mac74 Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 Hello all, without going into the reason why, if i was to buy 2 new batteries like yuasa 100ah efb's, and then put them in loft storage for use in say a 1 or 2 years until properly needed. How often would i have to give them a boost up charge with my ctek 5amp or vic energy 15amp charger to keep them good condition for usage? Or will they lose capacity and quality over this time period??? Thanks m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 Yuasa’s website includes guidance on storage of their batteries https://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/need-know-batteries/ The relevant advice for the Yuasa battery you’ve mentioned is WET Charged Batteries 1. Batteries should be installed ideally within 15 months after manufacture. The voltage should be (worse case higher than 12.25V) ideally higher than 12.4V at the time of installation. 2. Batteries require recharging when the voltage has dropped below 12.4V due to extended warehouse storage. All safety precautions should be undertaken prior to recharging batteries. If a battery has been recharged, the recharge date on the back label should be updated by 6 months after second recharge date by physically notching the label. (Note a maximum of two recharges are allowed prior to sale, and product should not be sold a maximum of 9 months after the expiry of first recommended recharge date). 2.1 A voltage check should be carried out as a matter of course, both to identify older stock and highlight batteries requiring recharge. 2.2 Use a digital voltmeter/multimeter with a minimum of 2 figure resolution (e.g 12.76V). 2.3 Scrap any batteries below 11.0V as these batteries will have developed sulphation that cannot be completed reversed by charging and so will not give the expected performance and life to the customer. 2.4 Note Digital Conductance testers (such as Midtronics and/or Bosch BAT121) are:- NOT designed for the testing of new batteries. Digital battery testers are not designed to check the fully developed cold cranking performance of a new battery. They are designed purely for the testing and evaluation of faulty or used batteries. Any CCA/state of health reading from the test on a new battery CANNOT be a reliable guide as to specification of the battery. The advice on this Yuasa webpage https://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/battery-characteristics-fault-diagnosis/ says Battery Characteristics & Fault Diagnosis Yuasa lead-acid batteries are built to the highest standards. They are manufactured, in most cases to correspond with or exceed the vehicle manufacturer’s requirements and specifications. Nevertheless, it should be clearly understood that wet (filled) lead acid battery is “a live” product. Whether it is in storage or in service, it has a finite life. All batteries once filled will slowly self discharge. The higher the storage temperature and humidity of the storage area, the greater the rate of self discharge. To ensure the batteries are not allowed to discharge to the point where they are damaged (sulphated) or so incapable of giving designed service life, regular checks of the recharge date label on the back of the battery, and voltage checks of batteries with less than 4 month remaining should be made. It is important to ensure good turn around of stock, first in, first out, especially with slow running stock of low volume lines. Batteries with a voltage of 12.35V or below should be recharged immediately. Recharging must not be effected by means of a rapid charger due to the inefficiencies when attempting to recharge a partially sulphated battery which leads to excessive gassing and damage to the active material grid bonds within the battery, which are critical to ensure battery life. Ideally use a recharge rate as stated in “recommended recharge rate and period” according to battery type and catalogue instructions. At the end of discharge, all cells should be gassing freely. It is clearly recommended that batteries are left to stand for a minimum of 3 hours after charging to ensure any gases trapped in the upper battery casings are allowed to diffuse into the atmosphere. If a battery has been recharged, the recharge date on the back label should be updated by 6 months after second recharge date by physically notching the label. (Note a maximum of two recharges are allowed prior to sale, and product should not be sold a maximum of 9 months after the expiry of first recommended recharge date). What this comes down to is that you’d either need to have the batteries in the loft permanently connected to an intelligent charger and trust that charger to ‘decide’ when to put charge into the batteries, or monitor the batteries’ charge-state and recharge them whenever that proves necessary. I was going to say that the wisest thing to do would be to not buy the batteries and stick them in the loft, but - based on this long and involved forum thread that you initiated in early 2019 - I’m not sure if that’s possible. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Mains-Charger-For-Leisure-Battery-Advice-Please-/51676/ I know you enquired “... without going into the reason why...” but if you want a ‘guru only ' response I believe you’ll need to reveal what the background to your question is. (If other forum members wish to comment on Malcolm’s enquiry about ‘loft storage’, Malcolm is a window cleaner and (presumably) the batteries will form part of his professional equipment.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac74 Posted April 17, 2021 Author Share Posted April 17, 2021 Thanks for that in depth reply derek, " permanently connected to an intelligent charger and trust that charger to ‘decide’ when to put charge into the batteries, or monitor the batteries’ charge-state and recharge them whenever that proves necessary" So if i was to store them in a shed, and give them a top up with a vic engy 15amp charger every 3 months, would this keep them in good condition? thanks m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 I'm not a battery guru. If you know you won't be making use of a battery for one (perhaps two) years, why buy it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac74 Posted April 17, 2021 Author Share Posted April 17, 2021 Derek Uzzell - 2021-04-17 3:15 PM I'm not a battery guru. If you know you won't be making use of a battery for one (perhaps two) years, why buy it now? Like i said i dont want to go into the reasons why, just asking the best way to store a battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 If you already have two similar batteries in service then I would cycle between the pairs with possibly 1 or 2 months in service then swap to the second set and rest the first. My uneducated guess would be that you would get longer overall service from the two pairs this way rather than wait for the first pair to expire and then try to revive the second pair out of storage. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 mac74 - 2021-04-17 3:51 PM Derek Uzzell - 2021-04-17 3:15 PM I'm not a battery guru. If you know you won't be making use of a battery for one (perhaps two) years, why buy it now? Like i said i dont want to go into the reasons why, just asking the best way to store a battery. I think your question is almost unanswerable. But, if you read the YUASA storage guidance as reproduced above by Derek, it seems to me this: "1. Batteries should be installed ideally within 15 months after manufacture. The voltage should be (worse case higher than 12.25V) ideally higher than 12.4V at the time of installation." is basically saying "don't do it". First, it seems it is is unlikely you will be able to source two absolutely fresh batteries, as the above storage instruction is aimed at wholesalers and is basically stating the maximum age (15 months) at which a battery can be sold as "fresh". This implies that after 24 months further storage your batteries might actually be anything up to 39 months old. Second, I can't find any reference to a charger specifically designed to apply top up charges (i.e. a connect and forget storage charger) when the state of charge drops to 70% (which seems to be the recommended discharge level before re-charging when in storage. So, you would have to monitor voltage, or specific gravity of the electrolyte, and the connect the charger manually. Charging a non-sealed battery will cause some electrolyte loss, so you would also need to periodically check electrolyte level. You have mentioned storing the batteries in a shed, or attic. I don't think either would be suitable as the recommended conditions for battery storage are in low, ideally constant humidity, constant temperature in the region of 10C. My impression, overall, is that batteries do not like long term storage, and are best put into service as fresh as possible and then being regularly cycled between discharge to their maximum discharge level (depending on battery chemistry) and, as soon as possible thereafter, by "intelligent" re-charging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 There is plenty of online advice on storage of vehicle batteries - this VARTA guidance for example: https://batteryworld.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/how-store-car-battery Malcolm’s last question to me about the two batteries he was hypothetically purchasing was So if i was to store them in a shed, and give them a top up with a vic engy 15amp charger every 3 months, would this keep them in good condition? and invites a Yes or No answer. If I had said Yes he probably wouldn’t have wanted to let the matter rest as I’ve openly admitted that I’m not a battery’guru’. And if I’d said No, he would probably have wanted to know what he should do instead. But, unless the (secret) reason for acquiring a pair of new batteries knowing that they won’t be used for 12-24 months is imperative, the simple answer is not to do it or accept that the batteries will degrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 Standby batteries last longer when constantly monitored by a low current smart maintainer. The optimate 2 is ideal because it float charges at the new lower recommended voltage of 13.4 and lets the battery "rest" between top ups to minimise electrolyte loss. Leaving the batteries to stand for a period and then charging will count as a shallow cycle, batteries only have so many cycles before failing. Battery University also advises to store flooded batteries at full charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinM50 Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 mac74 - 2021-04-17 3:51 PM Derek Uzzell - 2021-04-17 3:15 PM If you know you won't be making use of a battery for one (perhaps two) years, why buy it now? Like i said i dont want to go into the reasons why, just asking the best way to store a battery. Oh, go on, you can tell us. We'll keep it secret 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickt Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 It,s a wind up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 Can't be a windup, he's using batteries (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 Use them or loose them lol..lol :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costaexpress Posted April 18, 2021 Share Posted April 18, 2021 Mickt - 2021-04-18 9:46 AM It,s a wind up Seems to me there is a positive and a negative to this thread it just needs a bit more oomph to get the energy levels up, definitely has potential wouldn't want the thread to go flat although if we all pile in we can soon charge it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac74 Posted April 18, 2021 Author Share Posted April 18, 2021 Thanks brian & derek for that info. In hindsight i should of just addressed the tread as, "whats the best way to store a new leisure battery, if you are not going to use it for a year or so". But with the above info i have what i need, thanks m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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