Marglouise Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Our Swift Kontiki 669 motorhome has the Trumatic C 6002 EH heater. It's a complicated system but after constant referral to the manual we think we have it sorted. Heating water in Summer mode is fine but using Winter mode to heat water and have hot air for heating is causing a huge drain on our batteries. We are always on Gas mode as we always freedom camp (we seldom hook up to electricity) When the heater is on it uses about 2 or 3 amps while the fan is on high speed. Does anyone know if this is normal? And if so, how long does this period last? We've been too low on battery power to risk letting the heater get up to temperature and have always just switched it off, but now that it's winter we really need it. Hope someone can advise ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 "but now that it's winter we really need it." Where do you live? its not on high for long...just to get the temp up. Do you have twin batteries and how old are they Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marglouise Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 We live in New Zealand....and have one 12 volt battery which is 18 months old. Perhaps we should look at getting a second battery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Marglouise - 2013-06-04 11:10 AM We live in New Zealand....and have one 12 volt battery which is 18 months old. Perhaps we should look at getting a second battery? Yes that would be a good start. but if you want to live off grid, and have good weather, a roof mounted solar panel, the next step if 2 leisure batteries not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Marglouise Truma's Operating Instructions for the Trumatic C-6002EH appliance http://dealer.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma-Katalog/pdf_verzeichnis/30_000/34010_03500.pdf include a useful Technical Data section on Page 14. You'll note that the 12V current requirement is minimal (0.001A) when the heater is on stand-by, quite low (0.4A) just heating water (Summer mode) when only the gas-burner's fan is running, but potentially high (up to 5.6A) in Winter mode when the blown-air fan and the gas-burner fan are both running. It's normal then for a C-6002EH to place a hefty load on the leisure battery when the appliance is in air-heating mode and at maximum power. How long the heater will be at maximum output will depend on how cold your motorhome's interior temperature is to begin with, the 'room temperature' setting you've chosen on the Control Panel's rotary switch and the size of your motorhome. If your motorhome is large and freezing-cold inside, and you've chosen a setting of (say) "9", the heater will run at maximum output for a long time. The smaller the vehicle and the warmer it is inside to begin with, and the lower the rotary switch's numeric setting, the shorter the time the heater will be running flat out. A JudgeMental advises, standard practice would be to fit a 2nd leisure-battery and, if that's still insufficient, to fit a solar panel to offset the 12V current-drain. You might also find this earlier forum thread helpful http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Trumatic-C-EH-heater-and-hot-water-system/28220/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Well as a mere woman I have always known that anything with a heating element uses a LOT of electricity!! when we had our KonTiki even on hookup I would never have two things on the go at once, if I wanted to put the kettle on I always made sure the hot water wasn't on :-) better to be safe than cause the electrics to trip out!! So going by that :-S and I must have been told it at sometime!! I don't think one battery would last long at all. It sounds as if you have the same system we have on our Autocruise we have 2 batteries + 90wt solar panel, on hookup in miserable weather in Berwick recently !! we didn't know you have to have the charger on as we didn't in the Kontiki unless we were charging the batteries!! our 12v Waeco fridge started to defrost after 3 days! we did have the t.v on and the heating on low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 maggyd - 2013-06-04 4:10 PM Well as a mere woman I have always known that anything with a heating element uses a LOT of electricity!! when we had our KonTiki even on hookup I would never have two things on the go at once, if I wanted to put the kettle on I always made sure the hot water wasn't on :-) better to be safe than cause the electrics to trip out!!... Although Truma's C-6002EH appliance has a 230V water and air heating capability (with a pair of heating elements drawing either 900W or 1800W of mains-electricity power), Marglouise's inquiry relates to the unit's 12V consumption when her Swift Kontiki motorhome is not on 230V hook-up and, consequently, its leisure-battery is not being recharged. This consumption is directly related to the speed of the heater's blown-air fan that, in turn, is governed by the heater's output. The colder the weather the more 'work' the heater will be asked to do, and the more work it does the faster and longer the blown-air fan will be running and the higher the drain on the leisure-battery will be. My 2005 Hobby has a C-6002EH heater and a single leisure-battery (80Ah originally, now 92Ah). With no TV or 12V power-hungry appliances like your Waeco compressor fridge, and a usage regimen that mixes a good deal of battery-charging driving with occasional short-duration campsite on-hook-up stays, this limited battery-capacity has proved adequate. Undoubtedly, if I were always "freedom camping" like Marglouise, I'd fit a 2nd battery and solar panel. There are alternative ways of maintaining a leisure-battery's charge. For example http://www.efoy-comfort.com/ http://www.support-telecogroup.com/telecogroup/telair/en/products/generators/ecoenergy/TG480-TG480MEF-TG600MEF.asp but more (and/or larger capacity) leisure-batteries + solar panel(s) is the conventional approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Same system in my MH and it is power hungry if you have the thermostat turned up. I have 2 X 110A/h batteries and still have to be cautious on the heating use as they soon drop down. I tend to have it on a high setting to get the MH heated up and then down to a tick over. I have not checked this but whilst the calculations will probably show that for the load used by the heater the batteries will be able to run them for ?? minutes, however the heater shuts itself down far earlier due to its low voltage detection. I do not consider this type of heating system was ever designed for long duration use on battery only. I have considered a convection type heater but MH layout does not allow it. Unfortunately its a case of wrapping up with extra layers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 sshortcircuit - 2013-06-05 8:13 AM I have not checked this but whilst the calculations will probably show that for the load used by the heater the batteries will be able to run them for ?? minutes, however the heater shuts itself down far earlier due to its low voltage detection. I do not consider this type of heating system was ever designed for long duration use on battery only. I have considered a convection type heater but MH layout does not allow it. The red monitoring light on a C-6002EH's control panel should start to flash when the heater 'detects' low voltage. According to Truma's Operating Instructions, "low voltage" means less than 10.5V, a figure that would indicate a severely discharged battery. Regarding the 12V electrical connection, Truma's C-6002EH installation instructions advise as follows: "To guarantee optimum power supply, the heating system must be connected to the fused on-board network (central electronics unit 10 A) with a 2 x 2.5 mm2 cable (for lengths over 6m with 2 x 4mm2 cable). If relevant, voltage-drops in the supply cable must be taken into account.....Do not connect any other consumers to the supply line." Many motorhomes fitted with this heater (or with other Truma C-Series/"Combi" appliances) are likely to have an installation that does not comply with Truma recommendations and, when cable thicknesses and lengths are factored in, it's hardly surprising that these heaters will shut themselves down well before they might be expected to. I agree with you that a heating system that demands a lot of 12V power is inappropriate for a motorhome. I discussed this once with a Truma(UK) representative who said the same thing, adding that Truma had reacted to motorhome manufacturers' demands for a compact, powerful heater that was simple to install. That this type of system produced potential problems for motorcaravanners was not Truma's responsibility and, in any case, there was the option to have a less 12V-power-hungry Alde (a Truma subsidiary) 'wet' system or a Truma convector 'fire' instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marglouise Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 Thank you Derek for your very helpful and informative explanation, as well as the links. We do have two large solar panels which up to now have given us adequate power along with the one leisure battery. However now that we are exploring South Island, NZ, with the sun much lower and less powerful we find it's not quite enough. So it's a second leisure battery that we shall buy. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Marglouise - 2013-06-06 6:23 AM ...So it's a second leisure battery that we shall buy. This webpage offers useful advice on installing a 2nd leisure-battery: http://www.motts.org/second%20leisiure%20battery.htm You'll note in the first paragraph the recommendation that multiple batteries should best be "of similar age, ampere-hour capacity and construction". Best practice is for a pair of batteries to be identical where type, capacity and age are concerned, but there is a good deal of latitude. As the optimum charging regimens differ, gel, AGM or 'wet' batteries should not be mixed. The amp-hours capacity of the 2nd battery should be roughly similar to that of the 1st one (say 70% to 130%), but opting for the same capacity is simplest (space-contraints sometimes prevent this). Exide advises that there should be no more than one year age-difference between multiple batteries and your current leisure-battery is 18 months old. It's not really the age of the batteries that's important but their condition, and that may be difficult to establish without testing the performance of your present battery. If you've been in the habit of discharging your current battery well down (your original posting says "We've been too low on battery power...") and its performance has suffered as a consequence, you might want to consider getting a matching pair of brand-new batteries rather than connect a brand-new battery to your 'old' one. Certainly, if there are any signs that your current battery is starting to flag, get a pair of new ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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