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Interesting Petition


GJH

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A new petition has been created urging the CAMC to look at alternative provision for motorhomes on the basis that they need less facilities than are provided by existing sites and located closer to towns.

 

It makes an interesting suggestion that existing sites might suffer if (towed) caravan sales decline as a result of lack of availability of suitable tow cars.

 

Assuming that it receives sufficient support, I would hope that the CAMC would provide a reasoned response (whether positive or negative), based on constructive thought, rather than simply ignoring it.

 

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/parking-for-motorhomes-similar-to-the-french-style-of-aire-de-camping-car

 

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Looking at the photo in the petition, it's definitely not what I want. I want a safe distance between me and the other vans when they are 'camping' as opposed to just parking.

 

I can see numerous comments in the petition about what we motorhomers want but very little on the benefit to the CMC which is expected to spend the money and nothing about CLs who provide an element of this service. The CMC is already spending £13m this year on sites and has £14m of spend planned for next year [or the other way around] including increased hard standing and new motorhome service points [as requested by motorhome members]. Therefore, the proposal from the petitioners will have to be in the 2020 spending plan.

 

The CMC has a recognised path for members to raise matters with the hierarchy. The petition ignores this path. Neither does the petition ask for members to add their membership number when signing up. I cannot see the CMC's current priorities will include listening to the views of non members.

 

I support the idea of dedicated areas for overnighting motorhomes. I hope the CMC will look into this but with the range of stakeholders it has to satisfy, I'm not convinced a positive outcome will result. As a member of the CMC, I won't be signing the petition as it stands.

 

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Interesting observations by Brock and whilst I agree with him on many points I reached a different conclusion.

Let's work towards getting the principle of any sort of Aires for the UK accepted first and worry about the hows and wheres afterwards and in that respect I think the petition is well worth signing if only to keep the matter in the eyes of those who can, but are unlikely to help.

Doing nothing will achieve nothing.

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Brock - 2018-08-04 2:32 PM

 

I support the idea of dedicated areas for overnighting motorhomes. I hope the CMC will look into this but with the range of stakeholders it has to satisfy, I'm not convinced a positive outcome will result. As a member of the CMC, I won't be signing the petition as it stands.

 

 

I too support the idea too, in principle - but this " petition " ( actually written more like a demand ) is unlikely to be looked on favourably by the CAMC.

 

More of a complaint about the club than anything else.

 

So I won't be signing this one either .

 

:-(

 

 

 

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Can't see it doing any good. Both the CAMC and the C&CC have both got involved with objections when there have been moves by Councils etc. to set up overnight parking areas for Motorhomes.

 

A Leopard does not change its spots.

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747 - 2018-08-04 3:34 PM

 

Can't see it doing any good. Both the CAMC and the C&CC have both got involved with objections when there have been moves by Councils etc. to set up overnight parking areas for Motorhomes.

 

A Leopard does not change its spots.

 

 

A leopard has also never been known to shoot itself in the foot.

 

;-)

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747 - 2018-08-04 3:34 PM

 

Both the CAMC and the C&CC have both got involved with objections when there have been moves by Councils etc. to set up overnight parking areas for Motorhomes.

I've seen that sort of allegation previously but I have never actually seen any documented instances. Can you point me to an example or two please.

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EJB - 2018-08-04 5:08 PM

 

That's a good idea!...Like aires or Stellplatze….wonder what happened to the thousands of petitions before it?

 

 

I think a lot were sent to the government - who are not responsible for parking, and the rest presumably failed to convince local authourities of the economic benefits of setting them up - and maintaining them.

 

 

:-(

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No doubt the originators of the petition mean well and hopefully if this one fails to move mountains they will be motivated enough to try again having learnt from their first attempt.

I wish them well as it is very easy to sit and criticise and yell 'why don't THEY do something' from the comfort of your armchair rather than get up and do something and I for one admire anyone with the get up and go to at least try.

And I still think a lending of support at it's very worst does nobody any harm so even though I will not benefit I do not sit behind a keyboard and condemn others for having a go.

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Tracker - 2018-08-04 5:45 PM

 

No doubt the originators of the petition mean well and hopefully if this one fails to move mountains they will be motivated enough to try again having learnt from their first attempt.

I wish them well as it is very easy to sit and criticise and yell 'why don't THEY do something' from the comfort of your armchair rather than get up and do something and I for one admire anyone with the get up and go to at least try.

And I still think a lending of support at it's very worst does nobody any harm so even though I will not benefit I do not sit behind a keyboard and condemn others for having a go.

Which more or less sums up why I started the thread in the first place :-D

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The two major 'Clubs' like to publicise themselves as 'clubs' but in reality they are businesses for which 'members' pay for services just like any other customer of any other business.

Turkeys are more likely to vote for Christmas than these 'clubs' are to vote for any form of camping that might reduce their site income.

That's an observation not a criticism as I don't blame these companies for using the system to enhance their income or their reluctance to see anything change.

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Tracker - 2018-08-04 6:21 PM

 

The two major 'Clubs' like to publicise themselves as 'clubs' but in reality they are businesses for which 'members' pay for services just like any other customer of any other business.

Turkeys are more likely to vote for Christmas than these 'clubs' are to vote for any form of camping that might reduce their site income.

That is why I found the suggestion of motorhome usage taking the place of caravans because of restricted tow car availability interesting.

If that were to happen then the clubs would find demand changing and a potential need to change their business models.

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GJH - 2018-08-04 6:30 PM

That is why I found the suggestion of motorhome usage taking the place of caravans because of restricted tow car availability interesting.

If that were to happen then the clubs would find demand changing and a potential need to change their business models.

 

It's an interesting possibility as it seems that electric cars make poor tow cars, and petrol/electric hybrids are not wonderful, if the makers even recommend it which many don't, and pure petrol is far less economical than diesel as tow car power, as well as pollution levels when towing anything, so one does indeed have to wonder where tow cars will come from in years to come - but then again less caravans will only mean more space for motorhomes on sites so the focus may shift but will the attitude to non site camping?

Somehow I doubt it?

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GJH - 2018-08-04 4:04 PM

 

747 - 2018-08-04 3:34 PM

 

Both the CAMC and the C&CC have both got involved with objections when there have been moves by Councils etc. to set up overnight parking areas for Motorhomes.

I've seen that sort of allegation previously but I have never actually seen any documented instances. Can you point me to an example or two please.

 

I can have a try later on to find something. If 'maureenandtom' are members on here, they are active campaigners and would be able to give you instances where this has happened.

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The argument in the petition’s “Why is this important?” section is that future cars will be incapable of towing large caravans and (for some unexplained reason) this will negatively inpact on current UK campsites.

 

It seems to me that, if future cars won’t be able to tow large caravans, current and potential caravanners will need to use smaller caravans and, as a consequence, there will be more space on campsites. If people decide not to take that approach and opt for a motorhome instead, all that would mean is that a campsite would have motorhomes on pitches instead of caravans and, as a motorhome generally takes up less ground-area than a caravan ‘outfit’, even more space on a campsite would become available.

 

Two things will change campsite usage and/or vehicle choice - the move away from use of caravan/motorhome travelling and a move towards campsites concentrating on chalets and static caravans (happenig a lot in France and presumably this is what the reference to “glamping units” is about) and (totally predictable) the age-related reduction in the number of UK motorists with a driving-licence entitlement permitting them to drive a heavyweight ‘outfit’ or an over-3500kg motorhome.

 

This petition is nothing to do with “legacy caravan sites that just won’t be suitable for our (ie. motorcaravan owners’) use” - it’s the same old argument that a motorhome’s perceived autonomy makes caravan sites largely redundant and what’s needed is UK-wide access to unregulated low-cost urban 24/7 parking with motorhome ‘servicing’ facilities. It’s just another “We need aires!” bleat, except this time the CMC is expected to do the proviiding rather than local authorities.

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Why would an organisation like the C-MC have any interest in redesigning their sites for the benefit of a group of travellers who largely have no interest in staying on commercial campsites?

And why would Local Authorities allocate scarce funds to a system like aires, even if they could make a charge.?

Central government is not very interested in Local Government finances, other than progressively reducing them to zero.

I would support a petition to the clubs to establish a more fair system of charging for a pitch though. Even a simple 2:3 ratio for van + awning to caravan+ awning + tow vehicle.

But this is not the purpose of the petition;so I won’t be supporting. And I don’t think it’s a very interesting argument.

 

Regards

Snowie

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Derek Uzzell - 2018-08-05 9:15 AM

 

The argument in the petition’s “Why is this important?” section is that future cars will be incapable of towing large caravans and (for some unexplained reason) this will negatively inpact on current UK campsites.

 

It seems to me that, if future cars won’t be able to tow large caravans, current and potential caravanners will need to use smaller caravans and, as a consequence, there will be more space on campsites. If people decide not to take that approach and opt for a motorhome instead, all that would mean is that a campsite would have motorhomes on pitches instead of caravans and, as a motorhome generally takes up less ground-area than a caravan ‘outfit’, even more space on a campsite would become available.

 

Two things will change campsite usage and/or vehicle choice - the move away from use of caravan/motorhome travelling and a move towards campsites concentrating on chalets and static caravans (happenig a lot in France and presumably this is what the reference to “glamping units” is about) and (totally predictable) the age-related reduction in the number of UK motorists with a driving-licence entitlement permitting them to drive a heavyweight ‘outfit’ or an over-3500kg motorhome.

 

This petition is nothing to do with “legacy caravan sites that just won’t be suitable for our (ie. motorcaravan owners’) use” - it’s the same old argument that a motorhome’s perceived autonomy makes caravan sites largely redundant and what’s needed is UK-wide access to unregulated low-cost urban 24/7 parking with motorhome ‘servicing’ facilities. It’s just another “We need aires!” bleat, except this time the CMC is expected to do the proviiding rather than local authorities.

I was interested to see properly reasoned arguments from both sides. At least you did that rather than just a knee jerk reaction seen on another forum :-)

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In the CMC's current strategy are the sentences, "The Club’s strategy work was very conscious of all that was changing in the World, such as with vehicles and vehicle technology. The Club also recognised the need to broaden its accommodation offering to ensure that it was moving in tandem with the market."

 

The leisure industry is fairly settled at present so there is no reason for the CMC to change the current strategy of investing in sites in line with the consultation it did with members in 2016 and the informed assessment of the leisure market it undertook.

 

However, looking to the future, there is a possibility that the dynamics of holidaying in the UK and on the Continent may change. The Club will have to respond. If the petition was reworded and signed by CMC members, then there is a chance the CMC will pay attention as part of their strategic plans beyond 2019 [budgets for this year and next year are already set].

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Tracker - 2018-08-04 5:45 PM

 

No doubt the originators of the petition mean well and hopefully if this one fails to move mountains they will be motivated enough to try again having learnt from their first attempt.

I wish them well as it is very easy to sit and criticise and yell 'why don't THEY do something' from the comfort of your armchair rather than get up and do something and I for one admire anyone with the get up and go to at least try.

And I still think a lending of support at it's very worst does nobody any harm so even though I will not benefit I do not sit behind a keyboard and condemn others for having a go.

 

Nor do I *-)

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