Importing Motorhome from Germany

[fripp]

I am being advised (by VCA and German dealer) that my new motorhome needs to be registered in Germany (at least for one day) prior to importing it into the UK. Can people who have done this before confirm this is the correct process. If this is done do I still fill in the V267 "Declaration that a vehicle is new"? As this asks that I confirm the vehicle has not been previously registered?

[Derek Uzzell]

DVLA advice on importing a vehicle to the UK is in this INF106 document

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/860938/inf106-how-to-import-a-vehicle-into-the-united-kingdom.pdf

 

and there’s a copy of Form V267 here

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/519020/Declaration-that-a-vehicle-is-new-V267.pdf

 

Form V267 has a footnote that says "I declare that the vehicle described in part A above, is a new vehicle which has not been permanently registered in any country before it was imported into the United Kingdom...”

 

In 2005 I bought a new Hobby motorhome from a German dealership and drove it back to the UK.

 

Page 5 of INF106 states that the importer of a new vehicle must provide (amongst other things)

 

- A filled-in form V267.

 

- Evidence showing the date you collected the vehicle (normally the date of the invoice from the supplier), and how the vehicle was brought into the country (either the temporary registration form if the vehicle was driven, or evidence of transportation if it was transported).

 

It’s certainly so that, if a motorhome were to be DRIVEN back to the UK from Germany by a private individual, it would normally go through the German TEMPORARY registration process that allows special ‘export’ registration plates and short-term 3rd-party insurance to be provided. This was what happened in my case and was arranged by the German dealer on the day I collected the motorhome. Plainly (as INF106 touches on) if a motorhome were to be TRANSPORTED to the UK, there would be no need to temporarily register it in Germany.

 

For imported motorhomes nowadays (though not in 2005 when I imported the Hobby) the VCA needs to be sent a completed "Application for Commission Notice / Mutual Recognition - Motorhomes” form (and a £100 fee)

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/917001/motorhomes-mutual-recognition.pdf

 

but I assume you are aware of this requirement.

[fripp]

Thanks for that and I think I may be just being caught in-between the wording on different forms with little definition of exactly what they mean. Where VCA are requesting a vehicle which has been previously registered and DVLA are requesting a vehicle which has not been 'permanently registered'. According to VCA there are two routes to recognition for imported vehicles.

 

1) Obtain a physical IVA inspection with the DVSA here in the UK.

2) Register the vehicle in Germany first before using VCA further type approval scheme.

 

I have only ever seen option 2) being described by private motorhome importers on this and other forums. This is the process where the headlights, speedo and fog lights are changed and a local garage can confirm works. But I have not seen anyone comment on the 'Register in the original country" part of this. It feels like this may have been done by the dealer in order to get transit plates without the purchaser being involved or aware of the registration part of this.

[Derek Uzzell]

This 2017 forum thread MIGHT help...

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Certificate-of-conformity/47940/

 

(Are you going to have the motorhome transported from Germany, or drive it back to the UK yourself?)

[fripp]

I am driving it back at the start of September from Germany (EU travel rules willing). The reason for me digging further into this is that the dealer informed me they needed to register the vehicle before I picked it up. And they said their name would appear on the registration document (German I would assume) as the first keeper. I wanted to try and confirm this was the correct process and it would not affect the DVLA 'newness' or my 71 registration plate when I register it in the UK after 1st September.

[Derek Uzzell]

When I collected a LHD Hobby motorhome from the German dealer in 2005, the vehicle was unregistered to begin with.

 

Where the German 'export' registration plates would be produced was in a basic facility (a big shed) nearby, but the German Vehicle Registration Department was some distance away in a larger town. The itinerary involved the German dealer driving the motorhome (with me in the passenger seat) to the shed where various documents were checked, then off to the Vehicle Registration Department (more document checking and a brief inspection of the motorhome) then back to the shed where the registration plates were made and 3rd-party Insurance purchased - and I needed to make payments at each stage. The process was quite complex and not something I would have wanted to attempt myself, so this could explain why your German dealership might prefer to register your motorhome in their name in advance of you collecting it.

 

Plainly, as you are going to drive the motorhome back to the UK, the vehicle should carry export registration plates and it should be insured - and I would have thought it ought to be German registered/insured with you as the named owner. However, I don't think the motorhome having been temporarily registered in the German dealership's name would affect its 'newness' as far as the DVLA is concerned.

 

(If you are buying from a German dealership that has plenty of experience of selling to UK buyers, you should perhaps ask if the 'dealership registration' procedure is what they habitually do. I don't know if it is 'correct' or not, just that it wasn't used in my case.)

[fripp]

Yes that all sounds how it should be when I think it through. It would not make sense for the German authorities to let an 'unregistered' vehicle drive on there roads. However just looking at the VCA/DVLA forms, which I do not believe have changed since you completed them, none of them seem to ask for the German registration documents. Just the dealer invoice, COC's and VCA/DVLA completed forms. So I don't know how they would know if it had been registered in Germany or not. DVLA seem to take the invoice date as the first registration date, as long as I complete a V267 newness form.

[Brian Kirby]

I hope this won't cause you further confusion, but memory tells me that the issue of "newness" is largely to do with liability for UK VAT, and the definition of when a vehicle may be regarded as "used", and not therefore liable for UK VAT.

 

At the time I imported from France (also 2005, coincidentally) the French dealer was reluctant to sell the vehicle ex VAT (understandably, because if I failed to pay UK VAT on importation to UK, he remained liable to pay the French VAT!), so asked me to write him a € cheque for the VAT (to cover his potential liability should I default), which he would hold until I had supplied him with the official receipt from HMRC confirming payment of UK VAT. Once I'd sent him the official HMRC receipt, he destroyed the cheque.

 

Newness, depended, again from memory, on whether the vehicle had covered more than 6,000 miles from first registration, or had been registered more than 6 months before being imported into UK. If either limit had passed it was used, so not a "new means of transport" (NMT), and if neither had passed it was, for HMRC purposes, an NMT and attracted UK VAT.

 

Of course, 2005 was before Brexit, so it is entirely possible that new procedures are now in force - in which case my apologies for raising a red herring!

[fripp]

I can see that. As DVLA will use the newness to refuse to issue a license plate number if VAT has not been paid to HMRC.

 

But it still seems that the first registered date on my V5 will come from the dealer invoice date and not any date that the vehicle was registered, temporary or not, in Germany.

 

I have now arranged to have the German registration process after 1st Sept so it should not be an issue for me anyway. But originally the dealer wanted to do the temporary registration in August and I was unsure if this would affect my license plate 21 vs 71.

[Mursheen Durkin]

Hello

This is my first post on the forum, so may I initially say hello, and thank you for all the informative threads and posts.

We are looking at importing a new van (probably an Adria Twin) from Germany so I would be very interested in hearing from anyone who has done this post Brexit, and from last January in particular. I don't know whether I should be starting a new thread on this but saw this one so resurrected it.

Thank you!

[Derek Uzzell]

Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums.

 

Forum-member "fripp" should have imported his motorhome by now and - if he spots your enquiry - should be able to offer up-to-date advice.

 

I notice that the same thing was discussed on the MHFun forum in an April-July 2021 thread that may be of interest

 

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/importing-new-pvc-from-germany-post-brexit.239972/

 

 

[Mursheen Durkin]

Thank you Derek, that is very helpful. Strangely that thread didn’t crop up when I was searching. Fripp responded to a PM and has indeed imported his motorhome.

[jimbo07g41]

I imported my camper van back in 2015 from Germany. Due to me driving it back home, I paid for a temp German registration and this included insurance. I stopped off in the Netherlands and a Police Officer told me the insurance was not valid once I left Germany. Not sure whether he just wanted me to move on, as there was a big bike race on! You can purchase insurance with just the chassis number in this country.

 

Make sure you have the base vehicle paperwork and the convertors paperwork. My process was a little easier as La Strada sold my model of van in the UK but I still needed the Conformity certificate from the manufacturer. The registration process was not too difficult but I didnt need to worry about Vat, as it was second hand.

[Mursheen Durkin]

My understanding is that post Brexit, VAT and Import tax (10%) is payable on second hand, although I could have this wrong. The situation is better on new vans in that, although VAT is payable, they are in effect duty free in the EU country. I understand that the VAT in Germany (in this case) would be refunded on confirmation that UK vat has been paid.

[fripp]

You need to get the German dealer to make the sale to you as an 'export sale'. This will incur no local VAT and will negate the need to reclaim any German VAT. The UK is no longer part of the common VAT scheme in the EU and reclaim could be problematic. This is what I did in Sept 2021. It is a different process from what the German dealers are used to but is the correct way to make a sale to a third country such as the UK now. The other processes on the UK are much the same as before.

 

My experience is on purchasing a new vehicle so cannot comment on used purchases.

 

[Brian Kirby]

jimbo07g41 - 2022-01-25 8:49 PM

I imported my camper van back in 2015 from Germany. Due to me driving it back home, I paid for a temp German registration and this included insurance. .........................

Make sure you have the base vehicle paperwork and the convertors paperwork. My process was a little easier as La Strada sold my model of van in the UK but I still needed the Conformity certificate from the manufacturer. ............................

Things have changed since 2015, not least due to Brexit.

On the registration/insurance issue you will need to check carefully with the German dealer that they are aware of the post Brexit arrangements. You will need German "export" plates which should cover the van (almost invariably for third party only risks) within Germany and the EU. This will involve the temporary registration of the vehicle in Germany.

 

You should also receive a document that confirms you as the legal owner. In Germany the registration plates belong to the owner, and not to the vehicle, so that when vehicles are traded the plates are removed by the owner and transferred to their new vehicle. Hence the need for the declaration of ownership.

 

I believe that since Brexit the insurance accompanying those plates may no longer be valid in UK. Don't be swayed by the advice that the temporary German plates should be removed before driving on UK roads. A LHD German van with German plates is not remarkable: the same van with no plates at all is, and would be highly likely to attract the attention of the police!

 

You will need to insure the vehicle for use on UK roads before you get it to UK, so that you have the "cover note" with you as proof of insurance in case it is required. A few UK insurers will provide UK cover on imports against a chassis number, but last I heard this is a concession from the insurer, who is legally obliged to register all vehicles they insure on the Motor Insurers' Database (MID) within a fixed period of time from issuing the cover. If they fail to formalise the MID entry within the required time, they get into trouble, so in doing this they take a risk on you. You'll need to check with your present insurer whether they will play ball, otherwise enquire elsewhere. Comfort, for one, used to be familiar with this procedure.

 

The knock-on problem this presents for you, is that to regularise the MID entry the vehicle must first be UK registered and have received its UK registration number, and even in normal times the period allowed between sale of the insurance and entry of the reg. no. on the MID is "tight" against the time DVLA will take to complete registration. This arises in part because the MID cannot accept chassis numbers. Under present circumstances, you may be wise to arrange off-road storage for the van during the registration process - just in case. This will need to be confirmed to your insurer.

 

For registration, you'll need to provide proof that that the speedometer and all relevant lighting has been changed to be UK compliant. I understand receipts for the necessary items are no longer accepted as evidence of actual change, so a garage invoice is required. This means driving the van to a garage. Insurance again.

 

I believe you then need to drive the van to a VOSA inspection (although I understand this may be possible at MoT test stations) for official confirmation that it is as described, before DVLA will begin. Insurance again.

 

So, you will need to get all your ducks in a row, to be able to jump the lighting + speedometer and fitting, plus VOSA inspection, hurdles as quickly as possible after you get it home, to enable you to submit the registration application to DVLA quickly, so allowing them the maximum time before your insurer's MID period of grace expires!

 

I believe most of the above is correct, but they are all points to check and confirm before going too far. Please correct anything that proves incorrect as the updates will be valuable for anyone else contemplating a personal import.

 

Just as an aside, you may find things somewhat easier if you can identify a dealer with premises nearer to one of the Channel ports/Chunnel. Our first van was from Calais Caravanes, in Calais (since changed hands and now Hymer group vans only), and for delivery he simply obtained and fitted temporary French registration plates, put on his trade plates, and drive us to the Chunnel entrance on his insurance so that we could take over for the UK leg.

 

Hope this is of some help.

[slowdriver]

I ordered a new PVC in October 2019 and imported it directly from the dealer in May 2020 within the Brexit transition period, so the old EU rules applied. It was, for the most part, straight forward.

However because of Covid I was unable to go and do a local shakedown, two day run around Munich, where the dealer was based and then drive the the vehicle back to the UK.

As a result the vehicle was delivered by a German transport company (BLG AutoTransport GmbH & Co. KG). The German dealership organised this for me. The van was delivered direct to the garage (Left Hand Drive Centre in Basingstoke) who were going to do the necessary technical work (changing the front lights and the speedo dial) and also took care of all the paperwork VOSA/DVLA that Brian mentioned.

 

You may find that this is a less painful experience (but maybe not cheaper), than trying to get insurance on the vehicle from the European dealership to the channel port in France (in all cases I investigated this could only be 3rd party cover) and then further insurance in the UK for transport from the channel port to the garage or your home address. Without an UK registration plate I could not find any insurer in the UK who would provide cover from the UK channel port, to my home address and then onto the garage that was going to undertake the work. Trying to insure based on the Vin number was possible but only to my home OR to the garage but not from one to the other.

So Covid in that sense delivered a bonus in that if forced me to go down the car-transporter route and forced me to settle on a garage that could both undertake all the tech work and also do all the paperwork. LHD centre are well plugged in to DVLA which meant the paperwork got turned around in two to three weeks rather than the three to six months I was anticipating with Covid.

 

 

[slowdriver]

Brian Kirby - 2022-01-26 12:42 PM

 

jimbo07g41 - 2022-01-25 8:49 PM

I imported my camper van back in 2015 from Germany. Due to me driving it back home, I paid for a temp German registration and this included insurance. .........................

Make sure you have the base vehicle paperwork and the convertors paperwork. My process was a little easier as La Strada sold my model of van in the UK but I still needed the Conformity certificate from the manufacturer. ............................

Things have changed since 2015, not least due to Brexit.

On the registration/insurance issue you will need to check carefully with the German dealer that they are aware of the post Brexit arrangements. You will need German "export" plates which should cover the van (almost invariably for third party only risks) within Germany and the EU. This will involve the temporary registration of the vehicle in Germany

 

You should also receive a document that confirms you as the legal owner. In Germany the registration plates belong to the owner, and not to the vehicle, so that when vehicles are traded the plates are removed by the owner and transferred to their new vehicle. Hence the need for the declaration of ownership.

 

I believe that since Brexit the insurance accompanying those plates may no longer be valid in UK. Don't be swayed by the advice that the temporary German plates should be removed before driving on UK roads. A LHD German van with German plates is not remarkable: the same van with no plates at all is, and would be highly likely to attract the attention of the police!

 

I was told by the dealer selling my van (also co-incidently a La Strada) that the German export plates would only cover me up to the French channel port and would explicitly not cover me in the UK.

 

You will need to insure the vehicle for use on UK roads before you get it to UK, so that you have the "cover note" with you as proof of insurance in case it is required. A few UK insurers will provide UK cover on imports against a chassis number, but last I heard this is a concession from the insurer, who is legally obliged to register all vehicles they insure on the Motor Insurers' Database (MID) within a fixed period of time from issuing the cover. If they fail to formalise the MID entry within the required time, they get into trouble, so in doing this they take a risk on you. You'll need to check with your present insurer whether they will play ball, otherwise enquire elsewhere. Comfort, for one, used to be familiar with this procedure.

 

Safeguard Insurance would insure on a VIN but only from a single point to point, i.e. from the UK channel port to either my home OR the garage undertaking the conversion work. They would not insure from Channel Port --> Home ---> Garage undertaking work.

 

 

........

For registration, you'll need to provide proof that that the speedometer and all relevant lighting has been changed to be UK compliant. I understand receipts for the necessary items are no longer accepted as evidence of actual change, so a garage invoice is required. This means driving the van to a garage. Insurance again.

 

A garage invoice is required with the VAT registered address of the business and their VAT number. It must list the work undertaken and that if I recall correctly OEM parts have been used. (not cheap for 2020 Ducato lights)

 

 

I believe you then need to drive the van to a VOSA inspection (although I understand this may be possible at MoT test stations) for official confirmation that it is as described, before DVLA will begin. Insurance again.

 

I don't think the vehicle has to be presented for a VOSA inspection if a VAT registered MOT certified garage undertakes the work. You simply need their invoice showing their VAT number and that the work has been completed using certified OEM parts. In my case the garage were handling the paperwork and so sent it in for me.for

 

So, you will need to get all your ducks in a row, to be able to jump the lighting + speedometer and fitting, plus VOSA inspection, hurdles as quickly as possible after you get it home, to enable you to submit the registration application to DVLA quickly, so allowing them the maximum time before your insurer's MID period of grace expires!

 

I believe most of the above is correct, but they are all points to check and confirm before going too far. Please correct anything that proves incorrect as the updates will be valuable for anyone else contemplating a personal import.

 

Just as an aside, you may find things somewhat easier if you can identify a dealer with premises nearer to one of the Channel ports/Chunnel. Our first van was from Calais Caravanes, in Calais (since changed hands and now Hymer group vans only), and for delivery he simply obtained and fitted temporary French registration plates, put on his trade plates, and drive us to the Chunnel entrance on his insurance so that we could take over for the UK leg.

 

Hope this is of some help.

 

I think, given the complications, investigating the costs of outsourcing the transportation and/or conversion and/or paperwork may be worthwhile. They are not insignificant. However I suspect the import tax may be a bigger issue.

 

This was not something that I needed to consider since I managed it all by July 2020, within the extended Brexit Transition period. Do please update as more information becomes available. The combination of transport or insurance, outsourced conversion work (or garage certification if you do it yourself) , paperwork (if you outsource it) and import duty may finally make importing from Europe no longer a viable option if the objective is to save money.

 

I did it mainly because I had settled on a van that was significantly :'( more expensive than most Panel Van Conversions (PVC) because of its build quality, configuration, and customisation options, and was not sold in the UK. So I was prepared to come out about flat or pay a small premium compared to buying a similarly high specced PVC in the UK. The exchange rate now is probably marginally better than when I purchased mine, but of course, a shadow of it's pre-Brexit position.

Sadly there was, when I imported, no La Strada dealership in the UK and as far as I know there is not now.

 

It's not a decision I regret. I have completed 14k miles mostly in Europe in 20 months, during COVID, and I'm off for five weeks next week. The van has been great so far - (fingers crossed)

 

[fripp]

I did all of the work (lights changed to UK, fog light/reversing light swap, Speedo legend change) myself and then took the van to my local garage (happens to be MOT test centre but this is not necessary if you read VCA notes) for them to check work had been completed correctly. They completed a letter I drafted for them with their details, and I sent this to VCA with their forms. All accepted by them.

[Mursheen Durkin]

Thank you all for these extremely detailed thoughts and information. I think import tax is not payable on a new van. For me keeping it insured to the garage, and until it is UK registered will be the biggest challenge. Maybe Belgium might be a better idea than Germany. Thanks again

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks for the updates Chris. We think we've bought our last - but you never know! :-D

[jimbo07g41]

fripp - 2022-01-27 8:54 AM

 

I did all of the work (lights changed to UK, fog light/reversing light swap, Speedo legend change) myself and then took the van to my local garage (happens to be MOT test centre but this is not necessary if you read VCA notes) for them to check work had been completed correctly. They completed a letter I drafted for them with their details, and I sent this to VCA with their forms. All accepted by them.

 

This is what I did. There are kits available to change the clocks. I purchased UK headlights and swapped them over myself and then got the van through its MOT. The MK7 van has fog lights and reversing lights on both sides, so no problems there.