Hymer headlamp replacement

[Mike74]

1st post, be kind!

 

Hymer BC655 "A" class 2006 2.8jtd. LHD.

The main beam reflector on our motorhome has gone rusty and I need to replace the whole unit, possibly one from ebay. I think I can get access to the unit by removing the "HYMER" grill, 3 self tappers on top and 2 underneath. However the unit appears to be fixed to the fiberglass front by self tappers from the outside, and covered by a aluminum bezel. Tried pulling the bezel with hooks but it won't move! Does anyone know how to remove the bezel. Am I on the right track?

[Derek Uzzell]

Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Mike.

 

A similar enquiry was made on the MHFun forum in 2019 - but the advice (remove the headlamp, then remove the bezel) was just a guess.

 

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/hymer-b644-2004-headlamp-bezel-removal.201037/

 

There’s plenty of online advice about replacing a headlamp bulb on these B-class Hymers (a challenging task in its own right) but I can’t find any credible guidance about removing a complete headlamp from Hymer motorhomes that have this ‘bezel’ arrangement.

 

(Have you explored taking the headlamp out by accessing it from within the engine compartment? I could believe there might be some sort of metal ‘frame’ inside the engine compartment and held in place with self-tapping screws that are visible behind the bezel, and wth the headlamp unit then attached to te frame. However, I’m a mite doubtful that Hymer would be bloody-minded enough to attach the headlamp unit directly with self-tapping screws.

 

This YouTube video relates to a Hymer A-class motorhome with the four round headlamps

 

 

But the vehicle is a 1998 model lacking the bezels shown in your photo, so may not be relevant..

 

 

 

[TeamRienza]

If you subscribe to Facebook, there is an owners group ( a closed group nicknamed hogs) which has a huge membership and consequently much good advice to be had. Easy to join. Hymer owners group.

 

They also have a separate sales site. Sadly I have not found a good web forum dedicated to Hymers.

 

Davy

[Mike74]

Thanks Derek, had a look at the video. That assembly seems to be held from inside onto a plate by self tappers then into the fiberglass. However on mine it's the opposite way round, there are definitely 4 self tappers under the bezel passing through the fiberglass into the mounting plate. Looking from outside, the bezel is cut away around the heads of the screws presumably to allow it to seat correctly. Fingers crossed, someone may have a method of "springing" the bezel off, after that it should be a doddle, (for Hymer headlights).

[thebishbus]

I don't know if is the same to replace the whole lamp, but to replace the bulb on our B584 you have to do it from underneath . You have to jack it up, remove the wheel and the plastic wheel arch cover . With ours I just removed the screws from the front half of the cover ,then bent it back, and tied it back to access the lamp. Not a quick job.

Brian B.

 

Ps If your headlamp adjustment is as in the video it is not a vacuum unit ,it is a self contained unit full of liquid .

[Derek Uzzell]

Mike

 

The MHFun link I provided earlier mentioned that Hymer used double-sided adhesive tape to secure the grey plastic moulding surrounding the headlamps in one photo. It's possible that this tape was also used to secure your bezels and - if the right tape had been chosen - adhesion could be very firm. As Hymer won't have been too concerned about it being simple for an owner to remove a complete headlamp unit, as long as it was easy to fit the bezel when the motorhome was built, the method employed might well have ignored subsequent removal.

 

You might try using a hair-dryer to warm up the bezel and then see if 'hooking' will get it to move.

[Mike74]

Thanks all for the help. I may have to grit my teeth and join the Facebook group mentioned. I will report progress.

[Dobbyt]

Check out this link again.

 

It has images that help with the removal of the bezel. Click on thumbnails to get complete pictures.

 

 

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/hymer-b644-2004-headlamp-bezel-removal.201037/

 

 

[burtie]

On 4/6/2021 at 6:29 PM, Mike74 said:

Thanks all for the help. I may have to grit my teeth and join the Facebook group mentioned. I will report progress.

Hi did you ever get to the bottom of this. I'm currently having the same issues. 

Thanks

[Derek Uzzell]

burtie

Mike74 only posted three times on this forum (all 3 on April 6 2021) and is not a current participant - so you might not get any feedback from him now.

What information are you actually looking for? If you provide details of your Hymer motorhome (age and exact model) and say what you need to know, other forum members may be able to assist.

Otherwise, you might try asking on the Hymer Owners Group on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/groups/490391441165138/

[Deffheads]

I to have these Hella headlights on my Dethleffs A class, in my opinion they are very poor for night driving, so I upgraded the bulbs to HID ones. Much improved night time vision on dip beam and quite an easy upgrade. 

[Mikeandthewife]

Ive got the same problem, I replaced mine with these and they are still rubbish, I'm trying to get mine sorted currently, we travel with Eurotunnel end of April in the early hours and dreading the journey, what did you have to do exactly Deffheads

[Derek Uzzell]

This 2019 forum "Replacement Headlight bulbs" discussion 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/45029-replacement-headlight-bulbs/#comment-573213

includes a mention by Deffheads (January 5 2019) about fitting a HID lighting conversion kit to his motorhome.

The section of the UK MOT inspection manual that deals with vehicle lighting can be read here

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles

For headlamps, Section 4.1.4. covers "Compliance with requirements". The current MOT regulation is much stricter than in the past and - where retro-fitting HID conversion kits or LED bulbs is concerned - the relevant advice is

Existing halogen headlamp units on vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1986 must not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp for light source and lamp not compatible.

The tendency nowadays would be to choose a LED bulb rather than a HID kit and - if the LED bulb has been carefully designed - a dipped-beam pattern should be obtainable that closely matches that produced when the original H7 halogen was in place. Fitting a HID kit should result in a very high light output, but the dipped-beam pattern may well not meet UK lighting requirements.

Whether headlamps retro-fitted with a HID system or LED bulbs will result in a MOT-test failure will depend on the tester's recognition of Section 4.1.4.'s requirements, their experience, and how much checking he/she bothers to make.

If the original halogen bulb could be seen when looking into a headlamp unit, it would be a simple matter to spot that a HID or LED bulb has been fitted there instead. (An immediate test-failure for non-compliance with the 4.1.4. rule).

Conversely, if the original halogen bulb could not be seen when looking into a headlamp unit (eg. when the headlamp is the 'projector' type) and the beam-pattern meets the MOT test's requirements, the vehicle might not be failed. (Personally, if I were a MOT tester and a motorhome turned up with dinky little Hella light-units producing a lot of white light, it would be blindingly 😀 obvious to me that HID or LED bulbs had been retro-fitted.)

There are lots of on-line advertisers marketing H7 LED bulbs and/or Xenon HID  conversion kits (examples here)

https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/h7-led-headlight-bulbs/

https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/h7-hid-conversion-kit/

OSRAM offers Xenon or LED bulbs

https://www.osram.com/ecat/Car lighting-Automotive/com/en/GPS01_1056947/

but even their 'street legal' LED bulbs are not legal in the UK.

OSRAM also offers an 'easy-fit' H7 LED bulb

https://www.osram.com/ecat/LEDriving HL EASY H7-H18-LEDriving HL EASY-LED high and low beam lamps-Car lighting-Automotive/com/en/GPS01_3836534/ZMP_4063386/

but with the following caveat (that applies to all retro-fit LED headlamp bulbs)

These products do not have ECE approval and must not be used on public roads in any exterior application. Public roads use leads to cancellation of operating license and loss of insurance coverage. Several countries forbid sale and use of these products.

[Mikeandthewife]

Hi Derek, lots of good info, as usual, thankyou. LED appears to be the safer option, as long as the additional light/brightness, isn't too strong and the actual bulb change carnt be seen, which in my case they won't, because the glass shade is opaque by design.

It's crazy really, with the correct, law abiding bulbs fitted, you cannot clearly see enough for it to be safe, but if you attempt to make them better, your breaking the law, but I obviously appreciate, the rationale behind this, to not cause a problem to other road users.

Another point is, the quality of the light is even worse, when the beam deflectors are fitted, I know mine are actually adjustable for this, but it's very, very difficult to get to these light fittings and certainly not a job in the early hours of the morning, after a long drive and the clock ticking, whilst travelling on the Eurotunnel train. I should make life easier for myself and travel during daylight hour's.

[Mikeandthewife]

1 hour ago, Derek Uzzell said:

This 2019 forum "Replacement Headlight bulbs" discussion 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/45029-replacement-headlight-bulbs/#comment-573213

includes a mention by Deffheads (January 5 2019) about fitting a HID lighting conversion kit to his motorhome.

The section of the UK MOT inspection manual that deals with vehicle lighting can be read here

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles

For headlamps, Section 4.1.4. covers "Compliance with requirements". The current MOT regulation is much stricter than in the past and - where retro-fitting HID conversion kits or LED bulbs is concerned - the relevant advice is

Existing halogen headlamp units on vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1986 must not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp for light source and lamp not compatible.

The tendency nowadays would be to choose a LED bulb rather than a HID kit and - if the LED bulb has been carefully designed - a dipped-beam pattern should be obtainable that closely matches that produced when the original H7 halogen was in place. Fitting a HID kit should result in a very high light output, but the dipped-beam pattern may well not meet UK lighting requirements.

Whether headlamps retro-fitted with a HID system or LED bulbs will result in a MOT-test failure will depend on the tester's recognition of Section 4.1.4.'s requirements, their experience, and how much checking he/she bothers to make.

If the original halogen bulb could be seen when looking into a headlamp unit, it would be a simple matter to spot that a HID or LED bulb has been fitted there instead. (An immediate test-failure for non-compliance with the 4.1.4. rule).

Conversely, if the original halogen bulb could not be seen when looking into a headlamp unit (eg. when the headlamp is the 'projector' type) and the beam-pattern meets the MOT test's requirements, the vehicle might not be failed. (Personally, if I were a MOT tester and a motorhome turned up with dinky little Hella light-units producing a lot of white light, it would be blindingly 😀 obvious to me that HID or LED bulbs had been retro-fitted.)

There are lots of on-line advertisers marketing H7 LED bulbs and/or Xenon HID  conversion kits (examples here)

https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/h7-led-headlight-bulbs/

https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/h7-hid-conversion-kit/

OSRAM offers Xenon or LED bulbs

https://www.osram.com/ecat/Car lighting-Automotive/com/en/GPS01_1056947/

but even their 'street legal' LED bulbs are not legal in the UK.

OSRAM also offers an 'easy-fit' H7 LED bulb

https://www.osram.com/ecat/LEDriving HL EASY H7-H18-LEDriving HL EASY-LED high and low beam lamps-Car lighting-Automotive/com/en/GPS01_3836534/ZMP_4063386/

but with the following caveat (that applies to all retro-fit LED headlamp bulbs)

These products do not have ECE approval and must not be used on public roads in any exterior application. Public roads use leads to cancellation of operating license and loss of insurance coverage. Several countries forbid sale and use of these products.

Took a closer look at the info you sent me and the potential loss of insurance coverage is worrying, so need to look at alternatives, thanks again 

[Derek Uzzell]

My 2015 Rapido motohome had the standard Fiat Ducato headlamps comprising separate main and dipped-beam reflectors each containing a H7 55W halogen bulb. When main beam was selected, the lights were pretty good (not really surprising with 2 x 110W of bulbs illuminating) but selecting dipped beam obviously halved that to 2 x 55W. The halving in light output was unavoidable and, although I fitted uprated H7 55W halogen bulbs (as you've done) the real problem was the lack of 'reach' of the dipped-beam pattern.

My Ducato had the standard 4-position beam-adjuster in the dashboard, with "0" being the highest setting and "3" the lowest. The solution (if one can call it that) to the lack of reach came when a cooperative mechanic offered to adjust the dipped-beam highest angle so that it was the "3" setting on the beam-adjuster. This meant that, if I so chose, I could select the "2", "1" or "0" and lessen the downwards angle of the dipped beam and gain more reach. I subsequently found that using the "2" setting made a worthwhile improvement reach-wise and - as no angry French drivers flashed me at night - it seemed to be an acceptable ploy.

So something you might consider, rather than go LED or HID.

[Mikeandthewife]

6 hours ago, Derek Uzzell said:

My 2015 Rapido motohome had the standard Fiat Ducato headlamps comprising separate main and dipped-beam reflectors each containing a H7 55W halogen bulb. When main beam was selected, the lights were pretty good (not really surprising with 2 x 110W of bulbs illuminating) but selecting dipped beam obviously halved that to 2 x 55W. The halving in light output was unavoidable and, although I fitted uprated H7 55W halogen bulbs (as you've done) the real problem was the lack of 'reach' of the dipped-beam pattern.

My Ducato had the standard 4-position beam-adjuster in the dashboard, with "0" being the highest setting and "3" the lowest. The solution (if one can call it that) to the lack of reach came when a cooperative mechanic offered to adjust the dipped-beam highest angle so that it was the "3" setting on the beam-adjuster. This meant that, if I so chose, I could select the "2", "1" or "0" and lessen the downwards angle of the dipped beam and gain more reach. I subsequently found that using the "2" setting made a worthwhile improvement reach-wise and - as no angry French drivers flashed me at night - it seemed to be an acceptable ploy.

So something you might consider, rather than go LED or HID.

Hi Derek

My lights definitely need some adjustment, passenger side reach is ok, but shines a bit too far over to the left, the drivers side, position wise is ok, but does lack the reach as you described it, which is what I was going to look at anyway. However, I also have a beam-adjuster and like your idea, especially, if this allows me to get away with the beam deflectors, because these reduce the light emission even further, thanks, will have a go at this.

[Deffheads]

22 hours ago, Mikeandthewife said:

Ive got the same problem, I replaced mine with these and they are still rubbish, I'm trying to get mine sorted currently, we travel with Eurotunnel end of April in the early hours and dreading the journey, what did you have to do exactly Deffheads

I have had no problem with MOT since changing over to HID as mentioned in Dereks post, I decided to do this, as like you I travelled at night in poor weather and the original lighting was poor. Now the dipped beam is great and much safer than before. If in the future it fails a MOT on lights I will swap back to halogen just pass the test, then refit HID for safety. 

[Derek Uzzell]

The 'legality' of retro-fitting a HID system or LED bulbs to the headlamps of a vehicle that has headlamps with halogen bulbs is discussed in this Halfords article.

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/advice/car-bulbs-and-the-law.html#:~:text=HID bulbs,legislation then it's road legal.

and this webpage relates to LED bulbs

https://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/blog/are-led-headlights-legal-in-the-uk/#:~:text=Brexit 2021 Update&text=4 now states the following,to only focus on headlights.

This USA video advises on 'aftermarket' LED bulbs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPcE-fWHmww

and highlights that the design of a LED bulb that is to replace a halogen bulb should 'copy' the latter's specification regarding the position of the LEDs so that the beam pattern produced does not alter. It is also emphasised that the greater the LED bulb's light output the more cooling will be required to ensure longevity.

The reasoning behind Osram's warning about loss of insurance cover is that replacing a UK-registered vehicle's halogen headlamp bulbs with LED or HID will definitely make the vehicle illegal to drive on public roads. Should the vehicle be involved in an accident and (say) a 3rd-party claimed "I was blinded by the glare of the oncoming vehicle's headlamps" and it transpired that original halogen bulbs had been replaced by LED/HID equivalents, an insurer might consider the replacement to be a breach of contract and refuse cover. I've seen lots of on-line discussions about replacing OE halogen headlamp bulbs with LED bulbs (sometimes with comments that this is 'technically' illegal)  but I've yet to read anything on the lines of "I told my insurer I had done this and they were happy with it".