sandalwood Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Hi needed help on above re ubend location on winterising, to stop freezing. Should have given following info: IH Motorhome. TIO. 2012. Where if any is ubend, how do we get ALL water out before we winterised ? Tks Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 I think I covered the U-bend issue reasonably well in my reply to your earlier posting about this https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Pull-down-sink/50859/ I’ve attached a photo of the ‘drop down’ wash-basin that I think will be fitted to your Tio and the picture suggests that the drainage pipework is well hidden. I doubt that any sort of U-bend (or ‘smell trap’) would be fitted to the drainage pipework of this type of wash-basin, but as the pipework is apparently inaccessible it seems to me that the only people likely to be able to provide a firm answer to your U-bend-related question would be IH Motorhomes themselves. I’m also unsure why you think the presence or not of a U-bed/trap matters particularly where ‘winterisation’ is concerned as waste-water drainage pipework is normally large-bore plastic and, even if some water remains within it, should be able to cope if that water freezes. Besides which, even if water were filling the drainage pipework at some point, the ‘foam pipe-insulation’ ploy suggested in MMM Magazine should expel enough of that water to frost-proof the pipework. I don’t recall reading anything in the past about motorcaravanners taking special measures when winterising their motorhome to ensure that waste-water pipework is completely empty of water or that, after a cold winter, frost-damage to the waste-water pipework has occurred. I suspect that most people just drain the waste-water tank and assume that this will be sufficient - certainly that’s all I have ever done. Out of interest I tried using MMM Magazine’s ‘foam pipe-insulation’ method on the outlets of my Rapido’s kitchen-sink, wash-basin and shower-tray. I had ‘winterised’the Rapido a few weeks ago and there was now no indication whatsoever of water being present in the drainage pipework of the kitchen-sink and wash-basin. I could see some water in the outlet of the shower-tray (which is what I would expect given the design of the outlet) and blowing through the foam pipe did lower the level of that water sllightly. But I’m confident that the water that was in the shower-tray outlet before I used the foam pipe blowing-method would not have caused harm if it had frozen. I suggest you use the MMM Magazine’s ‘foam pipe-insulation’ method on the outlets of your Tio’s sink, wash-basin and showewr-tray as it’s a simple cheap ploy and might be worthwhile. But the major risk of frost damage won’t be water being present in water drainage pipework - the big risk will be water remaining in the fresh-water pipework, water pump and water boiler and those are the areas that you really need to concentrate on. (You used to own a Rapido 776FF motorhome that I assume you used to winterise successfully, so why do you apparently think that the process involved in winterising a IHM Tio panel-van conversion should be much different?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Our IH Tio is a 2006 model, and could therefore differ in detail. When not in use, vehicle has been stored in an unheated garage since new. Our standard practice is to drain all water tanks, and water heater. We have not experienced any frost damage over the 12 years of ownership. On our version there are no "U" bends in the waste water system, however the installaton is not perfect. There are dips in the waste water external pipework which could hold a small quantity of water. Our wash basin differs from that in the photo provided by Derek, in that it has a plughole as well as a rear drain, and a curved front edge. The waste pipe from the basin runs over the toilet bench to the side of the vehicle and then backwards and downards to emerge under the RHS seat bench, immediately forward of the water heater. The pipe is then bent through 180 degrees, before descending through the floor at an angle to combine with the shower drain. The combined flow then runs towards the rear to connect with the tank. Convoluted it is! If your basin as has ours, both plughole and rear drain for the basin, the simple blow method will not work without first blocking, either the plughole, or rear outlet. If you are still concerned, you may wish to consider the use of potable antifreeze. A small mixed quantity could be introduced to the fresh water system. Some of the mix could then be pumped into the kitchen sink, and allowed to drain. More of the mix could be poured into the wash basin and shower drains. allowed to drain. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 sandalwood - 2018-12-10 10:57 PM Hi needed help on above re ubend location on winterising, to stop freezing. Should have given following info: IH Motorhome. TIO. 2012. Where if any is ubend, how do we get ALL water out before we winterised ? Tks Ian We had several IH Tio (LWB and XLWB) and never had a problem with the internal pipe work freezing although we didn't winterise it as we use our van all year. One problem did occur during a particularly cold prolonged spell when the pipe work that exits beneath the van froze as the slight 'U' shape did hold water but, in summer, acted as a waste trap stopping smells from the waste tank. Usually, you can access the bathroom pipe work on a Tio by taking the fridge vent covers off. You should see the waste pipe exits the bathroom without a trap or 'U' bend. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketvrin Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 If there is a "U" in your external pipework beneath the van, you should be able to move any water inside along the pipe by working the bend to allow the water to drain further along the pipe. If you remove the fridge vents you might be able to see the drain from the drop down sink, but as Derek says it's unlikely that there will be a "U" in the pipe internally. Antifreeze sounds like a sensible solution (pun) to resolve your issue. Good luck K ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Alanb - 2018-12-11 9:35 AM ...If your basin as has ours, both plughole and rear drain for the basin, the simple blow method will not work without first blocking, either the plughole, or rear outlet. If you are still concerned, you may wish to consider the use of potable antifreeze. A small mixed quantity could be introduced to the fresh water system. Some of the mix could then be pumped into the kitchen sink, and allowed to drain. More of the mix could be poured into the wash basin and shower drains. allowed to drain. Alan In Sandalwood’s 2012 IHM Tio the wash-basin itself does not have a plug-hole. This was established in an October 2018 forum discussion https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/IH-Drop-down-sink-in-bathroom/50579/ that included photos of an earlier IHM wash-basin (with plug-hole) and a later without-plug-hole version. The MMM ‘blowing down the waste pipe’ ploy OUGHT to remove sufficient water to prevent frost damage but (as you touch on) it’s near certain that the wash-basin would need to be temporarily removed - normally taking a matter of seconds - to allow the water drain-hole to be accessed. As I said above, I don’t recall reading before of any motorcaravanner concerning themself about getting all residual water out of the waste-water pipework to guard against frost damage, though there has been plenty of fully-justified concern over winter weather damaging fresh-water pipework, water boilers and toilets that have water retained in them. In the latter case the options seem to involve use of potable antifreeze (eg. the “Winter Ban” product mentioned here) http://www.motorcaravanning.co.uk/shopuk/water_products.htm or using compressed air to drive water out via a DIY method or a commercial product (examples here) https://keepfloeing.com/shop/motorhome/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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