You are logged in as a guest. 
  Home Forums Home  Search our Forums Search our Forums    Log in to the Forums Log in to the Forums  register Register on the Forums  

 Forums ->  Motorhomes -> Motorhome Matters
Jump to page : First 1 2 3 NextLast
Format:  Go
LHD headlight deflectors
AuthorMessage
userBarcobird
Posted: 11 February 2019 5:21 PM
Subject: LHD headlight deflectors
 


A posting machine

Posts: 341
10010010025
Location: Redditch/Vilamoura.2017 Pilote 741G 150bhp LHD


I know this subject has been touched on before and in last years replies it was confirmed the Fiat x290 euro 6 model does not have the facility for swapping from one side to the other.
I am a little confused because I believe a LHD vehicle ( which mine is purchased new from France ) must qualify for VCA regulations if imported and registered in the UK. The reason I ask is because on its next anniversary it is due for its mot. So IS there an adjuster, if not how was mine legally imported and can I use a set of benders to get it through the mot.
Incidentally the rear fog and reversing lights are also set up for LHD !!
I realise that needs attention as well.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 11 February 2019 6:27 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


5000500050002000
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Having trawled back througfh your earlier postings I believe you bought a new Pilote G741 “Sensation” in early 2017.

I’m not 100% certain which headlamps your motorhome has, but I think that - by 2017 - Pilote had dropped their historic A-class arrangement of four small round headlamps and had begun to use the same headlamps as fitted to Ducato X290 vans as shown in the attached photo.

If you personally imported and UK-registered your LHD Pilote from France, it would have been your responsibility to ensure that the vehicle met UK-norm requirements - headlamps that met the UK dipped-beam-pattern criteria, an ‘offside’ or central rear foglamp and a speedometer capable of providing an mph readout (as well as a km/h one). If you did not import/register the vehicle yourself, whoever did should have addressed those UK-registration requirements.

Ducato headlamps have no adjustment capability to ‘convert’ right-dipping headlamps to left-dipping ones, nor vice versa. However, you should be able to pass the headlamp part of the MOT test by using ‘benders’ or ‘masks’. This is referred to in Paragraph 4.1.2 here

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/Section-4-Lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment.html#section_4.1

Reversing lights are not part of the MOT test procedure, but a rear foglamp must be on the UK offside or central (Paragraph 4.51)

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/Section-4-Lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment.html#section_4.5

When my Rapido (also LHD)was UK-registered in 2015 its right-dipping headlamps were replaced by left-dipping ones and its original km/h-only speedometer face was changed to a mph + km/h one, There was no need to do anything about the rear foglamps as the Rapido has a foglamp (and a reversing light) in both rear-light clusters.



(Pilote.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Pilote.jpg (37KB - 57 downloads)
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 11 February 2019 6:28 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


5000500050001000500
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


How was it legally registered? Dunno!

Ours was equipped with left dipping headlamps on importation, before being registered in UK. Being a Ducato based PVC it already had rear fog, and reversing, lights on both sides, so needed no further intervention on the lights. I now have both left and right dipping headlamps, and swapping for MoT, or use in UK or abroad, is quite easy. The only other change made for UK registration was to swap the original KPH speedometer card for a Lockwood International MPH/KPH card.

It looks as though you may possibly have to buy UK pattern rear fog and reversing lamp units and swap the wiring to feed as appropriate. Looks likely to be costly!

But, if the LED lamp units can be detached from the lamp holders (and possibly inverted to fit if curved), and fitted on opposite sides, the wiring could be extended left to right and vice versa to feed accordingly. If you permanently install a simple pair of wires and label them accordingly, with earth connections if required, these could be left in place and the lamps swapped back to their original configuration for use abroad, and then reversed back again at UK MoT time.
userlaimeduck
Posted: 11 February 2019 6:51 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


Epic contributor

Posts: 1592
1000500252525
Location: 2005 Benimar Perseo 710CCX


Derek Uzzell - 2019-02-11 6:27 PM


Reversing lights are not part of the MOT test procedure, but a rear foglamp must be on the UK offside or central (Paragraph 4.51)



Derek that is not correct - In fact reversing lights are now part of the MOT test on vehicles made after 2009.

I had my MOT last week and the reversing light bulb had gone. They also failed it on the 2 front indicator bulbs, which are orange bulbs, not being the "required colour"! How ludicrous?
I was quite happy as they were the only fail points. (They entirely missed the fact that for some reason my Benimar does not have a CAT and I am told that a 2005 vehicle should have had one fitted)
userBarcobird
Posted: 11 February 2019 7:20 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


A posting machine

Posts: 341
10010010025
Location: Redditch/Vilamoura.2017 Pilote 741G 150bhp LHD


Derek, after spending in excess of 70 grand I expected the importing dealer for Pilote to attend to all paperwork matters and in a correct manner. I’m just a little miffed at how a main dealer has managed to import this in its current state, a mph/kph speedo card was fitted. He did say at the time when the mot’s due bring it back and we will sort it out. Perhaps Brian they will do as you suggest extend the cables on both sides and then plug them in, they are easily interchangeable. Hopefully the benders will suffice for the mot.
Jeremy I think you will find if a reversing light is fitted then it has to work but I don’t believe it’s compulsory to fit one.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 11 February 2019 8:53 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


5000500050002000
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Jeremy is correct.

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/Section-4-Lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment.html#section_4.6

Paragraph 4.6.2 - Compliance with requirements

You must inspect all reversing lamps fitted to vehicles first used from 1 September 2009.

Reversing lamps must show a white light to the rear. On some vehicles it may be necessary to have the engine running before the reversing lamps will work.

At least one reversing lamp must be fitted.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 12 February 2019 8:16 AM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


5000500050002000
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


laimeduck - 2019-02-11 6:51 PM

...I had my MOT last week and the reversing light bulb had gone. They also failed it on the 2 front indicator bulbs, which are orange bulbs, not being the "required colour"! How ludicrous?
I was quite happy as they were the only fail points. (They entirely missed the fact that for some reason my Benimar does not have a CAT and I am told that a 2005 vehicle should have had one fitted)


Can you please expand on the sentence "They also failed it on the 2 front indicator bulbs, which are orange bulbs, not being the "required colour”?

The MOT-test requirements for a vehicle’s direction indicators are stated within Section 4.4 here

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/Section-4-Lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment.html#section_4.4

All that is said is that (for vehicles first used from 1 September 1965) “Direction indicators must be amber” - it is not stated how the “amber” requirement must be met.

Historically, It used to be standard practice for direction indicators to comprise a white bulb behind an amber ‘lens', but it’s commonplace now for the bulb to be amber (orange) and the ‘lens’ to be clear (white). In the latter case, MOT-test failure should (obviously) occur if a non-amber bulb were fitted to the direction indicator, or the amber bulb produces some white light, or the amber bulb has degraded so that the amount of light it produces is much reduced. The relevant major defect is listed in the MOT manual as

"Lamp emitted colour, position or intensity not in accordance with the requirements”

The MOT-test checks for compression-ignition engines (ie. diesels) are stated in Section 8.2.2 here

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/Section-8-Nuisance.html#section_8.2

and begins

8.2.2.1 Exhaust emission control equipment
You only need to check components that are visible and identifiable, such as diesel oxidation catalysts, diesel particulate filters, exhaust gas recirculation valves and selective catalytic reduction valves.

If a diesel particulate filter has clearly been cut open and rewelded, you should reject it unless the vehicle presenter can show evidence that there was a valid reason to cut it open, such as for filter cleaning.


If there’s nothing visible to suggest that your 2005 Benimar was originally fitted with a catalytic converter (or DPF) that was later removed, there’s no real reason for the MOT-tester to fail the vehicle.

This 2018 article

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/apr/14/mot-changes-strict-tests-diesel-cars-fail

contains the throw-away line

"Most at risk are drivers of any diesel car from around 2006 onwards – models that came with a diesel particulate filter (DPF) to clean up its emissions.”

but this relates to DPFs not ‘cats’.

I vaguely remember, when I owned a 1996-built Ford Transit-based Herald motorhome, that there was a warning in the Herald Club magazine about not parking in long grass as the hot catalytic converter might set the grass alight. Even back then some diesel-fuelled Transits (apparently) had ‘cats’ fitted, but most (including mine) did not.

This advert suggests that ‘cats’ could have been fitted to Ducatos with the 2.8litre motor from 1998-onwards

https://www.cats2u.co.uk/2389-28

so either your 2005 Benimar had one and it was taken off in the past, or it never had one to begin with.
userlaimeduck
Posted: 12 February 2019 8:43 AM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


Epic contributor

Posts: 1592
1000500252525
Location: 2005 Benimar Perseo 710CCX


Derek - As far as I'm aware my Benimar never had a CAT. I had to replace that section of the exhaust in 2017 and the fitting garage insisted it should have a CAT. I decided to replace like with like and insisted on no CAT.
The front indicator bulbs were orange but the inspector decided they were the "wrong orange" - even though they'd been on the van AFAIK since manufacture.

Given that lots of cars you see driving around today have a headlight or tailight or brakelight not working, or headlights that blind you (as recent thread), an indicator bulb a few pantone units off orange doesn't seem like a "major defect" to me! See photo
Pedantry of the highest order I reckon?

Edited by laimeduck 2019-02-12 8:49 AM




(20190212_082924.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 20190212_082924.jpg (35KB - 55 downloads)
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 12 February 2019 8:50 AM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


5000500050002000
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Barcobird - 2019-02-11 7:20 PM

Derek, after spending in excess of 70 grand I expected the importing dealer for Pilote to attend to all paperwork matters and in a correct manner. I’m just a little miffed at how a main dealer has managed to import this in its current state, a mph/kph speedo card was fitted...


That the UK Pilote dealership fitted a mph/kmh dial-face to your motorhome’s speedometer shows that the dealer was aware of that particular requirement for UK-registration.

The headlamps/speedometer/fog-light requirements (and how they may be met) are listed here

https://tinyurl.com/y2pcttu2

and, if your Pilote was delivered to the UK dealership with right-dipping Ducato X290 headlamps, the only acceptable means to comply with the UK’s registration requirements would be to replace those headlamps with left-dipping equivalents (which the UK Rapido dealership did in my motorhome’s case).

Sticking benders or masks temporarily to the headlamps to allow the motorhome to pass the MOT-test still doesn’t address the fact that the headlamps should have been swapped to begin with, though - as you chose LHD and probably motorcaravan mostly outside the UK - having right-dipping headlamps has attractions as they are certainly superior when driving on the right.

Your Pilote’s UK-nearside rear fog-light is clearly ‘wrong’, and there’s no excuse for the UK dealer not dealing with this before you took delivery of the motorhome. Compliance (VCA and MOT) could be achieved by attaching an extra ‘offside’ fog-light to the motorhome’s rear bumper (a common historic ploy when LHD motorhomes were personally imported) but that’s an untidy approach.

userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 12 February 2019 9:06 AM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


5000500050002000
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


laimeduck - 2019-02-12 8:43 AM

Derek - As far as I'm aware my Benimar never had a CAT. I had to replace that section of the exhaust in 2017 and the fitting garage insisted it should have a CAT. I decided to replace like with like and insisted on no CAT.
The front indicator bulbs were orange but the inspector decided they were the "wrong orange" - even though they'd been on the van AFAIK since manufacture.

Given that lots of cars you see driving around today have a headlight or tailight or brakelight not working, or headlights that blind you (as recent thread), an indicator bulb a few pantone units off orange doesn't seem like a "major defect" to me! See photo
Pedantry of the highest order I reckon?


The obvious way to decide if the MOT-tester was being overly picky would be to replace one of your Benimar’s “incorrect colour” direction indicator bulbs with a new bulb that produced a ‘correct colour’ that the tester was happy with and compare the result with the other “incorrect colour” direction indicator. If there’s little or no difference, then the tester was being picky: if there’s a major colour improvement wiith the indicator with the replacement bulb, then the tester’s decision was probably right.

As I understand the current MOT-test rules, the tester did not need to inspect your 2005 Benimar’s reversing light as reversing-light checking only applies to 1 September 2009-onwards vehicles. So, even though your Benimar’s reversing light’s bulb had failed, that should not have resulted in an MOT-test failure.
userlaimeduck
Posted: 12 February 2019 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


Epic contributor

Posts: 1592
1000500252525
Location: 2005 Benimar Perseo 710CCX


Derek Uzzell - 2019-02-12 9:06 AM

The obvious way to decide if the MOT-tester was being overly picky would be to replace one of your Benimar’s “incorrect colour” direction indicator bulbs with a new bulb that produced a ‘correct colour’ that the tester was happy with and compare the result with the other “incorrect colour” direction indicator. If there’s little or no difference, then the tester was being picky: if there’s a major colour improvement wiith the indicator with the replacement bulb, then the tester’s decision was probably right.



Not a viable option as the original bulbs were binned by my garage and in any event it is quite a palaver to replace bulbs on the 2005 Ducato & to be perfectly honest I'm really not that bothered.
It still seems harsh to me!
userBarcobird
Posted: 12 February 2019 9:23 AM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


A posting machine

Posts: 341
10010010025
Location: Redditch/Vilamoura.2017 Pilote 741G 150bhp LHD


That the UK Pilote dealership fitted a mph/kmh dial-face to your motorhome’s speedometer shows that the dealer was aware of that particular requirement for UK-registration.The headlamps/speedometer/fog-light requirements (and how they may be met) are listed herehttps://tinyurl.com/y2pcttu2and, if your Pilote was delivered to the UK dealership with right-dipping Ducato X290 headlamps, the only acceptable means to comply with the UK’s registration requirements would be to replace those headlamps with left-dipping equivalents (which the UK Rapido dealership did in my motorhome’s case). Sticking benders or masks temporarily to the headlamps to allow the motorhome to pass the MOT-test still doesn’t address the fact that the headlamps should have been swapped to begin with, though - as you chose LHD and probably motorcaravan mostly outside the UK - having right-dipping headlamps has attractions as they are certainly superior when driving on the right.Your Pilote’s UK-nearside rear fog-light is clearly ‘wrong’, and there’s no excuse for the UK dealer not dealing with this before you took delivery of the motorhome. Compliance (VCA and MOT) could be achieved by attaching an extra ‘offside’ fog-light to the motorhome’s rear bumper (a common historic ploy when LHD motorhomes were personally imported) but that’s an untidy approach.


That's very interesting Derek, obviously VCA requirements would have to comply prior to a V5 being issued. This would I presume involve a physical check of the vehicle much as in the same way as the MOT. Therefore would a VCA certificate be produced and if so would it be retained by the dealer or sent with the application for the V5 ?

Is there an easy way of  determining which headlights are fitted?

Also you mention adding a second fog lamp on the other side, so it doesn't matter about the position of the reversing light ?
usercolin
Posted: 12 February 2019 10:11 AM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


Legendary contributor

Posts: 7647
5000200050010025
Location: Bedfordshire, Globecar 636SB


Barcobird - 2019-02-12 9:23 AM

Is there an easy way of  determining which headlights are fitted?

When it's dark enough drive up to a wall, garage door, whatever, the kick up to the left of RHD lights is obvious.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 12 February 2019 2:08 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


5000500050002000
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Barcobird - 2019-02-12 9:23 AM

That the UK Pilote dealership fitted a mph/kmh dial-face to your motorhome’s speedometer shows that the dealer was aware of that particular requirement for UK-registration.The headlamps/speedometer/fog-light requirements (and how they may be met) are listed herehttps://tinyurl.com/y2pcttu2and, if your Pilote was delivered to the UK dealership with right-dipping Ducato X290 headlamps, the only acceptable means to comply with the UK’s registration requirements would be to replace those headlamps with left-dipping equivalents (which the UK Rapido dealership did in my motorhome’s case). Sticking benders or masks temporarily to the headlamps to allow the motorhome to pass the MOT-test still doesn’t address the fact that the headlamps should have been swapped to begin with, though - as you chose LHD and probably motorcaravan mostly outside the UK - having right-dipping headlamps has attractions as they are certainly superior when driving on the right.Your Pilote’s UK-nearside rear fog-light is clearly ‘wrong’, and there’s no excuse for the UK dealer not dealing with this before you took delivery of the motorhome. Compliance (VCA and MOT) could be achieved by attaching an extra ‘offside’ fog-light to the motorhome’s rear bumper (a common historic ploy when LHD motorhomes were personally imported) but that’s an untidy approach.


That's very interesting Derek, obviously VCA requirements would have to comply prior to a V5 being issued. This would I presume involve a physical check of the vehicle much as in the same way as the MOT. Therefore would a VCA certificate be produced and if so would it be retained by the dealer or sent with the application for the V5 ?

Is there an easy way of  determining which headlights are fitted?

Also you mention adding a second fog lamp on the other side, so it doesn't matter about the position of the reversing light ?


The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 cover reversing lamps here

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/14/made

The current MOT-test requirements are that - for vehicles first used from 1 September 2009 - all the vehicle’s reversing lamps must be inspected. This implies that, from 09/2009, it became compulsory for new vehicles to be built with a reversing-lamp, but it’s likely that the ‘characteristics’ (number of lamps, position, etc.) are unaltered.

When there’s a single fog-lamp on the vehicle’s ‘offside’, the norm is to have a single reversing-lamp on the vehicle’s nearside (on the right on your LHD Pilote) or (as on my Rapido) to have a rear fog-lamp and a reversing-lamp on both sides. There’s nothing in the MOT-test requirements defining where the reversing-lamp should be positioned, nor in the VCA requirements relating to an imported LHD motorhome.

I don’t know what arrangements with the VCA/DVLA a UK motor dealership might have where UK-registering a new LHD motorhome is concerned. I have Fiat and Rapido Certificates of Conformity for my Rapido, but not a VCA certificate of any sort. Suggest you explore this with the dealer you got the Pilote from.

The simplest way to determine the headlamps' dipped-beam pattern would be as Colin has advised, but your comment "He did say at the time when the mot’s due bring it back and we will sort it out” suggests that the dealer was aware that your motorhome has non-UK-compliant right-dipping headlamps.

(This is just curiosity, but in your original posting you said "The reason I ask is because on its next anniversary it is due for its mot”. Presumably that will be in March 2020?)
userBarcobird
Posted: 12 February 2019 2:34 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


A posting machine

Posts: 341
10010010025
Location: Redditch/Vilamoura.2017 Pilote 741G 150bhp LHD


Curiosity Derek was because I have certificate of conformity from Pilote, Alko and Fiat and didn't know if I should have a VCA as well.
The main reason is because as you suggest this time next year it's due it's first mot which is how the conversation started.
Yes the dealer did say bring it back and we will sort the MOT out (verbally) but I don't want to rely on them forever. Sometimes it might be a dash over the channel and into the nearest test station in Dover. 
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 12 February 2019 6:36 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


5000500050002000
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


As your Pilote was first UK-registered in 2017 when it was new, it definitely should have had it’s ‘wrong side’ rear fog-lamp attended to then and, as it probably still has right-dipping headlamps (presumably these are the ordinary X290 headlamps shown in the photo on my posting of 11 February 2019 6:27 PM above?) then these should also have been replaced in 2017 with UK-compliant left-dipping headlamps.

It’s all very well the vendor of your motorhome telling you in 2017 that they would “sort out the MOT” three years later. How were they planning to do this - by sticking benders/masks on the lights or (as should have happened before the Pilote was UK-registered) by replacing the headlamps with left-dippers? How did they know that you’d still have the Pilote in 2020, or that you’d be taking the motorhome back to the dealership (assuming it was stil trading!) for the MOT in 2020?

It would be interesting to kmow the VCA’s and the DVLA’s ‘take’ on your motorhome regarding its legality and on the dealership not making the necessary lighting alterations before it was UK-registered.

I have to admit that, when I personally-imported a LHD Hobby motorhome from Germany in 2005 I never changed the right-dipping headlamps and retained the km/h-only speedometer (the Hobby had a rear fog-lamp on each side). But things were much slacker then rules-wise and the chances were minimal that the vehicle would be inspected at the UK-registration stage. As, by 2005 and since, all of my motorhome usage has been/is outside the UK (overlooking the trips to and from the ferry and for servicing) I’d prefer ight-dipping headlamps and a km/h speedometer that’s readable, but my preferences don’t change what the DVLA demands.
userdavidmac
Posted: 12 February 2019 7:48 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 
Gets involved

Posts: 226
10010025
Location: Bedford Rapido 966M 3lt auto


Hi, how I read the regulations regarding importing a lhd spec vehicle into the U.K. when applying for registration you should enclose documentation stating how and what changes have been made and a copy of the invoice from a properly registered garage (V.A.T. ETC.) to verify the work carried out. Your supplier must have filled the paperwork in correctly but failed to carry out the work correctly. This is how self regulation works.
Regards David
userBarcobird
Posted: 12 February 2019 7:57 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


A posting machine

Posts: 341
10010010025
Location: Redditch/Vilamoura.2017 Pilote 741G 150bhp LHD


davidmac - 2019-02-12 7:48 PMHi, how I read the regulations regarding importing a lhd spec vehicle into the U.K. when applying for registration you should enclose documentation stating how and what changes have been made and a copy of the invoice from a properly registered garage (V.A.T. ETC.) to verify the work carried out. Your supplier must have filled the paperwork in correctly but failed to carry out the work correctly. This is how self regulation works.Regards David

So the vehicle is never physically inspected for the VCA ?
userrael
Posted: 12 February 2019 9:26 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 
Liking what I've found

Posts: 57
2525
Location: West Sussex. Challenger Vany 2018 LHD 2.3 130bhp


VCA do not inspect the vehicle. If you import a LHD you have to change the headlights (unless they are switchable), change to a MPH speedo and ensure the rear fog light is on the correct side. The garage where this work is done have to provide a written statement to the effect the work has been done. VCA then issue you with a Certificate of Mutual Recognition which you need to register the vehicle with DVLA. See this link for more information

Link to Gov.uk

Having imported a 2018 Challenger Vany recently, the biggest and most costly issue is the headlights. I won't go into details here, but its not always simply a matter of buying LHD lights and sticking them in. There are new regulations regarding daytime running lights that also need to be considered, albeit they won't be MOT tested for another 2/3 years yet.

There is actually nothing to stop a garage/dealership importing a LHD vehicle, filling out the CMR application and submitting it without actually doing the work, or only partially doing it. The only 'proof' needed is a letter from the garage saying the work has been done. This is probably illegal and could also impact on the vehicle insurance, so not to be recommended.

As Derek mentioned, back in 2005 importing was a very simple matter. In 2004 I imported a Buerstner 747, and simply brought it into UK, registered it in 20 minutes at Maidstone and that was it. It has become much more complicated.

If your 2017 motorhome does not have RHD lights and it is UK registered then somewhere along the line someone has cut corners and possibly been economical with the truth! I think Id be going back to the garage/dealership and asking how a vehicle with LHD lights was granted a Certificate of Mutual Recognition.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 13 February 2019 8:03 AM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


5000500050002000
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Back in the day, UK-registration of an imported LHD motorhome was a pretty laid-back process where conforming with the UK’s ‘technical’ regulations was concerned. Once the vehicle had been registered, as long as its rear fog-lamp was on the UK-offside, passing the MOT-test was normally straightforward. As I did in 2005, the motorhome’s owner just trotted along to a convenient DVLA local office, gave them the relevant documentation and some money and that was that. The possibility existed of the motorhome being inspected to confirm its compliance with UK regulations, but this rarely happened. It was well recognised, however, that personal importers were flouting the rules (not changing headlamps, speedometer, etc.) and around 2006 inspection prior to UK-registration became commonplace. This 2007 forum thread discussed this

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/DVLA-and-VOSA-/7002/

The VCA application procedure (link provided in rael’s posting) needs to be followed by a ‘personal importer’ of a LHD motorhome, but I‘m not certain if that’s also true when a motorhome dealership will be UK-registering a LHD vehicle. One would EXPECT it to be true, but that doesn’t make it true...

Athough the VCA application procedure does not involve the VCA physically inspecting the motorhome to confirm that UK-regulation compliance has been achieved, the DVLA still retains the option to do this. (“How to register” section in following link)

https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/registering-an-imported-vehicle

userBulletguy
Posted: 13 February 2019 2:35 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


The special one

Posts: 10489
50005000100100100100252525
Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


laimeduck - 2019-02-12 9:17 AM

Derek Uzzell - 2019-02-12 9:06 AM

The obvious way to decide if the MOT-tester was being overly picky would be to replace one of your Benimar’s “incorrect colour” direction indicator bulbs with a new bulb that produced a ‘correct colour’ that the tester was happy with and compare the result with the other “incorrect colour” direction indicator. If there’s little or no difference, then the tester was being picky: if there’s a major colour improvement wiith the indicator with the replacement bulb, then the tester’s decision was probably right.



Not a viable option as the original bulbs were binned by my garage and in any event it is quite a palaver to replace bulbs on the 2005 Ducato & to be perfectly honest I'm really not that bothered.
It still seems harsh to me!

Does seem that way from your description. Is there a noticeable difference between the two? As the van had passed MOT's with your previous bulbs, it sounds more to me like this tester was 'on the make' as i'm assuming you had the replacements fitted by them?
userlaimeduck
Posted: 13 February 2019 2:53 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


Epic contributor

Posts: 1592
1000500252525
Location: 2005 Benimar Perseo 710CCX


Bulletguy - 2019-02-13 2:35 PM

to replace one of your Benimar’s “incorrect colour” direction indicator bulbs with a new bulb that produced a ‘correct colour’ that the tester was happy with and compare the result with the other “incorrect colour” direction indicator. If there’s little or no difference, then the tester was being picky: if there’s a major colour improvement wiith the indicator with the replacement bulb, then the tester’s decision was probably right.


Does seem that way from your description. Is there a noticeable difference between the two? As the van had passed MOT's with your previous bulbs, it sounds more to me like this tester was 'on the make' as i'm assuming you had the replacements fitted by them?
I have no idea of they look different. I sit in the van and switch things on and my wife simply checks that they are working.
My garage is independent of the MOT Station & not in their pocket. My garage decided not to query it the new bulbs were less than £2 each so their expression was " We'll let them have that one"!
usermonique.hubrechts@gm
Posted: 13 February 2019 4:05 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


Epic contributor

Posts: 1374
10001001001002525
Location: essen belgium


There are a lot of differences between a RHD and LHD. Good luck to make a Siamese twin of it.
userrael
Posted: 13 February 2019 5:25 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 
Liking what I've found

Posts: 57
2525
Location: West Sussex. Challenger Vany 2018 LHD 2.3 130bhp


There is also a certain irony/contradiction about the whole headlights issue. If you import a van to the UK you have to have RHD lights fitted to comply with VCA, Certificate of conformity. For MOT purposes its apparently ok to put 'beam benders' on LHD lights to get it through MOT. I still have not got my head around that. It could be that importers/dealers are fudging the Certificate of Conformity application (and saving a lot of money) then when the vehicle is three years old applies beam benders and it gets through MOT.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 13 February 2019 5:39 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


5000500050001000500
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


rael - 2019-02-12 9:26 PM..........................There is actually nothing to stop a garage/dealership importing a LHD vehicle, filling out the CMR application and submitting it without actually doing the work, or only partially doing it. The only 'proof' needed is a letter from the garage saying the work has been done. This is probably illegal and could also impact on the vehicle insurance, so not to be recommended.

As Derek mentioned, back in 2005 importing was a very simple matter. In 2004 I imported a Buerstner 747, and simply brought it into UK, registered it in 20 minutes at Maidstone and that was it. It has become much more complicated.

If your 2017 motorhome does not have RHD lights and it is UK registered then somewhere along the line someone has cut corners and possibly been economical with the truth! I think Id be going back to the garage/dealership and asking how a vehicle with LHD lights was granted a Certificate of Mutual Recognition.

I agree with the above. Either the dealer has mistakenly registered your van as though it was regular RHD stock import (which, depending on who was responsible for completing and submitting the vehicle details to DVLA, presumably through the dealers' fast-track vehicle registration system that issues batches of registration numbers in advance, seems quite possible), or someone has pulled a fast one for convenience. Error seems to me at least feasible, especially if yours arrived in the spring when they traditionally deliver the bulk of their vans, but in either event, definitely head back to the dealer with a request that they bring it up to UK legal standard.

Thinking of the rear fog lights, I just wonder if it would be preferable to install a further rear fog light on the UK offside, so that the rear always has fog lights on whichever side is the offside at the time, and install a separate (CANBUS compatible LED) reversing light centrally on the rear. That way you will be fully compliant whichever side of the Channel you are.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 13 February 2019 6:40 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


5000500050002000
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Brian

I don’t think there is any ‘confusion' regarding the UK-registration of rael’s motorhome - this is an ex-rental LHD Challenger “Vany” PVC that he personally imported from Germany in late-2018 and drove back to the UK himself. (His posting of 26 November 2018 10:01 PM here)

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Drive-Home-Insurance-/43525/

Once the Challenger reached the UK the usual changes needed to be made to the vehicle to comply with the DVLA’s requirements and a problem arose with sourcing left-dipping headlamps with integrated DRLs (explained in his posting of 15 January 2019 4:53 PM on the above link.)

Barcobird’s LHD Pilote was bought new from a UK dealer in early 2017 when the fact that the vehicle had right-dipping headlamps, a single rear fog-lamp on the UK-nearside and and a kmh-only speedometer should have been addressed. As I understand it, the only change the dealer made was to fit a replacement mph/kmh speedometer face.

Fitting a central reversing light is almost certainly a non-starter as barcobird’s motorhome has a rear rack that habitually carries a scooter.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Air-suspension/47157/

The Pilote’s rear end is as shown in the attached photo and the neatest and most acceptable approach would be (as suggested earlier in this thread) to swap the reversing and fog lights over. Obviously some rewiring would be needed, but the lights look symmetrical, so perhaps just the (inverted) lenses could be swapped over.

Based on the photo on my posting of 11 February 2019 6:27 PM above, the Pilote has LED DRLs in the front bumper, which suggests that the headlamps may not have LED DRLs. If that’s the case, at least it would keep down the cost of replacing the headlamps with left-dipping equivalents.

Whatever happened (or didn’t happen!) back in 2017, I agree with you that barcobird should be contacting the vending dealer and insisting that the vehicle be ‘legalised’ now and not next year close to MOT-test time.



(Pilote G741.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Pilote G741.jpg (42KB - 57 downloads)
userBarcobird
Posted: 13 February 2019 6:51 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


A posting machine

Posts: 341
10010010025
Location: Redditch/Vilamoura.2017 Pilote 741G 150bhp LHD


Brian Kirby - 2019-02-13 5:39 PM

rael - 2019-02-12 9:26 PM..........................There is actually nothing to stop a garage/dealership importing a LHD vehicle, filling out the CMR application and submitting it without actually doing the work, or only partially doing it. The only 'proof' needed is a letter from the garage saying the work has been done. This is probably illegal and could also impact on the vehicle insurance, so not to be recommended.

As Derek mentioned, back in 2005 importing was a very simple matter. In 2004 I imported a Buerstner 747, and simply brought it into UK, registered it in 20 minutes at Maidstone and that was it. It has become much more complicated.

If your 2017 motorhome does not have RHD lights and it is UK registered then somewhere along the line someone has cut corners and possibly been economical with the truth! I think Id be going back to the garage/dealership and asking how a vehicle with LHD lights was granted a Certificate of Mutual Recognition.

I agree with the above. Either the dealer has mistakenly registered your van as though it was regular RHD stock import (which, depending on who was responsible for completing and submitting the vehicle details to DVLA, presumably through the dealers' fast-track vehicle registration system that issues batches of registration numbers in advance, seems quite possible), or someone has pulled a fast one for convenience. Error seems to me at least feasible, especially if yours arrived in the spring when they traditionally deliver the bulk of their vans, but in either event, definitely head back to the dealer with a request that they bring it up to UK legal standard.

Thinking of the rear fog lights, I just wonder if it would be preferable to install a further rear fog light on the UK offside, so that the rear always has fog lights on whichever side is the offside at the time, and install a separate (CANBUS compatible LED) reversing light centrally on the rear. That way you will be fully compliant whichever side of the Channel you are.


It was my intention to go and see the dealer next week while back in the UK but I have just realised it's the NEC week so I've got no chance unless I go to the NEC and surprise them

I have a scooter rack permanently fitted to the back and so a reversing light would be difficult, unless it could be fitted to the rack which I would think extremely unlikely.
My easiest option (or the dealers ) would be to splice into the wires and run extensions from one side to the other with additional connectors, it would then be easy to just unscrew both lights and swap them over. Biggest problem with that is routing the wires which probably would involve removing various panels.
I don't believe the headlights are a problem because as mentioned I can use benders
userBarcobird
Posted: 13 February 2019 7:01 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


A posting machine

Posts: 341
10010010025
Location: Redditch/Vilamoura.2017 Pilote 741G 150bhp LHD


Derek Uzzell - 2019-02-13 6:40 PM

Brian

I don’t think there is any ‘confusion' regarding the UK-registration of Barcobird’s LHD Pilote was bought new from a UK dealer in early 2017 when the fact that the vehicle had right-dipping headlamps, a single rear fog-lamp on the UK-nearside and and a kmh-only speedometer should have been addressed. As I understand it, the only change the dealer made was to fit a replacement mph/kmh speedometer face.

Fitting a central reversing light is almost certainly a non-starter as barcobird’s motorhome has a rear rack that habitually carries a scooter.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Air-suspension/47157/

The Pilote’s rear end is as shown in the attached photo and the neatest and most acceptable approach would be (as suggested earlier in this thread) to swap the reversing and fog lights over. Obviously some rewiring would be needed, but the lights look symmetrical, so perhaps just the (inverted) lenses could be swapped over.

Based on the photo on my posting of 11 February 2019 6:27 PM above, the Pilote has LED DRLs in the front bumper, which suggests that the headlamps may not have LED DRLs. If that’s the case, at least it would keep down the cost of replacing the headlamps with left-dipping equivalents.

Whatever happened (or didn’t happen!) back in 2017, I agree with you that barcobird should be contacting the vending dealer and insisting that the vehicle be ‘legalised’ now and not next year close to MOT-test time.


I agree with everything you say Derek You managed to submit your post while I was in the process of doing mine
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 13 February 2019 7:41 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


5000500050001000500
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


Derek Uzzell - 2019-02-13 6:40 PM
Brian
I don’t think there is any ‘confusion' regarding the UK-registration of rael’s motorhome - this is an ex-rental LHD Challenger “Vany” PVC that he personally imported from Germany in late-2018 and drove back to the UK himself. (His posting of 26 November 2018 10:01 PM here).........……...

I think we're probably at cross purposes, Derek. As I understood the portion of rael's post that I quoted, he was referring to barcobird's problem with headlamps and rear fog / reversing lights, and not problems in registering his own motorhome. It was not my intention to refer to rael's van, apologies if that was unclear.

I agree that the scooter rack probably makes a single, central, reversing light unworkable - I was unaware of the scooter rack at the time of writing. But in view of that, I assume it must also have a lighting bar and registration plate carrier on its rear, that will also need its lights reversed offside to nearside, and vice versa, between UK and the Continent? I believe it is common to wire these via a trailer socket. Barcobird hasn't mentioned any lighting on this, so I'm wondering if the rear fog light is replicated on that?
userBarcobird
Posted: 13 February 2019 7:53 PM
Subject: RE: LHD headlight deflectors
 


A posting machine

Posts: 341
10010010025
Location: Redditch/Vilamoura.2017 Pilote 741G 150bhp LHD



Brian Kirby - 2019-02-13 7:41 PM
I agree that the scooter rack probably makes a single, central, reversing light unworkable - I was unaware of the scooter rack at the time of writing. But in view of that, I assume it must also have a lighting bar and registration plate carrier on its rear, that will also need its lights reversed offside to nearside, and vice versa, between UK and the Continent? I believe it is common to wire these via a trailer socket. Barcobird hasn't mentioned any lighting on this, so I'm wondering if the rear fog light is replicated on that?


As far as I can see there is neither a fog or reversing light on the racks light board. This was also organised by the dealer
Jump to page : First 1 2 3 NextLast
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread
Jump to forum :


(Delete all cookies set by this site)(Return to Homepage)

Any problems? Contact the administrator