Cattwg Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 I've been reading the 'Danger when draining down water system' posting - an unfortunate insurance saga. One of the OP's replies is "My question to them was. If the 3rd party does not notify his insurance AXA commercial within the 16 days what happens. She said it becomes a no fault." Does this actually mean that if you are involved in a traffic accident and the other party does not report it to their insurance company then they and their insurance company can simply act as though the incident never happened? Hopefully I've misunderstood the post. Cattwg :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 You’ve not misunderstood the post. It would seem to be a very clever way of not excepting responsibility. It would seem the insurance company with all the evidence do not have to except there client to be at fault. They have to wait the 16 days before it would seem for them to shrug there shoulders. It’s unbelievable and very very stressful. My wife like an easy life with no confrontation, and doesn’t like me ringing my insurance and getting red in the face. Partly because they can tie me up in knots. It’s been great with some of the response to my posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 This link is to an AXA Accident Guide Link to Axa It seems plain from the advice in the “Take down the details” paragraph that AXA requires a policy holder to provide them with accident details. In Den’s case, although the van driver might decide to not claim against his own insurance policy, there’s no doubt that he was involved in an accident with another vehicle and (although AXA might tolerate a 16-day interval for reporting that accident to them) the obligation remains for the van driver to provide details of the accident to AXA. When I worked for the Post Office I dealt for a while with accidents involving Post Office vehicles. I‘ve also had first-hand experience of vehicle accidents where the insurance outcome has been very unexpected. It’s an unkind thing to say, but I honestly believe that Den is well out of his depth with this incident and really needs to step back from trying to progress the matter himself and obtain professional advice and assistance as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1951Pete Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 Den - 2018-11-07 10:39 PM You’ve not misunderstood the post. It would seem to be a very clever way of not excepting responsibility. It would seem the insurance company with all the evidence do not have to except there client to be at fault. They have to wait the 16 days before it would seem for them to shrug there shoulders. It’s unbelievable and very very stressful. My wife like an easy life with no confrontation, and doesn’t like me ringing my insurance and getting red in the face. Partly because they can tie me up in knots. It’s been great with some of the response to my posting. We had a similar problem with a car accident many years ago. The other parties insurance company finally advised their client that they had been advised he had been involved in an accident resulting in a third party claim. They told him he was in breach of the insurance contract by not reporting and his insurance was being cancelled if he did not report it within seven days. Not surprisingly he immediately reported the accident and our claim got processed. My advice is to use your legal cover on your motor insurance if you have it. If not use your home legal cover. A letter from their solicitor works much better than loads of phone calls from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 It may be obvious, but video evidence from a good dashcam can be vital, it can be accepted by the Police as evidence now as well. Following a hit and run incident ( my wife's car was hit in the back whilst stationary) I intend to fit a rear mounted camera as well. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 hallii - 2018-11-08 11:46 AM It may be obvious, but video evidence from a good dashcam can be vital, it can be accepted by the Police as evidence now as well. Following a hit and run incident ( my wife's car was hit in the back whilst stationary) I intend to fit a rear mounted camera as well. H Agree! But as this was a side on accident, it probably would not have helped! We have a dash cam, and it reads forwards only! PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 It’s an unkind thing to say, but I honestly believe that Den is well out of his depth with this incident and really needs to step back from trying to progress the matter himself and obtain professional advice and assistance as soon as possible. Have to agree with Derek. Emotions get in the way, and stress at not being able to carry on with your plans to get away! i doubt this will be a quick claim to settle , as we know from experience PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 As there seems to be plenty of supporting evidence that the crash was the fault of the third party driver a suitably worded recorded delivery letter from a legal authority holding him personally responsible for the damage and all consequential losses, including as a result of his actions post crash, and spelling out the cost that will be claimed for against him personally in court might focus his mind. I would be inclined to seek advice and clarification both from the police and from my own insurers at this point. I am not a legal expert but there may be a driving uninsured angle if he fails to report the crash to his insurers and they void his cover as a result? As others have said, now is the time to seek expert guidance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 Tracker - 2018-11-08 12:49 PM I am not a legal expert but there may be a driving uninsured angle if he fails to report the crash to his insurers and they void his cover as a result? . There is, its the MIB (Motor Insurers Bureau). See link but its not lightweight reading and not for most laymen!! https://www.mib.org.uk/making-a-claim/claiming-against-an-uninsured-driver/uninsured-drivers-agreements/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cattwg Posted November 8, 2018 Author Share Posted November 8, 2018 I appreciate that Den has a very annoying and difficult situation. My concern from his ‘no fault’ post was that under the scenario of no independent witnesses then by taking no action the 3rd party could abdicate all responsibility. Even if the aggrieved person advises the 3rd person’s insurance company then it is not obliged to pursue the case. The only recourse then being a legal one. Surely this cannot be the way motor insurance is meant to work? Cattwg :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 It seems there is a nasty little flaw in the legal insurance obligations. Following an accident the parties must exchange names and addresses of the drivers (and if different, the vehicle owners) plus the registration numbers of the vehicles. If that cannot take place at the time, both are obliged to submit this information to a police station within 24 hours. If any party has not fully complied, then he is deemed guilty of having absconded from the scene of the accident, which is a criminal offence under statute law. Unless there is injury to either party, there is no legal obligation under statute law to provide insurance details. This information can be requested by anyone with a reasonable right to know, but identification of the person with a "reasonable right" is not further defined. The flaw? There is no statutory obligation on the insured to advise the insurer of the accident, and/or no statutory obligation on the insurer to notify their insured that they have received a claim against him, which they will proceed to settle on his behalf unless he responds saying why they should not. In fact, the other driver in this case did all that was required, including providing insurance details, so there is no legal default under statute at this point (except possibly if the vehicle in question does not belong to him, where he will be in default of his legal obligations if he did not, within the 24 hour time frame, provide the legal owner's name and address). Plainly, the reason drivers are legally obliged to have third party liability insurance is so that, in the event of an accident where liability is clear, one party can claim compensation from the other and the costs will be met under this obligatory insurance. Notwithstanding this statutory requirement to have insurance, the legal liability for the accident lies with the person who is deemed at fault; not with his insurance company, and the other party cannot directly claim against his insurance. There is a legal obligation to notify one's insurer of an accident, but this arises under contract (not statute) law - in that the insurance policy (notwithstanding the legal obligation to have it), is a private contract between an insurance company and their insured party. So, if the insured person does not advise his insurer of the accident (whatever the information he may have provided at the scene), the insurer has no authority under the contract to act in his stead to settle the claim. It therefore seems it is necessary for Dennis to formally serve notice on the other driver, and separately his insurer, that he is held liable for all the consequences of the accident (including repair of his vehicle, all consequential losses, any as yet undiscovered injury (e.g. whiplash) compensation for loss of holiday and resulting costs, vehicle hire, his legal costs etc. etc.). These letters need to be worded correctly, in the correct order, using the correct language - which as I (and several others) have suggested above, needs a lawyer to write them. Otherwise, the insurance claim will be settled under Dennis' insurance as a "no-blame" incident but, as he will then have made a claim he will be liable (under the terms of his insurance) to loss of no claims discount plus his claims record will then have changed, so increasing his perceived risk profile, resulting in his renewal premium also rising. Unless the other driver has already broken his silence and advised Axa of his involvement in the accident, that is where I think Dennis stands at present. This is, IMO grossly unfair, and is why I think Dennis should take legal advice as soon as possible. If the other driver has any sense, the letters will be all that is required to shake him/Axa into action. If they do not, they open Dennis' right to proceed legally to gain full compensation which, as the other driver has the necessary third party cover, will fall to be met by Axa in accordance with the court's eventual award. This last sentence needs checking by Dennis with his lawyer. It is my understanding of what should happen, based on what I have read - but I'm not a lawyer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cattwg Posted November 8, 2018 Author Share Posted November 8, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-11-08 4:54 PM It seems there is a nasty little flaw in the legal insurance obligations …... The flaw? There is no statutory obligation on the insured to advise the insurer of the accident, and/or no statutory obligation on the insurer to notify their insured that they have received a claim against him, which they will proceed to settle on his behalf unless he responds saying why they should not. My thoughts exactly Brian. It seems a strange way to structure the legislation so that ultimately the only sure way to settle an insurance claim is via the courts. John :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 We have a camera and this did not pick up the vehicle that hit us, and on impact the camera only pick up a tall hedge on our near side. The 3 rd party has still not notified his insurance and the claim is still going through my insurance. So I have to pay £250 and they did say hire a vehicle and you may have this reimbursed. With some doubt. It’s not worth the stress of trying to recoup our costs. I’m contacting the claims management company today to see what they can do to assist. The second he said he was with axa, with us being with axa to I thought this is going to be difficult. I can see the MH still in the garage come January, our next holiday in the MH back to Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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