If you have a SEVEL based PVC, read this.

[Brian Kirby]

I recently had to remove a rear light on our 2017 Ducato based PVC. I had previously removed the opposite one to install cabling for a rear view/reversing camera, which proved tricky, but possible. This time it was the opposite side, which is the side with the fresh water tank, and has much more restricted access - to the point at which it was only just feasible to access the rear light fixings.

 

I hadn't realised that converters could be quite so careless of the requirement for basic access to base vehicle items that require periodic attention! 8-)

 

To change a bulb in the current, X290 series, Ducato (so by implication Peugeot Boxer / Citroen Relay) it is first necessary to remove and disconnect the whole rear light unit - which involves access to two 17mm hex nuts which are sited in a void between the external body skin and an internal reinforcing member. This void is accessed from the load space of a standard van by removing a plastic cover plate, behind which cut-outs in the reinforcing member give access to the nuts. All familiar to any Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen service centre.

 

But, PVCs are no longer standard vans, with all kinds of furnishings and fixings built into the load space.! :-S

 

The access on our PVC involves removing an internal corner trim which incorporates two "cubby" holes, a small speaker, and a 230V socket, plus removing a small water tank access trap. The latter is easy, it is just retained by a spring latch. The former requires the removal of five screws, plus a certain amount of careful manoeuvring of the corner trim panel, disconnection of speaker leads, and pulling out the (fortunately long!) mains cable feeding the socket.

 

Having thus exposed the target, I had to get to the two rear light retaining nuts. The upper was (just) accessible via the water tank access trap, but required either a longish 17mm box spanner or socket plus ratchet driver and a short extension bar. I found there was just sufficient clearance between the nut and the rear of the water tank to achieve this!

 

I then needed to get to the lower nut - to which the conversion furniture provides no access! The access to the upper nut was too small to reach through, so the only way the lower nut could be reached was through a larger opening above, through which I could just insert my forearm and fish down past the upper nut to feel the lower one. It was also (just!) possible to see the lower nut in the void with the aid of a torch, but impossible to see it with my forearm inserted. So, feel was the only guide! 17mm ring spanner 1/12th of a turn at a time! If I'd dropped either the nut or the spanner they would have fallen to the bottom of the void, to which there is no access - though it might have been possible to "fish" them a magnet on a string? Hmmmmm!

 

The point of this tale is to raise awareness as, should a tail light bulb fail, you will need to be able to get to those fixing nuts one way or another. In view of the need to remove bits of the conversion to get access, I suspect no garage would take the job on unless the van was delivered with the conversion clutter removed - and even then might baulk at trying to access the near inaccessible nuts. Whatever, at current hourly rates it would be cheaper to replace all the bulbs in one hit rather than waiting for them to fail one at a time, necessitating repeated visits as each goes!

 

Alternatively, go to whoever sold you your van, and ask them to demonstrate how one is supposed to replace a failed rear light bulb. If enough dealers are asked often enough they just may persuade the converters, assuming others have been similarly careless with providing the necessary access, to modify their fit-out to facilitate access to the the rear light nuts!

 

So, if you have a SEVEL base PVC, do check that you can get to the rear light retaining nuts and, if you can't, talk to the dealer who sold it and ask them to show how it is done. In any event, don't wait until a bulb blows before you check! :-D

[Tracker]

Might be worth considering led bulbs if they are available Brian as their life is allegedly a lot longer than filament bulbs?

[Don636]

Similar problem on my van. Remove a padded cover which is held on by Velcro then remove a number of small screws holding on a trim piece over the light fitting access. These screws are actually hidden as they disappear into the fabric covering. Once this cover is off it was reasonably easy to access the fixing bolts to remove the light fitting. There must be a better way to deal with this.

[Deneb]

Vantage carpet around the access voids in the D-posts, and fit a decor panel over them, secured by four screws. Easy peasy.

 

But there can be several access issues on a conversion to a panel van. It could be much more difficult to access the fittings that secure the centre rail for the sliding door for instance, necessitating removal of various items of interior furniture. I have seen several PVCs in recovery compounds that have been written off by insurers with very minimal damage due to the difficulty in access for repair and/or finding suitable businesses to take on the work involved.

 

Edit: Don posted at the same time as me, but with a different perspective of a similar van. I suppose the easiest alternative is to retain the original Fiat cover panels, leaving them as unfinished grey or black plastic with grille vents, or paint them a more appealing colour, but probably less pleasing to prospective purchasers or owners looking for the right ambience in the living quarters!

[Don636]

I didn’t say getting at the bulbs was that difficult in a Vantage but the first problem was finding how the fabric covered panel was fixed as some of the screws were not visible as when screwed in they had disappeared from view into the fabric. After feeling around for them I then had to dig a screwdriver through the fabric such that when the screws are refined there are now holes in the fabric and the screw heads are now visible although they are behind the seat back cushions. Seemed a bit brutal at the time and I was a bit concerned that I was going to damage the trim. Just seems a bit crude really. Also some of the screws were fixed into plastic blocks that had to be added as the screws did not line up with the metal panels and they were a bit tricky to re-screw to as they were slightly distorted after the initial fixing.

[spirou]

Luckily our converter also owns a Peugeot dealership so it's their problem to fix

[ham]

I know 2 van owners who tried to convert to LEDs..

They had to revert back to pervoius bulbs..

When they fitted the Leds it altered the wattage.causing other lights to flash or not work.

This IS down to electrical circuits being controlled By the vehicle CCU.

They where advised by an Autoelectrcian it would need a reconfigure of the CCUs programm.

To add to this My Daughter has a Ford kuga and decided to change her caravan..

On collecting the caravan from a dealer they demonstrated all the lights worked ok whilst hooked up to thier landrover tow vehicle.How ever When the Kuga was connected none of the rear caravan lights woukd work and an engine warning light came on in the car.

After The electrics of the car where checked ok, the hookup plugs on the car where changed same on caravan the fault still remained. After 3 weeks of to and fro to the dealer.

I went with her to collect the Van ,Fault still there.

I suggested that they check all the 6 rear light bulbs, Why?.To check all had the same wattage.

Again Why. Your land rover has no Ccu the Kuga does .

What a suprise 2 bulds where higher than the other 2 And 1 was lower tha all 3 three.

So they changed them for LEDs still no lights.Then 6 new bulbs all the same wattage Taken of a van awaiting to be sold...To their suprise all lights worked..

After consulting Ford before we Went to pick the van they had suggested imbalance on the electrical circuit and the CCu Would see a failure as it looks for a set wattage on the circuit

 

[Deneb]

It's the resistance of the circuit that the ECU monitors as part of the bulb failure detection system. LED bulbs have a lower resistance so upset the system. It's possible to buy so called Canbus friendly LED bulbs with built in resistors, but all resistors generate heat which may not be desirable inside an enclosed lamp unit.

 

I'm not sure that they necessarily have any longevity advantage over filament bulbs. I see cars with failed LEDs in multi-LED lamps quite often, and I can only recall changing two filament bulbs in the four vehicles we run in at least the last 15 years.

 

On a side note, LED bulbs are no longer legal to be fitted in headlamp units intended for halogen filament bulbs. If the presence of an LED bulb is apparent to the tester, it is now a reason for failure during the annual MOT test.

[Deneb]

Don636 - 2021-02-23 8:32 PM

Also some of the screws were fixed into plastic blocks that had to be added as the screws did not line up with the metal panels and they were a bit tricky to re-screw to as they were slightly distorted after the initial fixing.

Sounds like they made a bit of a mess of fitting yours. Mine have four screws into the metal D-post surrounding the access holes. By pulling the cover panel back as you unscrew each screw, you can avoid it pulling through the covering fabric, and leaving the screws projecting a few mm through the panel makes it easy to line the top two up with the holes in the D-post. Once they are in place, the lower two screws are automatically inline with their fixing holes.

 

It's difficult to know what the converters could do the improve the situation, apart from making sure that the access holes are reasonably accessible, which they obviously aren't in some van designs. But van conversion is still pretty much a cottage industry, and unless the various converters were all to get together to manufacture a bespoke solution, I doubt any would individually have the resources to commission the manufacture of a properly designed cover in the limited quantities they would require.

 

Although I've never investigated at shows, I do wonder how vans with end washrooms, such as some Murvis, make provision for access, as well as vans like the IH's and some of the Vantage models that have a full width rear shelf behind the rear seats.

 

I've taken plenty of skin off of my hands and wrists, as well as drawing blood on quite a few occasions when removing similarly designed OEM fixings from the rear lamp units of various cars and vans over the years, so difficulty in access to change bulbs isn't just a motorhome conversion problem.

[Derek Uzzell]

Over the years there have been numerous “You cannot be serious...” online complaints about this issue. This is a 2018 Globecar-related MHFun example

 

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/changing-rear-light-cluster.181273/

 

It’s not just SEVEL vehicles either

 

https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/articles/practical-advice/motorhome-advice-how-to-replace-rear-bulbs-in-a-ford-camper

 

 

 

 

 

 

[witzend]

I after struggling to undo both of mine fitted all new bulbs and replaced the nuts with wing nuts and well greased the threads to make it easier for next time

[Gerry McG]

The sun was shining today so i went to have a look at how the bodywork / interior fittings affect the access to the rear light clusters on my 2016 X290 chassis Globecar 600L Revolution PVC.

 

The rear of the offside rear light cluster is reasonably accessible - the upper retaining bolt is a little bit awkward to reach due to the proximity of the water filler hose - but shouldn’t be an issue - i know the offsite rear light cluster has been off before as my alarm fitter has put an LED in there.

 

The near side cluster is less accessible due to the gas locker , however Globecar have put an access panel in the gas locker wall that is fixed by 6 screws, that once removed, provides reasonable access to the 2 retaining nuts on the nearside light cluster - i undid them and took the rear light cluster off and on to see how it worked (with no dramas)

 

Phew!