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Are user-refillable gas-bottles/tanks doomed?


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Our latest van has a very nice Gaslow system installed and we thought that would be great but .... the first 3 garages we have been too (checked first on the web) no longer have the pumps. We checked the Shell website and low and behold it lists the garage we have just visited as having Autogas...!!!

Looks to me like they are changing the Autogas pumps over to AdBlue. Makes sense as they will of course make more money.

Problem is does that kill off the LPG industry as clearly no distribution network will mean no customers ? Will I have to have the Gaslow system ripped out and go back to buying flogas, which by the way was always very easy.

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Electric is kiling off autogas. Those that would once buy a car with an lpg conversion are the most likely early movers to hybrid and full electric. Before that the move to small diesel cars would have stymmied the market a fair bit.

 

I doubt if there will be any pumps left by 2030 and everywhere I've been over the last few years numbers are already on the wane.

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A similar concern was raised in the following topic:

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Have-refillable-bottles-tanks-had-their-day-/50454/#M584857

 

There is a decreasing number of places where you can fill your gas tanks in some areas. Calor Gas's Bootle branch say their storage tank has reached the end of its life and sales are insufficient to justify replacement. I think Calor gas on the Wirral has done the same. The demand for AdBlue, as Stewart says, is growing especially in the commercial vehicle market; space on forecourts is limited.

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Refilling motorhome LPG bottles and tanks was also discussed in this forum thread

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Where-to-fill-up-Gaslow-Gas-it-/48876/

 

This May 2018 article may also be of interest

 

http://www.businesscar.co.uk/analysis/2018/lpg-life-in-the-old-dog-yet

 

Assuming that the statement in the article is correct - that some 1400 of the UK’s 8500-odd filling-stations offerl autogas - then, with an accurate and up-to-date database listing autogas sellers and a modicum of forward-planning, motorcaravanners should not have too much difficulty refilling LPG bottles/tanks in the UK during (say) the next 10 years.

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Oh dear! Just when I’d convinced my wife that GAS IT was the best thing since sliced bread; those Calor bottles are definitely getting heavier! :-(

I was going to wait until the new Calor Lite bottles become available. But they seem to be a very long time coming.

Cattwg :-D

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Cattwg - 2018-11-17 6:26 PM

I was going to wait until the new Calor Lite bottles become available. But they seem to be a very long time coming.

Cattwg :-D

 

Haven't they come an gone I had 2 supplied 10 yrs ago but could never find any where with refills

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witzend - 2018-11-17 8:14 PM

 

Cattwg - 2018-11-17 6:26 PM

I was going to wait until the new Calor Lite bottles become available. But they seem to be a very long time coming.

Cattwg :-D

 

Haven't they come an gone I had 2 supplied 10 yrs ago but could never find any where with refills

 

As I understand the situation. Calor introduced lightweight bottles several years ago but there were problems with their safety and durability. They were recalled, with Calor promising a new lightweight replacement. It’s that new replacement that is awaited still.

 

Cattwg :-D

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Cattwg - 2018-11-17 8:42 PM

 

witzend - 2018-11-17 8:14 PM

 

Cattwg - 2018-11-17 6:26 PM

I was going to wait until the new Calor Lite bottles become available. But they seem to be a very long time coming.

Cattwg :-D

 

Haven't they come an gone I had 2 supplied 10 yrs ago but could never find any where with refills

 

As I understand the situation. Calor introduced lightweight bottles several years ago but there were problems with their safety and durability. They were recalled, with Calor promising a new lightweight replacement. It’s that new replacement that is awaited still.

 

Cattwg :-D

 

These 2017 links relate to the phasing out/replacement of the CalorLite canister

 

https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/caravans/news/calor-promises-free-6kg-lite-cylinder-replacement-when-available

 

https://www.calor.co.uk/calor-lite-propane-gas-bottle.html

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We now live in France full time and everywhere we travel we have found more and more gas pumps available. We use the Gaslow bottles for the house too and the gas works out less than 1/2 the price of a French bottle of Butane. Highly recommend Gaslow - their service is second to none. B-)
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Derek Uzzell - 2018-11-18 7:38 AM

These 2017 links relate to the phasing out/replacement of the CalorLite canister

 

https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/caravans/news/calor-promises-free-6kg-lite-cylinder-replacement-when-available

 

https://www.calor.co.uk/calor-lite-propane-gas-bottle.html

 

It would seem that Calor are still not in a position to bring their 'more robust' Calor Lite 6kg bottle to market? :'(

Cattwg :-D

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I fitted a Gasit bottle to my m/h last year and filled it up when in France in June this year. Son had the m/h for 3 weeks in France in the summer and we've had about twenty days away since. I did ask son to fill it up when he was in France but surprise surprise, he "forgot" so just because it's coming to the end of the season, I decided to fill it up locally.

 

Using the www.filllpg.com website I found loads of places that I could fill up at and the prices vary from 54 to 74 a litre - sounds a big difference but it's only really relevant if you buy loads of gas. Just for the fun of it and 'cos we were heading up the A1 for the weekend, decided to fill at the big Flogas depot in Peterborough so we went there Friday morning.

 

Also because it's been mentioned on here that some garages are nervous about letting m/h's fill up, I thought I'd see if my filling installation met with any criticism. I don't have a fixed fill point, the hose is loose inside the gas locker, so asked the chappie if he could show me how to fill up saying I'd not done it before. He explained the instructions are all on the wall by the nozzle but he offered to do it for me, that way I'd know he'd see my non-fixed filler set up and if he did say something I could go elsewhere. No eyebrows were raised and I even asked him if the installation was OK. He said as long as it doesn't leak, then it's fine.:-D

 

Tank took 11.7 litres and cost £6 something, so not exactly expensive for a whole summer's use for cooking and heating

 

I also laid it on a bit saying I'd had real trouble finding somewhere that sells gas (I hadn't it was just for the story) and he replied that the best way to find a garage is to ask a cabbie, apparantly almost all use autogas so they'll point you to the nearest/cheapest garage.. He went on to say that they sell loads of gas, it's getting more popular every week according to him.

 

So make of that what you will, I tried to make life hard for myself but it didn't work out like that 8-)

 

Only downside to the exercise is that it's just a grotty proper working factory yard where you have to pull in round behind a wall and there's nowhere to get a coffee or have a wee - but then that's what the m/h is for. (lol)

 

Really glad I fitted the Gasit and would recommend to anyone. Gasit and Gaslow are much the same as far as I know, except one's red t'other is yellow. :D

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thanks everybody, good response as usual on the forum. I am going for a drive round in the car to all the local fish places to see what i can find, very encouraging to see there will be some time left as I think the system is great and of course cheaper to run. :-)
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ColinM50 - 2018-11-18 6:01 PM

 

...Gasit and Gaslow are much the same as far as I know, except one's red t'other is yellow. :D

 

The user-refillable gas bottles currently marketed by Gaslow are their yellow “R67” canisters with capacities of 11kg, 6kg or 2.7kg (details here)

 

https://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/cyujrhdmmu67.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Categories/Gaslow_Products/Gaslow_Refillable

 

GAS IT currently markets two significantly different types of user-refillable gas bottle, both coloured red.

 

The cheaper type have a capacity of 11kg or 6kg and a magnetically-operated contents-gauge, and (as I understand it) are essentialy the same product Gaslow used to sell before changing to the more sophisticated R67 design that meets French regulations and allows Gaslow to market their bottles in that country.

 

The 2nd type of bottle offered by GAS IT is available with a capacity of 18kg, 11kg or 6kg. These are considerably dearer than GAS IT’s ‘budget’ bottles, have a 4-hole design and my understanding is that they are made by STAKO.

 

Details of both types of GAS IT bottle are here:

 

https://www.gasit.co.uk/leisure-gas-refillable-products/1-refillable-gas-bottles-gas-it.html#2

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More and more main stream PVC converters (Autotrail, Autosleeper) are fitting underslung gas tanks as standard, so a lot of owners will be looking for LPG pumps to fill up.

Also Diesel vehicles are being denigrated and laws made to descriminate against their use, so, LPG conversions on petrol vehicles SHOULD be getting more popular, and more convenient than full electric at present.?

SO, tales of their passing are a bit pre-mature.

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Rayjsj - 2018-11-27 1:20 PM

 

SO, tales of their passing are a bit pre-mature.

 

However, here where the LPG pumps are physically disappearing both from main fuel station forecourts and independant outlets, like a farm equipment dealers and a truck stop, one wonders just how solid the future supply is.

 

 

 

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Ocsid - 2018-11-27 2:41 PM

 

Rayjsj - 2018-11-27 1:20 PM

 

SO, tales of their passing are a bit pre-mature.

 

However, here where the LPG pumps are physically disappearing both from main fuel station forecourts and independant outlets, like a farm equipment dealers and a truck stop, one wonders just how solid the future supply is.

 

 

Yes agree.

Some LPG pumps have disappeared from around here (there may very well still be some tucked away on an industrial estates somewhere but they're hardly high profile and convenient if there are..)

 

So what someone thinks "should" happen, is not borne out by what "is" happening...not 'round here anyway. :-S

 

Off Topic Edit-

The thread title including the name "Gaslow" is somewhat unfortunate?

Should/could the words "Is Gaslow.." be changed to something like "Are re-fillables.." ?

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In Europe, whilst LPG would appear to be a sensible next step before electric vehicles become both practical and cost effective , many governments have pushed the electric vehicle option – probably because for car manufacturers it would be the preferred route (cheaper to construct, cheaper to maintain, customer lock-in, higher margins – and China wants electric). So I’d not expect to see manufacturers offering much in the way of new LPG vehicles in the UK. Consequently, LPG filling station provision is likely to decline over time. It only takes a change of government policy though to shift the balance – but don’t hold your breath. Having stated all that, if the LPG is only required for heating/cooking, then there are still plenty of LPG filling stations available, especially in continental Europe. And given the few times a motorhome’s gas tanks are likely to need refilling, I suspect that we’re still fine for the next 20 years, we may just have to drive a little further to fill up. (Apparently Poland is the third largest market for Autogas)

 

Probably unwise to purchase a new Autogas fuelled vehicle though.

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Our 2017 Autotrail v-line has undersliung gas tank with filler point on the nearside. Ive struggled with using this, but everntaully found that there is indeed a full set of instrcutions by the side of the pump we use.,

We are lucky perhspa in that Morrisons still sell this, and its onl a couple of mkiles from us to get topped up - the most we;ve had to put in so far is around 5litres, and at 55.p or os its so much cheaper and easier than the old calor bottles.

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Both my nearest 2 garages both supply LPG, the nearest being a Shell garage which has 2 forecourt pumps one each side of an island so access is a breeze, the other one Jet is a bit more tricky getting access.

I have 2 11kg Alugas bottles which even in winter will last over 2 weeks supplemented by electric, so I think unless its Shells policy Nationwide to change it will be a long time before I need to look for an alternative.

I can always go back to the supplier Autogas 2000 as they have a tank and in the whole scheme of things not too far away.

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We have Webasto diesel heating on our new van and very good it is. Although we still need gas for hot water and cooking, the amount used is tiny compared to using gas for heating. We have a German 11kg gas bottle (van is an import) for water and cooker. Not sure if there is a perfect solution to gas issues.
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I no longer have an Autogas refill location within about 25 miles but I still hope to be able to refill somewhere en route while touring, if only when we're abroad and since we have two 11 kg bottles, that will probably be enough to avoid ever running out. In practice we should still be able to refill with gas and one of the stations currently available at 25 miles is on the main road we use to head for and return from the ports. It's a minor inconvenience that many autogas fill points at petrol stations have closed but it's not the end of the world, yet.
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