Dacswells Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 To provide a bit of context. The 2020 Knaus Boxstar UK version is described as having a heads up display fitted as standard. When our van arrived a couple of weeks ago, the dealer seemed completely unaware of the existence of the HUD, even arguing that such an item does not exist until I showed him the spec and found the HUD unit in the cutlery draw. Asked when and how the unit was to be fitted the dealer suggested that he would remove the main SatNav unit and put the HUD in its place - not a good idea obviously! The van is now back at the dealers (for this and other remedial actions) and they seem bemused as to how to fit it. Just wondering if anyone has had any experience of having the heads up display fitted to the Knaus Boxstar because, frankly, I little confidence that the unit will be fitted properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 The Knaus HUD is shown in the image below. It’s also visible in this video-clip (about 2 minutes in) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uITG7tyJ0Hc (Presumably a Knaus dealership SHOULD be able to obtain installation instructions from the Knaus factory...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 Well, the unit is obviously one of these: https://www.fritz-berger.de/artikel/pioneer-sda-hu100-duc-head-up-display-fiat-ducato-nachruestset-133575 ...which may help with a search for instructions, though a quick search of Pioneer sites generically for "HUD" didn't come up with this. (This is a hit, but there are no downloads available :-( ) https://www.pioneer-car.eu/uk/products/avic-evo1-dt2-c-hu/support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 There's also this (in German) video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dacswells Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 Thank you Derek. Just had the dealer on asking if I knew how to fit it! Their electrical engineer had been around and was none the wiser not having seen it before. I have suggested that they might want to talk to Knaus as this will not be the last time they have this issue. I find it interesting that the demo van we saw seems to have been sold and it should have had the HUD included. Silly me for reading the spec!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dacswells Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 Thanks. That's the one. It does seem like trying to track down practical information about this is difficult. The instructions included with the unit mention nothing about how to fit it. Maybe that is why Knaus don't bother fitting it themselves! (?) *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 There are several YouTube videos about the Pioneer head-unit that the HUD connects to and I happened to come across this 2017 German one. There are two far from complimentary comments on it - this one 7 months old (GOOGLE-translated) The device is just garbage. Simply too confusing to use for quick use. Navigation changes cannot be made by the passenger while driving.This function is blocked. End of the announcement. and this 3-weeks-old complaint relating to a 2020 Weinsberg motorhome with the HUD: The device is the worst garbage there is! We have it in our 2020 Ducato Weinsberg and nothing works. Incl. Head-Up Display. Different speeds are permanently displayed on the monitor and HUD. Traffic signs and speed limits (whether in or outside of built-up areas) are displayed incorrectly and differently !!!! A joke. The device takes what feels like hours until it is ready to start. Touch display reacts incredibly badly. Route guidance not available. No matter which settings you choose, the routes are always long or lead nowhere. My 2007 TomTom is better and more reliable. Roads are bypassed, because allegedly there is a traffic jam or there are construction sites - but this is not the case! Dreadful. This was confirmed to me by other motorists I met in Italy a few weeks ago. Map update not possible! Despite hours of attempts (current computers with current operating systems), this was unsuccessful. A cheek to bring something like that on the market! My 2015 Rapido has Pioneer AVH 2700BT head-unit (no navigation) and I loathe it for its user-unfriendliness and lethargy. It has also ‘lost’ its radio AM capability - though that doesn’t much bother me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dacswells Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 Oh dear, doesn't sound too good but then I have always preferred the luddite approach of pen and paper to things over technology! In this case ,it is more a point of principle, that something which is included in a vehicle spec should be fitted and ready to use. The fact that an official dealer was unaware of the inclusion of the item, and denied its existence, just makes me more adamant that the problem must be resolved. And, to add closure to this thread, I got a phone call from the dealer last night, their sales director had been on to Knaus and, after four weeks of 'dither and delay' (two weeks from when the van arrived at the dealers and we raised the issue and two weeks since we picked th van up and noted the lack of the item) obtained the instructions on how to fit it and it has been fitted. How well itthe SatNav and HUD works we will have ti wait and see. Hopefully we get the van back this weekend with all the corrective actions sorted and 9 months after we placed the order we finally get to go away for the weekend somewhere for the first time and begin to enjoy it :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 I use occasionally the heads up with Sygic maps. Works really well in lesser light conditions. It’s a very cheap add on. But it does mean you don’t take yours eyes off the road to purposely look at your sat nav. I’m sure you’ll find it useful. Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Dacswells - 2020-10-07 8:22 AM ...Hopefully we get the van back this weekend with all the corrective actions sorted and 9 months after we placed the order we finally get to go away for the weekend somewhere for the first time and begin to enjoy it :-) Good job patience has to be one of your professional requirements. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dacswells Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 Thank you for the encouragement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dacswells Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 It is! And it is being tested the moment! Just when I thought I thought all had been resolved, I had an email from Knaus this morning and, as the saying goes, the plot thickens! They advised that: "the problem is that Pioneer still can’t provide the parts for right hand drive vehicles. At the moment we’re not able to tell when those parts are available. The HUD can and should be retrofitted by your dealer, as soon as we got information from Pioneer we will inform all our UK dealers how the retrofitting can be done." Leaves me wondering how ours has been fitted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 The blurb for the HUD states that speed and ‘driver asistance’ information (eg. traffic signs recognition data) can be displayed on the HUD without the Pioneer AVIC-EVO unit being installed. This suggests that there may be a connection between the HUD and the Ducato’s OBD socket that is beneath the dashboard on the vehicle’s left-hand side. If that’s so, then a longer cable would be needed for RHD vehicles as the HUD on the top of the dashboard will be further away from the OBD socket than on a LHD vehicle. It also might explain the data differences complained about on the German webapage that I mentioned above. If the HUD displays OBD-derived data and the Pioneer AVIC-EVO head-unit displays data from the navigation ‘black box’ it wouldn’t be too surprising that there’d be differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
360david Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 I have just purchased a new i live 700 Meg which the brochure states that HUD comes as standard fitting. My dealer said they have spoken to knaus and they have said it was incorrect and that the brochure was wrong. I investgated further and on another forum discovered the following. Knaus say that HUD was intended to be a standard fitting as it is in europe. However after printing the brochures Knaus discovered that pioneer were not manufacturing the bracket that the HUD sits on for right hand drive vehicles. Apparently this is being rectified but no date given for the new bracket being issued. Does anyone know where I or we stand legally. the brochure states HUD as a standard fitting. Dealer did not mention it until I asked how good it was. By now I had paid for the MHome. Im thinking trade descriptions etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Brochures often have a ‘variation’ disclaimer clause, but I don’t know if that’s the case with the Knaus document (that can be downloaded). It’s apparent from on-line adverts that the HUD device ain’t cheap. So as it is clearly stated in the English-language catalogue as being part of the Knaus standard specification and you anticipated having it, I suppose you might demand a refund of (say) £500. Or - if you believe a redesigned bracket will actually become available in the near future - you could wait for this to arrive and have your dealer retrofit the HUD unit then. Either way, you need to make your displeasure ‘officially’ known to your dealer and to Knaus and insist that Knaus confirm what they are going to do regarding UK models that should have had a HUD fitted but did not (Damian’s Boxstar had the HUD unit in the cutlery drawer on delivery and - seemingly - it has now been installed.) If Knaus say “Tough luck!” and your dealer proves to be unsympathetic (or uninterested) you can try the Trade Descriptions option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 For what it’s worth, this link shows that errors in motorhome brochures are far from unknown and that some of the errors could impact on a person’s purchasing decision. https://www.auto-trail.co.uk/brochure-updates The attached two files show the type of disclaimer often found in a brochure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dacswells Posted October 15, 2020 Author Share Posted October 15, 2020 Just got my van back from the dealer. My worst fears were confirmed. Knaus confirmed that the HUD was to be retrofitted but there was indeed no date as yet, they are waiting for details from Pioneer. My dealer (who I am on the verge of naming and shaming but still holding back) said they had obtained details from Knaus on how to fit the unit. One person said the Sales director had spoken to someone had to Knaus but when we picked it up they said they had just downloaded the fitting instructions from the website and proceeded with fitting it. It does seem that the dealers have not been informed about what is going on. Unfortunately even an amoeba should have realised that there was something wrong with the fit on our van. As Derek says, there is indeed a need for a new bracket to put the unit level so the driver can see the display. My dealer decided that this was not necessary, and fitted it directly to the back of the cowl over the display, so unless you stand directly over the top of the unit (not advisable when driving) nothing is visible! When this was pointed out to the dealer the response moved between Homer Simpson's famous 'doh' (when they realised what had been done) and Basil Fawlty's 'well you asked us to fit it, and we did, it works, so what's the problem if you can't see anything?' needless to say, not impressed that the fitting of the unit has been botched and os not fit for purpose - and the customers concerned have been dismissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dacswells Posted October 15, 2020 Author Share Posted October 15, 2020 If you want a copy of the email sent to me from Knaus on the subject of the HUD, I can send it through for you as evidence of what is 'meant' to be happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 As you’ve rightly said, that installation is hopeless and it’s clear that the ‘bracket’ in your photo is quite different from the one that’s bespoke when this Pioneer HUD is fitted to a LHD Ducato (image attached). I’d like to see the Knaus email, if you’d forward it to the address below (deleted) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dacswells Posted October 16, 2020 Author Share Posted October 16, 2020 copy sent. I do agree that Davan have been hopeless in this regard; their 'bracket' is obviously invisible or maybe we have missed the extending bracket that raises and lowers the HUD! Having worked in the aerospace industry for many years before changing career (and with my wife still working in the industry) the idea of service bulletins informing customers of issues is second nature. What I do not understand is that a quick email to Knaus identified the problem: "My question is whether the HUD unit should have been fitted at the factory or whether it is to be fitted at the dealership?" What I do not understand is why the dealer was unable/unwilling to make that simple contact and initially denied even the existence fo the HUD until it was taken out of a drawer in front of them. I would have been happy to have been told, by the dealer, that the HUD would be retrofitted at some date in the future. I do think that this is going to be an issue in the UK for new Knaus owners if the dealers are a) unaware of the issue with the HUD, b) apparently reluctant to talk to Knaus when customers raise the issue and c) attempt to fix (botch?) the HUD without the proper parts. Anyway on a lighter note, looking to our first overnight adventure with the van tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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