take legal action via your insurance. But it can last a year.. Example I had a corner crack in my WVT6 van. No way of clue how this happens. No frontal impacts. Just washing. Whit cold water in the hot summer. VW said if it was bad placed the crack was coming very soon after leaving the factory. insurance paid BUT Only via their glass repairs contractors. A -class Screens same way.

[Paul F]

Just a quick update for all previous contributors.

 

I had a really useful discussion with the CAMC legal helpline today during which I explained all the issues fully. They were absolutely clear in their advice that the dealer has full responsibility, both for the failed electrical items and for the windscreen. This is irrespective of any warranty claims that may or may not be made. The electrical items are not of satisfactory quality by failing so quickly. The wipers are not fit for purpose, and as a consequence they have caused the damage to the screen. The dealer should rectify everything at no cost to me.

 

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 protects me fully and the advice was to point this out to the dealer in no uncertain terms.

 

I doubt I will be on their Christmas card list after the next conversation!

[crocs]

I concur with CAMC.

[Hans]

Paul now way that the dealer pays This. Hymer has to pay.

[Ocsid]

Hans - 2021-12-07 3:40 PM

 

Paul now way that the dealer pays This. Hymer has to pay.

 

No, definitely no; here the UK's Consumer Rights Act 2015 is absolutely clear, the supplying dealer uniquely covers the work and all the costs. Paul's single and only point of interface.

 

That the dealer may or may not seek to recover the cost is not an issue Paul needs, and definitely should not get himself involved with. Simply keep to the provisions of the CRA 2015, don't compromise it in anyway by involving Hymer however much you might think they ethically ought to.

[Hans]

Nice post Ocsid. EEc rules are mandatory Up to? in the UK. IS CRA 2015 still in force? Glass damage can never be claimed to Hymer or the dealer. Only your insurance policy of the motorhome damage They decide expert visit or not. Mostly not on glass. Useless discussion on what really the cause was.

[Hans]

Because of lack of workforce at Insurance companies. It can take up to 6 months Now to get reply on E mail.If you work there you get 2500 euro if you find a collegial person.

[Paul F]

A formal complaint is now lodged with the dealer and I am at least getting meaningful communication - although no full resolution yet.

 

I am wholly relying on CRA 2015, but out of interest I contacted Hymer to see what they would say.

 

My message on the hymer.com website was dealt with very efficiently within one working day. They double checked the VIN number and confirmed that no warranty claim has been received by them for my vehicle - despite the dealer telling me for 7 weeks that Hymer are ignoring the claim!!

 

Further evidence that the problem here is very much the dealer.