Loss of engine power

[chas]

My Peugeot Boxer 2ltr engine 05 plate coachbuilt has just recently started to lose power when going up long hills. It has never done this before, and its fine on the level quite nippy in fact. Does anyone know if the accelerator pedal is electronically coupled to the fuel supply? it has only done 33,000 miles.It will have to go into the garage to be checked out, but I like to know beforehand what the cause could possibly be. Thanks for any help

[Fred Duck]

When the 04 plate 2 litre Ducato based van we used to have did exactly this it proved to be a clogged EGR valve. Too clogged to properly clean, a replacement solved the problem.

 

FD

[rooster63]

I had a similar problem with my Citroen Relay 2007 and again it was a blocked EGR, just over £200 to have replaced.

[chas]

Could you explain the abbreviation EGR. thanks

[Derek Uzzell]

EGR stands for Exhaust Gas Recirculation and these links describe the EGR valve and potential problems with it.

 

https://www.evanshalshaw.com/blog/what-is-an-egr-valve/

 

https://www.stoneacre.co.uk/blog/egr-valve

 

Not sure how helpful this might be, but the following link shows the results of a GOOGLE-search on “elddis egr valve”.

 

https://tinyurl.com/y4d6kglo

 

 

[skaman]

I had a similar problem but on an old Merc Sprinter. New fuel filter fixed the problem. Even if that doesn't solve the problem it's a very cheap job to do before exploring more expensive options.

[thebishbus]

Yes I had problems with my 2.8 id TD in France this year after filling up with Supermarket diesel. It started to misfire at high revs,turned out to be the diesel fuel filter.

Brian B.

[John52]

thebishbus - 2020-09-23 6:31 PM

 

Yes I had problems with my 2.8 id TD in France this year after filling up with Supermarket diesel. It started to misfire at high revs,turned out to be the diesel fuel filter.

Brian B.

My understanding is that Supermarket diesel is the same as any other, made to meet minimum standards and no more.

But, wherever you fill up, you might be just after the tanker has dropped a load in and stirred all the sediment up in the bottom of their tank.

 

EGR valve discussed here;

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Peugeot-boxer-egr-valve-problems/53027/#M619758

[Nicepix]

John52 - 2020-09-23 9:03 PM

 

thebishbus - 2020-09-23 6:31 PM

 

Yes I had problems with my 2.8 id TD in France this year after filling up with Supermarket diesel. It started to misfire at high revs,turned out to be the diesel fuel filter.

Brian B.

My understanding is that Supermarket diesel is the same as any other, made to meet minimum standards and no more.

But, wherever you fill up, you might be just after the tanker has dropped a load in and stirred all the sediment up in the bottom of their tank.

 

EGR valve discussed here;

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Peugeot-boxer-egr-valve-problems/53027/#M619758

 

Not out here. There is one supermarket that I now regularly use that appears to be providing higher quality diesel at regular prices. If I fill up there I get over 12% better fuel economy.

 

As you say, there is a minimum standard but in France each supermarket is a franchise and it is up to the manager to decide what grade fuel to buy. The manager at Intermarche at L'Isle Jourdain seems to be buying and supplying better diesel than other local supermarkets.

[Derek Uzzell]

The Telegraph’s motoring columnist “Honest John” has - for many years - been a proponent of Shell V-Power fuels

 

https://www.shell.co.uk/motorist/v-power-fuels/v-power-diesel.html

 

https://www.shell.co.uk/motorist/v-power-fuels/shell-dynaflex-technology.html

 

For anyone prepared to lose the will to live, there’s endless discussion about this on the honestjohn.co.uk website

 

https://tinyurl.com/y4agb46

 

Theer’s similar discussion about fuel ‘quality’ on other countries’ motoring websites with Germany’s ADAC association (apparently) having warned members travelling in France to avoid refuelling at supermarket pumps.

 

This webpage may be of interest to francophones

 

https://www.autobutler.fr/blog/types-carburants

 

 

[chas]

The thing I cant quite understand is my van works great on the level normal roads but on long motorway hills with the foot to the floor was struggling to maintain 45-49 mph which it never used to. I had filled up fuel before setting off, bought from a supermarket garage, always buy from supermarkets, unless desperate.

 

The bleeding or replacement of the fuel filter seems like a good first choice, then examine the state of the EGR, but if this is clogged up why does the engine run great on the level admittedly with less throttle pressure?

[Nicepix]

Is the weight the same? If you have added weight then that is what would be expected.

[Nicepix]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-09-24 9:59 AM

 

The Telegraph’s motoring columnist “Honest John” has - for many years - been a proponent of Shell V-Power fuels

 

https://www.shell.co.uk/motorist/v-power-fuels/v-power-diesel.html

 

https://www.shell.co.uk/motorist/v-power-fuels/shell-dynaflex-technology.html

 

For anyone prepared to lose the will to live, there’s endless discussion about this on the honestjohn.co.uk website

 

https://tinyurl.com/y4agb46

 

Theer’s similar discussion about fuel ‘quality’ on other countries’ motoring websites with Germany’s ADAC association (apparently) having warned members travelling in France to avoid refuelling at supermarket pumps.

 

This webpage may be of interest to francophones

 

https://www.autobutler.fr/blog/types-carburants

 

 

Problem with the Shell V-Power and similar enhanced fuels is that they run out around 15c - 20c per litre more expensive than supermarket fuel. If you do not fill up at supermarkets in France then your choice is limited to brands such as Avia and BP which also are much more expensive. Probably still the same situation in the UK with independent filling stations being tied to higher priced brands.

 

I have done over 140,000 km on French supermarket diesel in five vehicles including two camping-cars without any problems, and only relatively recently discovered by accident the benefits of this one supermarket's fuel, but I'll wager that there are a few other supermarkets offering better than the basic fuel. Problem is, when touring you wouldn't know.

[colin]

The other thing to check would be any split that is leaking turbo boost.

[Derek Uzzell]

chas - 2020-09-24 9:19 AM

 

The thing I cant quite understand is my van works great on the level normal roads but on long motorway hills with the foot to the floor was struggling to maintain 45-49 mph which it never used to...

 

I’ve no hands-on experience of the 2-litre motor that was fitted to a 2005 Peugeot Boxer, but it’s near certain that it would have a ‘drive by wire’ accelerator-pedal where the pedal’s position is sensed electronically and that information is fed through electrical wiring to the vehicle’s engine management system. It’s not like the Good Old Days where stamping on the accelerator yanked on a Bowdeb cable that, in turn, pulled on a chunky metal mechanism bolted to the motor.

 

The 2-litre engine of my 2005 Ford Transit-based Hobby motorhome began to exhibiit similar symptoms to your Boxer’s - OK on the flat, but down on power when accelerating and when hill-climbing. The cause was quickly identified as seizure of the internals of the motor’s variable-geometry-turbocharger (VGT) - and around £800 to put this right - but your Boxer’s motor doesn’t have a VGT.

 

As you’ve said, replacing the fuel filter as a first step should be quite cheap and easy to do. Then - if you feel able - check the state of the EGR valve. Plainly (as colin has advised) if the tutbocharger is not producing full boost for some reason (eg. a spiit in a hose) you might not notice this much when ‘cruising’, but it would become very apparent when more power is needed to maintain speed on long inclines.

 

 

[John52]

If supermarket fuel caused noticeable loss of engine power I think a lot more people would experience it.

[John52]

colin - 2020-09-24 11:02 AM

 

The other thing to check would be any split that is leaking turbo boost.

 

Good point. I would certainly be checking that a 15 year old van.

[Derek Uzzell]

John52 - 2020-09-24 11:49 AM

 

If supermarket fuel caused noticeable loss of engine power I think a lot more people would experience it.

The argument that is commonly put forward is not that using ‘supermarket’ fuel causes a noticeable lack of power, but that fuels like Shell V-Power can provide better performance and/or improved fuel economy compared to the supermarket fuels.

 

An individual might be able to test this by running their vehicle for a signiicant mileage (say 10K miles) on fuel from the same supermarket and recording performance and fuel-consumption data over that distance, then switching to (say) Shell V-Power fuel and following the same procedure. Or doing the reverse - Shell V-Power first, then supermarket fuel later. But there are a lot of variables in that exercise and few people will bother to attempt it.

 

Nicepix has said that, using fuel obtained from a particular French supermarket has resulted in a 12% fuel consumption improvement compared with fuels from elsewhere, and this is the sort of gain that some UK drivers have claimed in the Honest John columns.

 

I’ve never been concerned about vehicle fuel consumption and I’ve always refuelled when and where it has been necessary, so I don’t know if using an ‘enhanced’ fuel would result in improved consumption figures. As for providing higher performace, I’m not sure how that could be confirmed without use of a test track or dynamometer.

 

This link refers

 

https://blog.greenflag.com/2019/cheap-supermarket-fuel/

 

(One thing is for sure - merely switching to ‘non-supermarket’ diesel fuel is not going to cure Chas’s lack-of-power problem.)

[Nicepix]

I work three days a fortnight and cover approximately 800 km on that route. It is the same route each time and the vehicle is loaded with the same things each time. In between those working kilometres the usage is variable but only amounts to around 200 km and I can fill up at five or six different supermarket filling stations in the area that I work. I always used to fill up at the cheapest whenever possible, or the most local one, and only used the one I mentioned as I was running short one day.

 

I keep a record in my work diary of km covered and litres filled along with the stations used. My old former UK registered van, a 1.9d Berlingo used to average almost exactly 45.5 mpg so I could guess that the litres I refilled would be almost exactly 1/10 of the miles covered on the tripometer. But after refilling at L'Isle Jourdain I needed significantly less. So, I used that station more and kept my eye on the diary records and even after changing the vehicle for a similar, but newer 1.6 HDi with 4WD there was always a significant decrease in consumption after filling up at that station.

 

I don't notice any increase in power or acceleration and I didn't with the camping-car, a 2.7 litre Merc' when I filled up there and when using the dearer stuff in Spain, but the consumption is definitely less. In my works vehicle it varies on average from around 44 mpg using ordinary fuel and just over 50 mpg using the LIJ filling station.

[John52]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-09-24 1:53 PM

 

John52 - 2020-09-24 11:49 AM

 

If supermarket fuel caused noticeable loss of engine power I think a lot more people would experience it.

The argument that is commonly put forward is not that using ‘supermarket’ fuel causes a noticeable lack of power, but that fuels like Shell V-Power can provide better performance and/or improved fuel economy compared to the supermarket fuels.

 

An individual might be able to test this by running their vehicle for a signiicant mileage (say 10K miles) on fuel from the same supermarket and recording performance and fuel-consumption data over that distance, then switching to (say) Shell V-Power fuel and following the same procedure. Or doing the reverse - Shell V-Power first, then supermarket fuel later. But there are a lot of variables in that exercise and few people will bother to attempt it.

 

Nicepix has said that, using fuel obtained from a particular French supermarket has resulted in a 12% fuel consumption improvement compared with fuels from elsewhere, and this is the sort of gain that some UK drivers have claimed in the Honest John columns.

 

I’ve never been concerned about vehicle fuel consumption and I’ve always refuelled when and where it has been necessary, so I don’t know if using an ‘enhanced’ fuel would result in improved consumption figures. As for providing higher performace, I’m not sure how that could be confirmed without use of a test track or dynamometer.

 

This link refers

 

https://blog.greenflag.com/2019/cheap-supermarket-fuel/

 

(One thing is for sure - merely switching to ‘non-supermarket’ diesel fuel is not going to cure Chas’s lack-of-power problem.)

If Shell V power did what Shell claim the big fleet operators would be all over it.

But they are not.

They go for the cheapest, same as me :-D

[chas]

Just to inform folk of the problem, that has now been fixed by the garage, they found split leaking turbo hoses which they replaced and on road testing it the problem seems to have been solved. Thanks to all who helped.

[John52]

chas - 2020-09-26 9:35 AM

 

Just to inform folk of the problem, that has now been fixed by the garage, they found split leaking turbo hoses which they replaced and on road testing it the problem seems to have been solved. Thanks to all who helped.

 

Thanks for letting us know. B-)

[Alanb]

chas - 2020-09-26 9:35 AM

 

Just to inform folk of the problem, that has now been fixed by the garage, they found split leaking turbo hoses which they replaced and on road testing it the problem seems to have been solved. Thanks to all who helped.

 

Thanks, very good to be informed of the outcome.

 

Top marks to Colin.

 

Alan

[thebishbus]

Good point of Colins. If the fault had not been the hose, it could still have been turbo related. To test if the turbo is working and building up pressure, get someone to rev the engine while you squeeze the turbo to engine hose with your hand, if the pressure is building up you will feel the hose expanding.

Brian B.

[John52]

Could also have been the steel pipes the pressurised air runs through on its way to and from the intercooler.

They can rust through like the engine sump.

Some people rub them down and paint them to stop them rusting through.

But spreading a bit of oil over them when you change the oil is a lot quicker and does the job just as well.

Old cars never had any rust around the engine because it was always covered in leaking oil.

The problem only started when we got engines that don't leak oil.