Davidhood999 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Hi all! We are newbies to the motorhome scene having just bought a 54 reg Rapido 924f. We have 2 questions if anyone can help us ? First we bought a battery charger to keep our batteries tip top as we don't have a driveway to charge things via hook up. Whilst pulling a 115 AH battery out to charge we noticed that one of them has a short tube coming from the top on one side and it went outside through a small hole in the battery tray. Does anybody know what this is for? Do we need to add this to any other battery that may end up being put here in place of the one we removed to charge? We bought a third battery from Halfords which didn't have this so we're a bit confused. Secondly we are looking at buying a generator to back up the solar panel to use whilst camping wild, we know about checking the wattage of everything we may want to use to work out that wattage of any generator we might buy, but the thing we're puzzled about is I've noticed that some listings say that the generator is only capable of charging batteries of a certain AH so does anyone know how we would work out if a given generator might be capable of charging the batteries we have? We've got 2 batteries in the van to be charged at any one time, 2 say they are 90 AH and the spare we removed to charge up says it's 110 AH so we could at any one time end up having one of each in use. Do we use the AH to gauge the power needed, if do how do we work that out? Or do we just use the wattage of the battery charger? If anyone can give use any pointers here we'd be very grateful. Anna & David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 There's a lot to process on this, and I'm not renown for being best at explanations, but lets start. For most vans the solar should keep the batteries topped up even in winter, there should be no reason for removing them. If the solar doesn't keep them topped up, look to see if it need rewiring. I question why you seem to be carrying spare batteries not fitted and wired, usual method would be to have them securely bolted down and wired into the system. p.s. In winter the solar might only keep batteries topped up when not in use, in summer they hopefully keep up with your usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 David, You have asked an awful lot of questions in your post! Luckily a lot of them can be answered by reading the late Allan Evans website here... http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/ If you still have questions after reading all the pages come back and we'll see what we can do to help. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Part two. Are you sure you need to have a generator? In winter it might be useful, in summer, as above hopefully your solar will keep up, unless you decide to use a lot of mains equipment, also if you are moving the van then the alternator should be topping up the batteries. Generators are not popular with many because they need storing in the van along with a fuel can which subtracts from payload, and the noise they produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefitz Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 The vent tube is needed if the battery is over charged or suffers internal failure, so that gas build up is safely vented outside the van. Under normal conditions the battery will not vent but for safety, fitting the vent tube is recommended. They are available for most battery suppliers, https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/vent-pipe-for-leisure-batteries?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIoKDCt4q07QIVEe3tCh2BIgMeEAQYASABEgLSH_D_BwE Generators may have an auxiliary 12v output but this is rarely capable of correctly charging a battery. The 230 output of the generator connected to a mains battery charger is a better method. There are often issues with the leisure battery system in motorhomes, as the standard fit electrical systen is usually designed for frequent hook up rather than off grid camping. There are many ways the system can be modified to give a better charge to the leisure batteries and I guess advice will be along shortly. Fitting solar panels and a suitable controller is one solution to keep the batteries charged without resorting to a generator. Where the battery bank is concerned, having batteries of similar type and age is recommended, as any 'weak' battery in the pack will compromise the performance. Also, ideally, the battery bank (where two batteries are connected to make one 'big' battery) should be be charged and discharged as one unit. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 When I first had a van I though as you and bought a generator over the last 11 yrs we've hardly used it and now don't even carry it anymore We don't use sites move every couple of days have 120 wat solar watch tv every nite So see how you get on before you spend 100's of £'s on some thing you don't need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Like witzend we purchased a Honda pure sine wave and used it maybe twice. 1st time when the gas side of the fridge broke in france. Used the generator for 30 mins pointing the silencer away from everyone else. Not busy on the Aire we stayed on and some English Motorhomers clapped when I switched it off. Generally speaking the solar panel covers all our requirements, even using our inverter for the kettle ect. I’ve not missed the generator once. It’s better to fit a 2 nd battery, ideally 2 of the same purchased at the same time to stop any arguments going on between the batteries. I would certainly go down the 2 battery option before purchasing the generator. If you do purchase one, make sure it’s a pure sine wave and not modified. Modified damage chargers and tend to be loads cheaper. Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Davidhood999 - 2020-12-04 9:05 AM ...Whilst pulling a 115 AH battery out to charge we noticed that one of them has a short tube coming from the top on one side and it went outside through a small hole in the battery tray. Does anybody know what this is for? Do we need to add this to any other battery that may end up being put here in place of the one we removed to charge? We bought a third battery from Halfords which didn't have this so we're a bit confused.... Welcome to the Out&AboutLive Forums, Anna and David. To expand on mikefutz’s advice above, gel batteries cannot be fitted with a vent/breather tube, and a tube is often not fitted to AGM batteries. Although gel and AGM batteries may be used for ‘leisure’ puposes in motorhomes, the most common leisure-battery will be the traditional wet-acid type, and this may be ‘maintainable’ (where the battery’s cell-caps can be unscrewed and the electrolyte-level checked and topped up if necessary) or ’non-maintainable’ (where the battery’s cell-caps are not intended to be removed). ‘Maintainable’ or ’non-maintainable’ wet-acid batteries will normally have the capability to attach a vent/breather tube - this may involve a single hole at one end of the battery, or a hole at each end. If a battery has a hole at each end, the vent tube is connected to the hole that is most convenient for allowing the tube to be led outside the vehicle and the hole at the battery’s other end must then be fitted with a vent-plug. For applications that have the battery installed inside the passenger compartment of a vehicle (eg. beneath seating in a motorhome’s habitation area or under a cab seat) it is important that the battery be vented properly. You’d need to provide identifying details for the Halfords battery you bought. Halfords current leisure batteries https://www.halfords.com/motoring/batteries/leisure-batteries/ are mostly ‘ordinary’ wet-acid type that will have an obvious hole to accept a vent tube. However the Halfords HLB800 is AGM type. https://www.halfords.com/motoring/batteries/leisure-batteries/halfords-leisure-battery-hlb800-682097.html (I THINK it may be possible to fit a vent tube to a HLB800 battery by prising out the little white plug arrowed in the photo below.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zydeco Joe Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 First thing you need to do is get out using what you have and go easy of buying stuff that as others have said. A generator can and will be a point of agro somewhere along the line as nobody likes them apart from a few who maintain they stay miles from the next camper and that's a hard place to find in Europe let alone the UK. As I say get out use your van as much as you can and learn how to manage with the battery power you have. Have fun its a fantastic hobby. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 One further point. As Derek has said above, your leisure battery will be one of three broad types: Gel, AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat), or flooded. All are lead-acid, but the electrolyte varies in each with the flooded variety using the normal liquid electrolyte (whether "sealed" or not), whereas in a Gel battery the electrolyte is held as a thick gel and cannot be topped up, but is completely spill proof, and in AGM the electrolyte is held in absorbent glass fibre matting which also makes it spill proof. AGM batteries generally require venting as for flooded batteries. Gel batteries generally do not require venting, but this should be checked for an individual battery, as some do. Wet flooded batteries, Gel batteries, and AGM batteries all have different charging requirements. Some chargers are switchable between types, others are specific for one, or possibly two, types only. Using the wrong charger for the type of battery being charged will result in a reduction in the performance, and possibly life, of the battery. For this reason it would be wise to ascertain exactly which of your batteries is of which type, and to check what make and model of mains charger is installed, what type of solar charger is installed, and whether the charge delivered to the battery from the vehicle alternator is fed directly, or via the conversion charging system, as the alternator will not differentiate between the different battery types. The technology continually evolves, so an older van and its charging facilities may not fully "understand" the latest batteries. The charging equipment already installed in your van may therefore determine whether Gel, or AGM, batteries can be used, as well as what total battery capacity you should install without overloading the charger. You would also be wise to check whether the alternator is suitable for a larger battery bank. As above, there is a long-standing rule of thumb that where more than one battery is connected into a bank, those batteries must all be of the same type, and should also be of the same age, and some say, capacity. If wanting a multiple battery bank, it is generally recommended to buy the batteries at the same time and from the same source, so that they are as nearly matched as to type and age as possible. If one battery in a bank is older than the other their combined performance (in terms of actual storage capacity) will only equal that of the older battery. Be aware that within the three broad categories there are sub-types, and if building a battery bank all should be of the same sub-type where these exist. This is generally easiest to achieve if all are of the same brand, model designation, chemistry, and type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Just to add a couple of points which may already be obvious to you but still worth mentioning for any other newcomers - you mention you have 3 batteries which I assume are all ‘leisure’ batteries but, in fact, all Motorhomes also have another battery for the engine side of things. This is important to note as usually this battery is also connected via the 12v system to the built in charger. Second, it is true to say that many people find generators antisocial (however ‘quiet’ they are supposed to be) and should you be contemplating touring in Europe they are not supposed to be used on aires. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 There’s a 2006 Rapido-versus-Hymer review here https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/userfiles/file/MMM%20historic%20road%20tests/Hymer%20B-Class%20544%20and%20Rapido%20le%20Randonneur%20927F.pdf The Rapido model reviewed was a 927F, but the basic specification will have been similar to David’s earlier 924F. The review states that the 927F had a 90Ah leisure battery and I THINK that would have been installed in a ‘locker’ (in the floor?) A single 90Ah wet-acid leisure-battery is what one might expect Rapido to have provided as standard in the early-2000s, with every likelihood of a 2nd identical battery being offered as a factory option. The Rapido’s electrical system would have been based on CBE or Scheiber equipment (I’m guessing the latter) and the battery-charger definitely would not have had a selectable AGM-battery charging feature. I’m unsure how many batteries David’s Rapido has and where they are housed. There will be a starter-battery (normally in the enginre compartment for a 2004 Fiat Ducato) and that would probably have a vent-tube. I wouldn’t have thought more than two leisure batteries would have been fitted and - if these were housed in a vented locker somewhere - they might not have vent-tubes (though I believe they should have if that’s practicable.) It’s completely unpredictable what horrors a clueless motorhome owner may inflict on their vehicle and this complicates matters when the motorhome is eventually sold and the buyer is trying to work out what has been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 I’m not sure how useful this will be, but a GOOGLE-search for “Rapido 924F” on these forums resulted in the following five pages of entries: https://tinyurl.com/yxccca55 There’s also a Rapido Instruction Manual here http://www.chrismart.byethost15.com/Materials/Manuals/Rapido/I.htm?i=2 I can’t identify how old the document is, but the pictures and information suggest to me that it’s pre-2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidhood999 Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 Hi, we'd like to thank everyone so far and anyone else to come for all the very helpful comments, we are holding off buying a generator for now to see how we get on without one. If we manage on the winter we'll certainly manage in the summer. We're out in it as I speak and we've bee on roadside in Brighton for 2 days and nights, we've had the heating on most of the time, lights on a lot and the fridge freezer is maintaining a steady temperature. We've also had a couple days out in it before our Brighton trip too and with all that I only felt the need to switch the engine on for an hour this morning as out meter read 11.6 rather than the usual 12.4 or so and it seems to have topped the batteries up enough to get us out of the danger zone and now it's day light hopefully the solar panel will do the rest. We have noticed other things we need help with answering, do I right it here or post a different thread? It's ref our water tank or pump, and what to do ref emptying tanks as we are on roadside? This a great forum, everyone is so he friendly and helpful, thanks again everyone and please keep all the great advice coming, we appreciate it very much! David & Anna ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Davidhood999 - 2020-12-06 10:43 AM Hi, we'd like to thank everyone so far what to do ref emptying tanks as we are on roadside? David & Anna ?? You've left it a bit late to now think of emptying tanks You need to find a campsite that allows you to empty & fill for a fee of book in and stop the night. What ever You do please don't look for shortcuts do it responsibly Motorhomers are getting enough bad press now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 I fitted a 2500 kw lpg built in one to out then 2003 Bessacar, transferred it to our 2008 Bessacar, when we changed the van for a new one in 2012 didn’t bother to fit it. It’s still on my bench at home having only run less than 200 hours. When in the van it was mounted in the gas locker, with an lpg under slung tank fitted. Where possible we would park with the genny facing away from other vans (we wild a lot) or not use it if it would cause annoyance to others. On more than one occasion we would offer a power lead to the closest van so it went well, but always consider others. On our Aspire I fitted an inverter to the engine battery which allowed me when driving to run the fridge on 240 so temp controlled instead of the constant 17 amp at 12 volt draw. And run a Victron 30 amp charger to top up the leisure batteries quicker together with 300 watts of solar. Currently on our new Burstner when we return to the UK (self isolating in France at the moment fully complying with local conditions) going to have 200 amps of lithium and 400 watts of solar fitted. So I would suggest you use it several times to see exactly what you require. As a rule of thumb you will need to empty you cassette, empty grey water and top up with fresh every few days, so plan you holiday around this with a visit to an aire or site to do so. It is the inconsiderate actions of a few motorhomes that is spoiling it for others. We alway carry a couple of spare bags and clear up where we are parked if required as we appreciate the benefits of wild camping and like to put something back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Davidhood999 - 2020-12-06 10:43 AM ...We have noticed other things we need help with answering, do I right it here or post a different thread? It's ref our water tank or pump, and what to do ref emptying tanks as we are on roadside?... Probably best if you start another forum thread about the water system. Suggest you also enter details of your motorhome in your forum Profile as advised here https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/IDENTIFYING-YOUR-MOTORHOME/54713/ 2004 Rapido 924F should be enough - though the motor capacity might be worth stating too. ........................................................................................... There’s a fair amount of on-line stuff about ‘wild camping’ in the UK and abroad (some examples here) https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/emptying-the-toilet-when-%E2%80%98wild%E2%80%99-camping.203325/ https://www.salopleisure.co.uk/press/articles/motorhomes/a-guide-to-wild-camping-with-motorhomes-in-the-uk/3272 https://thegapdecaders.com/wild-camp-motorhome/ the 3rd link warns Remember that the non-motorhoming general public have no idea about motorhome waste. If you are in a beauty spot with your waste tap open dropping 100l dirty water, they will assume the worst. Be discreet and respectful at all times; if you think dropping your waste may be inappropriate or cause offence, then do it elsewhere. If your Rapido 924F has similar size water tanks to the 927F model I mentioned above (fresh-water tank = 120 litres: waste-water tank = 100 litres) a full fresh-water tank should last you some while and the waste-water tank should not need emptying that regularly. (Obviously, if you treated the shower as if it were in your home or in a hotel and used water lavishly, it would be another matter!) As witzend has advised, in the UK you should really find a place where waste-water and toilet waste can be ‘officially’ emptied - which normally means a campsite. In the past (not in the UK) I’ve emptied a toilet cassette in a public toilet and a waste-water tank into a rainwater drain, but neither method is to be recommended. This link https://www.confused.com/on-the-road/driving-law/fines-for-idling warns Leaving an engine idling is an offence "Stationary idling is an offence under section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988," says Jeanette Miller, managing director of Geoffrey Miller Solicitors. The Act enforces rule 123 of the Highway Code, which states: "You must not leave a vehicle’s engine running unnecessarily while that vehicle is stationary on a public road." Doing this can incur a £20 fixed-penalty fine under the Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) Regulations 2002. This goes up to £40 if unpaid within a given time frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-12-06 11:46 AM If your Rapido 924F has similar size water tanks to the 927F model I mentioned above (fresh-water tank = 120 litres: waste-water tank = 100 litres) a full fresh-water tank should last you some while and the waste-water tank should not need emptying that regularly. (Obviously, if you treated the shower as if it were in your home or in a hotel and used water lavishly, it would be another matter!) As Derek says, you are now in a vehicle which has limited resources, if you haven't already, you need to consider how best to conserve these resources. Not sure of the set up on your van, but ours has a trigger on the showerhead, at home gf says "you blast yourself with boiling hot water for hours on end" (a slight exaggeration), but in the van we use the minimum to get clean. The same with other things such as washing up, think about minimum usage, it will conserve your fresh tank, and put less in the waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidhood999 Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 To Witzend; Hi, yea we realise that now :-) I franticly emailed and phone a handful of sites this morning and one person called back to say we could use their services. There was nobody camping there so I wondered if they were officially closed, but nevertheless we got it sorted. Thank goodness! Do you know if many camp sites will be open this time of year as next week we were hoping to take the van to Cornwall do we'd be in a similar predicament then potentially? Many thanks. David & Anna :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 There are listings here that may help: https://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/sites/results.asp?county=Cornwall%20(West)&openallyear=on https://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/sites/results.asp?county=Cornwall+%28East%29&openallyear=on If you filter the listings by Pitch Type = Motorhomes you ought to find sites with pitches able to safely carry the weight of a heavy vehicle and with water refilling, waste emptying and 230V electricity services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Davidhood999 - 2020-12-06 5:41 PM To Witzend; Hi, yea we realise that now :-) I franticly emailed and phone a handful of sites this morning and one person called back to say we could use their services. There was nobody camping there so I wondered if they were officially closed, but nevertheless we got it sorted. Thank goodness! Do you know if many camp sites will be open this time of year as next week we were hoping to take the van to Cornwall do we'd be in a similar predicament then potentially? Many thanks. David & Anna :-) I would think it’s more a case of where tier 2 and 3 restrictions have been imposed. Certainly campsites in tier 3 areas will be closed and there boundaries should not be crossed other than for reasons such as work etc. As far as I know only Cornwall, Scilly isles and Isle of Wight are in tier 1. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Davidhood999 - 2020-12-06 5:41 PM To Witzend; Do you know if many camp sites will be open this time of year as next week we were hoping to take the van to Cornwall do we'd be in a similar predicament then potentially? Many thanks. David & Anna :-) You certainly haven't picked the best time to set off on a new adventure when many of us are staying at home and not traveling. Cornwall isn't the most motorhome friendly County I live here and wouldn't know where to go but I'd think joining the CCC club might be a idea to get a list of sites that maybe open. I know many people have a second cassette so as not to have to visit sites quite as often. I've no idea but as its tier 1 here are you allowed to visit I have heard that a local hotel sent some people home last week as they came from tier 3 location Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 witzend - 2020-12-06 9:41 PM I've no idea but as its tier 1 here are you allowed to visit I have heard that a local hotel sent some people home last week as they came from tier 3 location And just seen this online https://tinyurl.com/y4zp4d4k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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