stevec176 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 I'm looking for advice on whether to fit an inverter or not please. Basically the only reason I need a hook up is for my wifes hair dryer so would like to know what do others use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 This previous thread might be useful Steve http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Roadpro-12v-Hairdryer-is-Allan-about-/47261/#M534583 There may be more threads if you do a search. Simply my wife now uses a low wattage hairdryer driven by inverter from leisure batteries and is reasonably happy with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 stevec176 - 2018-02-13 12:43 PM I'm looking for advice on whether to fit an inverter or not please. Basically the only reason I need a hook up is for my wifes hair dryer so would like to know what do others use. I hope you like buying batteries :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 My wife used to use a Revlon (other brands available!) 300w heated styling brush via a 650w inverter and it worked fine, maybe take a while if one has very long hair! I started with the inverter via the hab battery but, for better or for worse, right or wrong, I changed it run off the engine battery which I figured was better able to take and replace the load? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 The old post pointed to by Arthur was a very specific response to a low wattage 12v hairdryer, many of the things mentioned in there would not apply to a high wattage or 230v hair dryer as is often on most wives 'wish lists'. For example our suggestion in that post for idling the engine to preserve battery life, ONLY applied specifically to that post with it's very low wattage 12v hair dryer, using that method of preserving habitation battery life could cause serious issues if the same advice were applied to other appliances/situations. Moving warm air faster is often more effective than moving hot air slowly, as demonstrated by toilet hand 'Air Dryers', like the Dyson Blade, hence the electric motor taking a significant chunk of the 'wattage' figures, if not the Lions share. The one good 12v hair dryer we once had worked in this way. A high speed fan motor but lowish heat output. My Wife didn't like it, until she replaced it. We swapped it for a high wattage 'more powerful' version that took more than twice as long to dry hair. It felt like it was working better, because the air felt warmer, but because the motor was so weak air flow was poor and drying time was extended enormously. A Toilet hand 'Air dryer' with a good Motor will still dry your hands if the heater element burns out, but not if it's the other way around. If you want to minimise the massive load some hairdryers can place on a Motorhomes battery pack, then it might be worth the considerable task of helping choosing your hair dryer carefully, it isn't just about 'Watts', it's airflow. That original post is an excellent example of why a recommendation given for one persons issue won't necessarily apply to someone else's seemingly 'similar' problem. For example, if an Inverter solution is used and is connected to the habitation batteries, as is usually the way most 'professional' installations we see, then starting the engine could mean that 100amps of Alternator power is drawn through the Power Controller/Charger unit on it's way to the habitation battery, which few boxes are designed to handle. More modern Power Controller/chargers incorporate the 'Split charge' functionality inside the unit and few are designed for the excessive currents Inverters can cause to be passed.. If a high wattage 230v hairdryer is a must, then driving it via a mid sized Invertor connected to the Starter battery, is our suggestion, as the engine can be run at a fast idle to supply all the current required. The Starter battery won't get involved at all as the Alternator will effectively supply all the power directly to the Inverter. However, this suggestion only applies if the Inverter 12v current draw is limited to 100amps max, any greater imposes quite a load on the Alternator/Starter battery, etc. Should the Inverter draw be any greater, then we suggest you follow the battery manufacturers guidelines in building a battery bank where no individual battery has a load greater than it's ideal operating load, usually around 20amps per 100Ah battery, see here for more info on sizing a battery bank for an Inverter : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/inverters.php Overloading the habitation batteries with lots of amps for just minutes, will cause seriously shortened battery life. When we see the damage done by a big Inverter, we almost always hear something like, "but it can't be that, we hardly use it, no more than about 15 minutes 2 or 3 times a day". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 aandncaravan - 2018-02-13 7:03 PM The old post pointed to by Arthur was a very specific response to a low wattage 12v hairdryer, many of the things mentioned in there would not apply to a high wattage or 230v hair dryer as is often on most wives 'wish lists'. For example our suggestion in that post for idling the engine to preserve battery life, ONLY applied specifically to that post with it's very low wattage 12v hair dryer, using that method of preserving habitation battery life could cause serious issues if the same advice were applied to other appliances/situations. Moving warm air faster is often more effective than moving hot air slowly, as demonstrated by toilet hand 'Air Dryers', like the Dyson Blade, hence the electric motor taking a significant chunk of the 'wattage' figures, if not the Lions share. The one good 12v hair dryer we once had worked in this way. A high speed fan motor but lowish heat output. My Wife didn't like it, until she replaced it. We swapped it for a high wattage 'more powerful' version that took more than twice as long to dry hair. It felt like it was working better, because the air felt warmer, but because the motor was so weak air flow was poor and drying time was extended enormously. A Toilet hand 'Air dryer' with a good Motor will still dry your hands if the heater element burns out, but not if it's the other way around. If you want to minimise the massive load some hairdryers can place on a Motorhomes battery pack, then it might be worth the considerable task of helping choosing your hair dryer carefully, it isn't just about 'Watts', it's airflow. That original post is an excellent example of why a recommendation given for one persons issue won't necessarily apply to someone else's seemingly 'similar' problem. For example, if an Inverter solution is used and is connected to the habitation batteries, as is usually the way most 'professional' installations we see, then starting the engine could mean that 100amps of Alternator power is drawn through the Power Controller/Charger unit on it's way to the habitation battery, which few boxes are designed to handle. More modern Power Controller/chargers incorporate the 'Split charge' functionality inside the unit and few are designed for the excessive currents Inverters can cause to be passed.. If a high wattage 230v hairdryer is a must, then driving it via a mid sized Invertor connected to the Starter battery, is our suggestion, as the engine can be run at a fast idle to supply all the current required. The Starter battery won't get involved at all as the Alternator will effectively supply all the power directly to the Inverter. However, this suggestion only applies if the Inverter 12v current draw is limited to 100amps max, any greater imposes quite a load on the Alternator/Starter battery, etc. Should the Inverter draw be any greater, then we suggest you follow the battery manufacturers guidelines in building a battery bank where no individual battery has a load greater than it's ideal operating load, usually around 20amps per 100Ah battery, see here for more info on sizing a battery bank for an Inverter : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/inverters.php Overloading the habitation batteries with lots of amps for just minutes, will cause seriously shortened battery life. When we see the damage done by a big Inverter, we almost always hear something like, "but it can't be that, we hardly use it, no more than about 15 minutes 2 or 3 times a day". Seems to me it’s a lot of faff to provide this facility and so I would be quite happy to say to my OH don’t worry love it’s not worth it nor am I. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Whats wrong with letting hair dry naturally ? Never use one, Can't understand why people have to have all the things thay use at home when on a CAMPING holiday If she must use one , go to sites and use the electric provided in the toilets PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 Sorry I asked. Think I'll leave things as they are, thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 stevec176 - 2018-02-14 10:50 AM Sorry I asked. Think I'll leave things as they are, thanks all. Don't be sorry - it was a sensible question and did get some sensible responses from which you should be able to distill a cost effective solution that suits your pocket and your good lady's wishes! Every married man knows that a happy wife can be a joy to live with but an unhappy wife can very quickly bring untold grief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumblewagon Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I'm with PJay on this one.. It seems these days that it's the norm to want all the things you would have at home, while camping/caravanning. Some things are pretty well essential, but others are not really needed. So, give your hair a good towelling and let it dry naturally - or use a hair drier in the site's facilities. However, generally I would say, don't think of powering mains appliances through an inverter. Buy 12Volt appliances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 In the past I have wondered about getting some plastic tubing and connecting a hair dryer nozzle one end, and some sort of plastic box type thingy the other to fit over a cab air vent ;-) ......... Hey presto one 2 and a half litre diesel driven hairdryer B-) ......... I reserve all intellectual property rights :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-02-14 1:24 PM In the past I have wondered about getting some plastic tubing and connecting a hair dryer nozzle one end, and some sort of plastic box type thingy the other to fit over a cab air vent ;-) ......... Hey presto one 2 and a half litre diesel driven hairdryer B-) ......... I reserve all intellectual property rights :D ........ Not much intellectual there Dave, although I had forgotten about it until you said so maybe your intellect works better than mine! I did this many moons ago on a Talbot Express when fresh air vents first appeared on a van and the home made adapter contraption fitted over an air vent quite well and add a redundant hoover flexy tube. ! Put it on hot, put the fan on full, close all the other vents - et viola - one hair dryer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 stevec176 - 2018-02-14 10:50 AM Sorry I asked. Think I'll leave things as they are, thanks all. I hope my reply didn't come across as rude. It was meant to be a funny reference to L'Oreal adverts on the telly. When we first started wild- camping in a tent when we were young I used to whinge at my OH about the fact that I had no access to a hairdryer. Dry shampoo helped but I never looked my best. Nowadays we don't demand that either of us look our best at all times and I find that quite liberating. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 stevec176 - 2018-02-14 10:50 AM Sorry I asked. Think I'll leave things as they are, thanks all. It was a sensible question! We heard an item on the radio last week that some women would rather lose a breast than lose their hair. When I asked my wife and her sister what they thought about that they hesitated and basically said "depends on my age". To many women hair is their 'crowning glory' and as my wife and her sister agreed "its part of my look. I don't feel good if my hair is not right". My wife is 70 and her sister 63. Maybe if they had a face like a bag of spanners they would think differently about their hair? 8-) 8-) 8-) Me? I'm bald, never used a hair dryer ...... :-D :-D :-D but I've been married for 43 years and I know when she's not happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I researched this problem some time back, I became aware that there is, somewhere out there, a gas cartridge powered 12v fan hair dryer, I have never found it so if anyone does let us know! H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 No problem with the answers makes interesting reading but was just being a bit lazy and hoped somebody would have fitted a suitable invertor for the same useage. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 My wife uses a domestic hairdryer and why wouldn’t she. Yes we have 2 X 110 ah batteries of a decent quality. The inverter was purchased from Road Pro. Without going out in the rain I think it’s 1600 W. It sits in line with the mains, so it supplies all the sockets and can boost a low powered EHU Wouldn’t be without it. It’s been refitted into 3 Mh’s and Soon to be the 4th. Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 stevec176 - 2018-02-14 6:01 PM No problem with the answers makes interesting reading but was just being a bit lazy and hoped somebody would have fitted a suitable invertor for the same useage. Thanks Sorry Steve I should have explained what we did. I installed a 600w inverter from RoadPro. Connected to 2x 100Ah 'Lion' leisure batteries which are 4 years old (almost). The hairdryer is 400w 230v and it works well, my wife tells me, or at least far better than the 12v thing she used to use. I accept that the 400w hairdryer used for maybe 7 minutes a day may shorten the life of my batteries but having spoken to others with larger inverters and greater demand on their batteries, I'm happy with our arrangement. We currently have a 45A Sterling B2B installed with original split charge disconnected, so no strain is being put on the power unit, as we drive, charging up the batteries. (Van is in process of being traded in and I will install a similar arrangement in our new van) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 How about a old hoover hose fitted to one of your heater blower outlets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 A 400watt hair dryer connected to an efficient Inverter will probably draw less than about 38amps. Split between two 100Ah batteries, that is around 19amps per battery and well within most battery manufacturers ideals so shouldn't impact battery life at all. However, it should be noted that 400watts is an extremely low powered Hair Dryer. My wife's existing device is a Babyliss Pro Speed 2200w. A 2,200watt monster of a hairdryer, but my wife says it is the best she has ever had. The last one was 'only' 1,800 watts. When in use in the van on EHU we have to turn all high consumers off to avoid tripping the RCD/MCB/Bollard!!!!. It will probably draw close to a battery destroying 220 amps from 2 x 100Ah batteries via a quality 3,000watt Inverter, or 110 amps from each of a pair of 100Ah batteries. I think some men might be shocked to read the wattage rating labels of most ladies home hair dryers? I was when I finally traced the cause of the MCB tripping out every time the previous Hairdryer was used in the van. So it can be easily done, you just need to size the Inverter to match the Hairdryer and size the battery bank to match the Inverter for ideal battery life. But as I suggested above, best start with the Hair Dryer, you can then work out the route you want to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 hallii - 2018-02-14 4:47 PM I researched this problem some time back, I became aware that there is, somewhere out there, a gas cartridge powered 12v fan hair dryer, I have never found it so if anyone does let us know! H Gas-fuelled hair dryers were discussed here 10 years ago (and before) http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/12v-Hairdryer/13871/ As was mentioned by ‘Patricia’ then, Braun used to market a gas-fuelled hair brush/straightener product (referred to here) https://www.practicalcaravan.com/forum/equipment-accessories/26539-lpg-gas-powered-hairdryer but this had no fan. As was also mentioned in the Practical Caravan link and here https://www.practicalcaravan.com/forum/equipment-accessories/7192-hair-dryer even further in the past Morco marketed a fan-assisted hair-dryer that was heated via a gas-burner. My wife has a compact 230V hair-dyer that she takes on holiday. However, given the opportunity, she much prefers to use this in a campsite’s sanitary facilities rather than in the motorhome when the vehicle is on EHU. I think it’s a ‘mirror thing’ (though it might be some sort of female ritual) but I’ve long given up trying logical argument (“Men find women with really short hair extremely sexy”, “Think about the money you would not be wasting at hairdressers that you could spend on clothes, shoes and handbags”, etc.) but it’s never had the least effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 As Allan said, it is airflow rather than heat that dries hair so unless a cliff top coastal path or mountain top was available, as I said earlier, my wife found a 300 watt 230 v styling brush used correctly to work acceptably well - and she is fussy - very fussy - about her hair (bless her)! Unless 12 v hair driers have improved markedly in recent years they used to be an utter waste of money - better to use the fresh air vents on yer van, as mentioned earlier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagHal Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Installed an invertor when I first bought our van. It doesn't get a lot of use but the odd kettle of hot water when were on the road or the wife's hair drier is about as much as it does and only when there are no mains facilities about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 Thats what I want to do too, can you remember which invertor you have fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagHal Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 stevec176 - 2018-02-16 2:07 PM Thats what I want to do too, can you remember which invertor you have fitted. Sorry about this late reply. It was a streetwise 1500 from Towsure. It's not a pure sinewave unit so no good for TV but OK for what you want. When you fit it make sure the leads to the battery are as short as possible. Put the invertor right next to the battery case. Any longer than a foot or so and the voltage drop on the leads may affect the functioning of the invertor and any overheating is a fire hazard I wired the 240V output into the breaker unit through an isolation switch so that I can completely isolate it when I'm on hook up. PS I have a 120 watt solar panel to keep the battery topped up. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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