flyboyprowler Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Does anyone have a definitive answer as to whether flat beam or LED headlights, can be legally used without a beam corrector on the continent and in the UK, in the case of LHD vans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 LED headlights may, or may not, be flat beam (by which I assume you mean dipped beams with no nearside "kick up"), so I'm not sure why you've linked them. However, the legal requirement, as I understand it, is that you must not cause dazzle to oncoming traffic. Correctly adjusted "flat dipped beam" lights should not cause dazzle in either right hand or left hand traffic, so should not cause an infringement of lighting regulations. LED headlamps are a rather different matter. Lighting regulations place a Wattage limit on the main and dipped beam outputs of filament lamps. As this does not translate for LED lamp outputs, the strength limit has been expressed in Lux, but MoT test equipment cannot measure Lux, so there is, in practice, no check that can be applied once the vehicle is registered for road use. There are a range of LED (and Xenon) conversion lamps that I am convinced a) are way more powerful than their halogen counterparts, and b) do not centre properly on the reflectors, so that the beam is not adequately controlled. My perception is that many vehicles are being driven with excessively high set dipped beams, that also have greater than legal light outputs. Many of these vehicles seem to be relatively new, but I have no idea whether their lights are as originally supplied, or have been "tweaked" by owners seeking greater illumination. All I know is that a growing number cause dazzle when oncoming, while others manage to shine dipped beams directly into my interior mirror when following. I suspect these are not legal, but in the absence of Lux measurement at MoT time, I can't see much likelihood of owners being required to either re-align (I'm assuming they pass the normal alignment test) the headlamps, or replace the lamps with compliant ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 Thank you Brian, I have been told by my local motorhome dealer in Spain that the so called modern "flat" dipped headlight if supplied to a new van means that I wouldn't have to have the headlights changed when importing into the UK. Also, as we are frequently in and out of the UK, I would like to avoid always having to change the stick-ons each time we come or go! I appreciate your thoughts on the changing of bulbs to brighter ones, and the arrival of zenon indeed being at times a driving nuisance. The LED option on the van we are looking at to buy new is not cheap, but would be worth it, to save changing the stickers each time. Ainsley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Ainsley Importing a left-hand-drive motorhome into the UK will require completion of the VCA form shown here https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/607594/apply-commission-notice-motorhomes.pdf The motorhome being imported must comply with the following headlamp requirements ....................................................................................................................... "1) That the headlamps are UK specification (headlight beam dips to the left). Note: stickers, beam-benders / deflectors are not acceptable. We can accept any one of the following options: a) UK specification, left dipping, headlights that are used in replacement of the original factory fitted headlights b) Original factory fitted UK specification headlights (dipping left as standard) c) Original factory fitted headlights that are, through a standard feature of the vehicle, adjustable so that the beam can be changed from right dipping to left dipping d) Original factory fitted flat-beam headlights (we can not accept a right dipping beam that is adjusted to flat-beam unless that is a standard feature of the vehicle, e.g. done via operation of a lever)” ....................................................................................................................... The norm for halogen-bulb headlamps is that they will dip to whichever side of the road the vehicle is designed to be driven on. So the standard headlamps of a LHD motorhome will dip to the right and the standard headlamps of a RHD motorhome will dip to the left. The headlamps of A-class motorhomes can sometimes be twiddled with to alter the dipped-beam pattern via a lever within the light-unit, but I’m not certain how many (if any) motorhomes have ‘original factory fitted flat-beam headlights’. For as long as I remember there has been a belief within the motorcaravanning community that the headlamps of Continental-European vehicles have a ‘flat’ dipped-beam pattern and, while a few may, most LHD vehicles have headlamps that dip to the right with a pronounced ‘kick-up’ on the right end of the beam pattern. In order to pass the UK’s MOT test this type of headlamp can have a beam-converter or mask temporarily fitted to it to remove the kick-up https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/m4s01000801.htm but that approach does not comply with the importing procedure. There’s information on the Hella website about various types of headlamp https://www.hella.com/hella-com/en/Headlamps-620.html I assume you are referring to a LHD Niesmann+Bischoff model, but I don’t know what sort of beam pattern the halogen version of the N+B low-beam headlamp produces, nor what the pattern is for the LED equivalent. You need to find out if the beam-pattern of the lamp-unit fitted as standard to a LHD N+B can meet (or can be adjusted to meet) the UK importing requirements, as if it will you would not need to be considering the LED option. Similarly, before opting for the more expensive LED lighting system, you REALLY need to confirm what dipped-beam pattern is produced and whether this pattern meets (or can be adjusted to meet) the UK importing requirements. These may be the LED lamp-units N+B fits (but that’s just a guess) and it would be inefficient to fit beam converters to this size/design of unit. https://en.noldengmbh.de/en/products/motorhome-bus Cannot N+B advise you regarding the ‘adjustability’ of their dipped-beam light units? If not, you might try asking Travelworld https://www.motorhomes.co.uk/ as they will be marketing new RHD N+Bs and buyers will want to know about headlight ‘legality’ when driving in Continental Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 Thanks as always Derek, We leave Spain soon, to travel back to the UK and are going via the N-B factory possibly also the Stuttgart show, and then a dealer in Dortmund who apparently does a lot of business with UK buyers, and somewhere along the line I should get an answer to the headlamp issue. One of the members of the N-B owners forum had left dip headlights fitted from order in Dortmund, so that option is definitely available. However, the lights on our Le V, albeit 6 years old now, are pathetic, which is one reason for going down the LED road. Incidentally LED head and fog lights are given as an option in the N-B UK brochure, so that may be a clue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 ...I'm not really sure this helps, but if they are the Nolden units, they appear to exist in 3 different versions (well, six really as each comes in two colours). The German catalogue gives details of an ECE (presumably LHD version), an ECE (definitely RHD version), and an SAE version. The existence of a RHD version may be indicative that the standard ECE units are asymmetrical for LHD (but, of course, may not ;-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 flyboyprowler - 2018-01-02 8:18 PM Thank you Brian, I have been told by my local motorhome dealer in Spain that the so called modern "flat" dipped headlight if supplied to a new van means that I wouldn't have to have the headlights changed when importing into the UK. Also, as we are frequently in and out of the UK, I would like to avoid always having to change the stick-ons each time we come or go! I appreciate your thoughts on the changing of bulbs to brighter ones, and the arrival of zenon indeed being at times a driving nuisance. The LED option on the van we are looking at to buy new is not cheap, but would be worth it, to save changing the stickers each time. Ainsley Ah ha! :-) I didn't pick up from your original post, Ainsley, that your query relates to a new van to be imported into UK. Derek's comments above are spot on regarding the requirements for VCA, ideally through the Mutual Recognition procedure, to issue a Individual Approval Certificate (IAC), and also on the requirement for left dipping to be achieved without recourse to masks or "beam benders". Our Hymer (supplied by Durrwang - Morlein of Dortmund , via Bundesvan) had headlights that were adjustable from right dipping to a flat topped beam by manipulation of a lever incorporated into the lamp unit. Access to the lever is difficult so, once changed, I never bothered to reinstate the right dipping pattern. However, we seldom drive after lighting-up time, so the only use the headlamps got was tunnels and poor visibility. Be aware that you'll have to supply an invoice for fitting left dipping headlamps, (or a report confirming that they have been adjusted to dip left or flat), plus the conversion of the speedometer dial to show MPH and KPH, plus whatever adaptation is required to the rear fog light/s, on a recognised garage's headed paper, to gain the IAC. You will not be able to register the vehicle with DVLA until you have the IAC. I think your Spanish dealer is wrong, unless he is speaking of a genuinely flat topped beam. I doubt that this would be the case because, although acceptable in use, it doesn't fully comply with EU lighting requirements, so would be very unlikely to gain European Type Approval. I very much endorse Derek's comments regarding being absolutely certain about the dipped beam pattern before ordering because paying extra for LED headlamps, and than having to pay again for left dipping ones to gain an IAC, and then needing to switch between the two for use in UK/Europe, could turn out a costly and irksome mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 Spookily Brian, we are most probably going to be dealing with Durrwang, and it also appears that they will certainly know what is required as far as the correct fitting is concerned. However,, today I saw a 2 year old Flair, in Germany, that could suit our needs, but at a big discount on the new price!! That will certainly need changing if imported into the UK. Somehow I think we would be better to go down the new route from a good dealer, and bite the bullet on future depreciation. This however will be the last van we buy, so it has to be as right as possible. Thanks again for your input. Ainsley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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