Is it still worth buying a nearly new motorhome in 2020?

[TonyC123]

Hi all

 

I must apologise if this has been asked recently but I've not been able to find it, so here goes:

 

I'm retiring in August and for the last few years I've been pondering trying out a more mobile lifestyle, very likely full time in a motorhome, splitting the time between wild camping, CLs, and going abroad.

 

One of the issues affecting my thinking on motorhomes is the coming ban on new vehicle sales (with internal combustion engines) in 15 years from now, and the total ban of all private IC engined vehicles in (I think ) 2050.

 

There seems to be a climate of increasingly discouraging IC vehicle ownership, with congestion or emission charges for entering many cities, plus the big tax increase in 2019. I'm worried the next step will be more tax on fuel itself in the next decade, making motorhome ownership more expensive as we approach 2035 when new diesel/petrol vehicles will be banned, and we will be looking to alternative engine types.

 

So with all that said, I would really apppreciate the thoughts of experienced and knowledgeable motorhome owners about the long term future of motorhomes, and in particular whether it is still worthwhile spending say 40k on a used motorhome- or say 60k on a new one?

Are they likely to depreciate greatly in the next 15 years, or could scarcity mean you could still sell one in 2035 and get some of your 40k or 60k back?

Will fuel tax make it too expensive to travel any real distance, making them less saleable?

 

Obviously a lot of this is informed guesswork, opinion and predictions, but thanks in advance for any thoughts. opinions or ideas you might have.

 

[Conrad]

Welcome to the forum, Tony. I hope you find it as useful as I have.

 

My wife and I retired 3 years ago and haven't looked back. I'm inclined to think the question you should be asking yourself is, "when I'm too old to use a motor caravan, do I want to be looking back wishing I'd bought one?"

 

As to the future of motor caravanning, who knows? There will have to be a great leap forward in battery technology to make electric vans viable for touring; my feeling is that our polluting internal combustion engined vans will become more desirable commodities.

[Keithl]

Tony,

 

The ‘big increase’ in road tax was rescinded last month.

 

BUT for the nine months it was in force those vehicles registered will carry that increase for six years so be careful if buying nearly new!

 

Keith.

[TonyC123]

Thanks guys, it is encouraging news that they backed off the tax increase, that does perhaps indicate a softening of the approach for motorhomes...

 

And I do agree with the idea that at retirement age, our years are becoming limited in number, and that sometimes it is not the best idea to worry about whether you might be putting 50k into a vehicle with little prospect of any return. Sometimes the experience is worth a high price, and financial caution should not be the highest priority..

[BruceM]

There’s no suggestion that IC vehicles will be banned from 2050, just that the UK has a target to reach zero emissions by 2050. It’s assumed that with the sale of new IC cars banned in the UK from 2035 that by 2050 (just 15 years later) all the IC cars will have reached end of life and will have been scrapped. My van is 17 years old and is good for at least another 17.

 

There's still, I believe, a debate over whether vans will be included in the restriction as even 15 years from now there’s unlikely to be a viable electric alternative for long distance road haulage unless Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology takes off within Europe.

 

And on top of all this, a future government may well decide to modify the plan to fit in with economic necessity.

 

So like the other responses, I’d really not worry too much about it other than to try to get a Euro 6 vehicle so that clean air zone restrictions don’t hamper you too much in the future.

 

And if you’re,let's say, 65 and you spend £50k on a motorhome that you stop driving at 85 then thats £2,500 per year plus maintenance costs for an opportunity to tour Europe throughout the year and in the process experience different people, cultures and landscapes. Sounds like a bargain to me.

[StuartO]

Predicting how the motorhome market will go during the next few months, perhaps the next couple of years, is a bit of a challenge. There could be some dealers desperate to shift stock and if you are not part exchanging you could be in a strong position so shop around. I wouldn't worry too much about buying a diesel engined MH because at the moment they all are - and you'll probably be either using a Zimmer frame or dead by the time they make them illegal.

 

There are all sorts of pitfalls for newcomers and it's often said that you don't end up with the right MH until you buy your third. Don't fall for the temptation of focusing entirely on layout; you need to think about things like external locker and payload too, especially payload. If you have a pre-1997 driving licence you will have a C1 entitlement which extends your options because you can buy one which has a max weight over 3,500kg. If you plan to full-time you might want a motorhome with space and home comforts. Having said that the manufacturers have been designing down to 3,500kg in recent years because MH buyers are getting younger and don't have C1 licences, so there is a choice and you can always tow a small luggage trailer to expand your carrying capacity.

 

Sadly British built MHs are poor build quality and lack durability and residual value compared to the better Continental makes. We bought a LHD motorhome accidentally as our second MH (after learning about payload the hard way) and have chosen to by LHD since because they are better touring abroad and no problem at all when driving in UK. You rarely overtake in a MH and mostly on motorways, where it doesn't matter which side the steering wheel is. LHD motorhomes are usually a bit cheapr in UK too.

 

Resist the temptation to buy on price and look for a quality product, like a Hymer. MHs hold their value well but they do depreciate steeply to start with so a nearly new LHD A Class Hymer can cost nearly £50,000 below its new RRP and it comes with useful accessories too.

 

Go and vist UK Hymer dealers but think very carefully before buying from them because they sell at premium prices in UK because it operates as a contolled market. I saved the price of a family car by buying a new Hymer from a dealer-importer. There's a dealer called Lee Broadhurst (07949946313) who buys nearly new Hymers incredibly cheaply and imports them, usually with high spec accessories and sells for good prices because he doesn't carry the overheads of dealership premises. He does however usually take an exhibitor's stand at the Peterborough Show and display half a dozen or so motorhomes and this year the Show has been delayed until early August and is the biggest and best show so don't miss that one if it still goes ahead. Worth giving him a ring soon; he's very approachable and a fountain of knowledge.

 

If you are new to motorhoming try hiring one. You could hire one to go camping at the Peterborough Show.

[TonyC123]

Hi Stuart, thanks very much for the advice.

 

Can I trouble you for an opinion?

At the moment I'm thinking either go big budget on a nearly new Roller team Pegaso 590 at about £60k , which is compact but still has a small garage. Has a drop down bed so the sheets stay in pace and you just have to throw the duvet on it, so really convenient to use.

 

https://www.leisureworldgroup.com/motorhomes/roller-team/pegaso-590-n112877

 

I think I want a front lounge as well as a compact body, so my other favourites are British like the Bailey 66-2 (lovely big lounge), and that option is about 40-45k.

 

My very rough thinking so far is that the Pegaso 590 is worth the extra, partly because its not British made so its likely to be a bit better build quality maybe, and also because the extra 15-18k that it costs will (mostly) be recouped if/when I sell it 10 years down the line. I,e, I will lose the same amount of depreciation on either motorhome. Does that sound like even remotely sensible thinking?

 

The other question in my mind is- how easy is it to full time in a 6 or 6.5 metre motorhome?

I can strip out lots of things, but I dont want to strip down to the point that it becomes a day to day nuisance. E.g. it would be nice to carry a small generator as I want to be able to off grid for a few days.

Second thoughts- I'll ask that separately to save confusing people.

 

[TonyC123]

Thanks Bruce, that's very helpful info.

I do wonder if they'll make motorhomes a bit less desirable by raising fuel tax in the next decade, but its impossible to try to predict what you will lose over 20 years on a motorhome bought this summer, given all the novel factors that could come into play in those two decades.

The fact that IC vehicles wont actually be banned from the roads in 2050 means at least you wont left with 3 tons of useless metal. At least there is possibility they can still be used.

I'm actually 57, so I could hope to get 20 years active motorhoming if I look after myself a bit, and get a bit of luck and a following wind healthwise.

And from what you're saying, a decent quality motorhome should fetch some kind of price even at 15-20 years old. I would expect the IC engine replacements to be very close by then, but if its very expensive people will still be seeking out old IC vehicles as a cheaper alternative.

So may unknowns....

[Deneb]

Keithl - 2020-05-29 2:33 PM

 

Tony,

 

The ‘big increase’ in road tax was rescinded last month.

 

 

But is to be aligned to as not yet introduced commercial vehicle emissions related tax bands from next April, so may be a short reprieve!

[Don636]

Is the proposed future ban on vehicles with IC engines not just a ban on selling new ones not a ban of continuing to use existing ones. Also I doubt there would be a ban on selling existing IC vehicles either. If this is correct it could mean that existing IC engined motorhomes may command a premium unless of course they bring in electric driven motorhomes that can do a few hundred miles a day and there are readily available charging facilities.

[StuartO]

TonyC123 - 2020-05-29 4:18 PM Hi Stuart, thanks very much for the advice. Can I trouble you for an opinion? ......

 

Sorry can't help you there. I have no real knowledge of the models you mention.

 

Your budget matters of course and when you are buying your first one naturally enough you want to dip your toes in the water rather than dive in the deep end. So does your storage space at home if you want to keep your MH there but on the other hand lots of people store away from home and if you are thinking of long trips, maybe it's not a big factor.

 

I have met retired people who tour abroad in campervans but tarffic density outside UK is so much lower that bigger MHs are not a problem. Unless you go really huge - like coach sized American RVs - you'll have no trouble touring abroad in an A Class. And the elbow room and living space is so much better. A big part of the joy to us is driving with outr panoramic view of things through the A Class windscreen.

 

We've had our present 2006 MH, our third, for fourteen years and we're still quite happy with it. We look at newer ones periodically and always end up sticking with what we've got - it's familiar, we've got the accessories right, it's been well maintained, we know how to sort things and we find the modern ones too "stuffed up" with furniture and upholstery. We prefer the elbow room in our and we don't mind that it's not the latest in styling - although we're happy that it's silver paint job still looks modern from the outside. It's also pre-CAMBUS and pre-catalytic converter or DPF, which simplifies things and reduces maintenance costs; it's Euro 3 but it's still legal except in big cities and we don't want to go to those.

 

So you can buy an older Hymer and still get nice accomodation and good reliable engineering. Ours is still worth almost £30,000 now and we paid £52,000 for it brand new plus about £3K in accessories etc. Ours was one of the first with single beds, which suit us, and although we don't have a full height garage for scooter or bikes ours is plenty big enough for what we want to carry and we have a towbar which has been surprisingly useful at times. Solar panels are the best accessories we've fitted, closely follwed by cruise control. Mains aircon probably least used and a heavy bite off payload but when we've used it it's been great.

 

But everybody who's on their third MH thinks they got what's best for them!

[Will86]

Tony C

 

So young man ... you've nearly reached your 'retiring age' (a terrible admittance to make) and a word I refuse to even think about, go and spend what you've earned while you can and take advantage of everything it offers.

 

Will

[TonyC123]

Thanks again Stuart, that's really helpful.

I'm planning to live full time in the MH. I moved towns a few years ago and my house is already rented out to a brilliant tenant, so touch wood no issues there.

Roller team are Italian so probably not made to quite the same standards as Hymer, but the interior on the 590 is lovely.

I think its wise to buy a cheaper van first time in order to learn what you like and dont like, but I'll probably lose a couple of thousand with each vehicle move, and by then the 60k pegaso will be out of my safe budget range, so I'm torn about whether to just take the plunge in August when the finances are in place.

I'm single so i think I could live in a 6m MH, and it does have a garage, but it would be a challenge.

I know there are people who full time in 6m vans so its doable, but I dont want to cut out useful items like tools, folding chairs, a genny etc.

For a single person, do you think a 600kg payload would be enough?

[TonyC123]

Thanks for the encouraging words Will, and its not very often these days I get called 'young man'!

Increasingly in recent years I'm finding myself the oldest member of any teams or meeting groups I'm in, and I think its time I took the hint!

I've been lucky enough to work for the same organisation since 1981, and they 'forced' us to join the pension scheme immediately back then. I wasn't over the moon at the time, but here we are nearly 40 years later and I find its given me the chance to retire a bit early at 57, so I'm bloody grateful to be honest- although realistically I'm not going to be well off or anything- but with no mortgage to pay I can probably live ok.

I'm taking a bit of a financial hit going early, but my thinking is that we don't know how long we've got, so if there's a chance to escape the rat race, why not take it?

With that said, there is something I'm interested in asking, if you don't mind:

I've ended up being single at 57, which was really sad thing, but the one positive is that being single does give you complete freedom of choice in terms of lifestyle, location, etc.

The one thing that slightly niggles at me is the worry that living full time in a motorhome, partly on CLs, partly wilding, and partly in Europe- is not very conducive to finding a partner.

I've lived alone for extended periods in the past, so I can cope with that if I have to, although its not great let's face it- but is that a reality? Is full time mobile MH living the kind of lifestyle which kind of rules out the possibility of meeting women and forming relationships?

Thats a pretty tough question I think , so feel free to tell me to bugger off

 

[StuartO]

You will loose at least £5,000 each time if you part-ex with a dealer. Much more on some trades.

 

I met a solo male motorhomer in his eighties, an ex-antique dealer from Portobello Road; a great guy. He wintered in Iberia and summered in UK. Many years later I heard he’d been found to have passed away overnight - so he probably died how he wanted to.

 

Drop down beds often require gymnastic skill and getting out in the night for a pee, which comes to us all eventually, is painful on the feet if you have to use a ladder. Permanent ground level beds are best. There are MHs with one single bed across the back and a drop down double at the front for guests, Hymer S760 is an example. Don’t think it’s been made since about 2005 - but what a MH for a solo bloke! That series of Merc-based MHs are rated by some as the best ever Hymers. Bit old fashioned now perhaps but they were extremely well engineered and equipped.

 

Search on mobile.de for used examples.

[TonyC123]

Thanks again Stuart, I'll check that out.

I looked at that german MH site a couple of years back and was frankly thrilled at how much cheaper the brand new MHs were than in the UK, but the exchange rate drops in the last few years will probably have cancelled that out.

EU rules meant that you could even require a German dealer to supply you with a RHD version if you wanted, and the import process was a bit of a pain but well worth the cost savings.

I guess there might still be a last chance to snap up a bargain this year, but I'm not sure how accommodating the German dealers will be these days.

 

That tip about the bed ladders being uncomfortable on your feet is one of those things that even when you visit the dealer and tramp all over the vehicle, you dont cotton onto- because you just wouldn't think to climb barefoot onto the bed.

[webpax]

Import from Germany if you don't mind left hand drive. You'll get much more for your money and so any subsequent depreciation will be less painful. If you go to mobile.de you can search for motorhomes by brand etc. If you use the Chrome browser you can set it to auto translate to English so all the ads appear in English.

 

I imported a van I bought from Durrwang-Morlein in Dortmund. The chap I dealt with spoke perfect English. I saved about 20-25% off the UK price.

[davidmac]

Hi foam pipe insulation taped/glued around the rungs of the ladder solves the problem there. Euramobile, Hobby ,Rapido are some of the many quality makes of motorhome, look at them all. I spent two years trawling through eBay autotrader and dealer showrooms to find a motorhome I wanted, changing my mind about layout, fittings a few times before retiring and then buying.

Regards David

[TonyC123]

Thanks webpax, and I would love to save the money, but since the most stressful and congested driving will all be done in the UK, I do want a RHD van to help me cope.

The savings look amazing, and it would be very tempting if I could spend most of the year in Europe. But the reality is that after 1 Jan we are limited to 90 days out of every 180 in any part of the EU.

So on balance, given I will have to spend a majority of time in the UK, and given the crowded and unforgiving nature of a lot of our roads, I think RHD would be a priority for me.

If I could get hold of a RHD from a German dealer that would be great, and they used to do that, but I feel that time may be running out to get it all sorted out, and I'm pessimistic about how cooperative they would be under the current circumstances.

[TonyC123]

Thanks David, I still fancy a drop down bed at the moment. It seems like the best solution that will allow a large lounge plus an easy to make bed, and all within a vehicle of less than 6.5 metres, so the pipe insulation will be a handy solution.

I'm still pondering whether to throw all my cash at a new or nearly new Roller Team Pegaso 590.

It looks perfect at the moment, but I still have to make sure it will carry enough gear to allow decent full time living, so no decisions are made at the moment, and I need to make sure I take on board all of the experience and wisdom of the community here.

 

[colin]

The only thing we would look out for on that model is the sleeping arrangement. It has a high'ish level transverse dropdown bed, for many this will be fine, however gf gets claustrophobia in them.

[TonyC123]

Thanks Colin, and I must say I had a slight concern about the enclosed and claustrophobic nature of those drop down beds.

Because they're higher up, they will tend to be warmer than the lower level beds, and I'm not keen on that in anything except the coldest months.

I've got an almost irrational love for space and cool air in living/sleeping areas, so my only solution would be to have my feet towards the windscreen, so at least my head would have access to more open air space. It might also be worth using a small USB powered fan to shift the air around a bit.

I am a bit extreme about fresh air to be honest. When I lived alone I used to always sleep with a bedroom window ajar, and I'll look at ways of leaving a rooflight vent open from say March to November, providing there's an insect screen on it.

 

[Geeco]

Hi Tony, Your question re meeting a potential partner is an interesting one. We have two life long friends that are single, happen to be female one with a motorhome and the other with a caravan. Both are involved with either a singles motorhome club or a district caravan/motorhome club. Could be an option as if UK is like AU there are lots of single travellers with their own rigs. Cheers,

[76zedfour]

Why are you limiting to a 6m motorhome?

You can buy German, get the same layout as the rollerteam 590,yet get a big garage and wardrobe ideal for full timing at under 7m. Take a look at the dethleffs t6767, there are a couple on gumtree for under 50k at the minute, or i6767 if you want A class.

[TonyC123]

Hi Gary

 

Thanks very much for your thoughts on that. You have to imagine that there are probably lots of single females in the UK who own and use MHs/Caravans or similar, and I'm sure that on my travels I'll probably come across the odd one (and why is it everything I write suddenly sounds like clumsy innuendo?! oh dear)

 

I would put it this way: in general life there is a decent chance of occasionally meeting single people of whatever gender you are attracted to (unless you're a bit 'niche' in that respect perhaps). And every now and then, after bumping into someone a few times, you might become aware that they seem quite friendly or show signs of being attracted to you, and vice versa.

So you can tentatively talk about dates, meet up a few few times- and whatever else they do these days (it's been a while).

 

But as a nomad, spending half your time roving Europe and the other half on CLs or wilding, you would be moving on every few weeks, and in some cases every few days. So I'm guessing you might not share the social spaces for long enough to even find out that there might be a possible attraction.

 

Don't get me wrong- I don't want to make it sound as if seeking a relationship is my main consideration, or as if I'm some sort of woman-hungry lothario- in fact, using the word lothario in 2020 kind of rules you out from actually being one.

 

But I am interested to know if pursuing this lifestyle will (statistically at least), significantly reduce the number of day-to-day social interactions via which single people might normally meet and have some sort of conversation- and lets be honest, 90% of those end up with one party or the other walking away shaking their head in bemusement at how such a plonker as they've just met could be walking the streets without some some kind of badge or license.

 

I know there are singles/dating websites through which you can at least make opportunities to talk to or meet single people, but then there is the second part of the issue- which is that not many people of either sex favour a full time MH lifestyle. Certainly people around my age tend to like (or even need) their home comforts- as do I, to be fair.

So it may be that the nomadic lifestyle might have to be reduced somewhat if I were to have any chance of a relationship developing anyway.

I'm not sure that a great many women would come away impressed from any conversation that contained the phrase 'I live in a motorhome.'

 

Anyway, these are just some random thoughts. I dont want to spam the forum with trivial questions, but it seems significant enough of an issue that I could get away with asking a question here specifically on this issue, so I'll copy/paste some of these thoughts into a new question.

 

Cheers

Tony