MMM, Morrisons and Lpg

[paulmold]

In the latest MMM (January edition) a letter has been published from a motorhomer who was not allowed to fill his lpg. When questioned, Morrisons claimed health and safety rules not permitting the filling of vehicles with cooking facilities, only cars. MMM added a note saying this was reported two years ago and so obviously rules hadn't changed. They obviously didn't ask Morrisons for clarification, so I did and received the following reply.....

 

"Hi Paul,

 

Thanks for getting in touch.

 

Motorhomes are only allowed to fill outside the vehicle fixed cylinders inside are not permitted.

 

Morrisons do allow safefill cylinders to be refilled with LPG.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Amber-Rose Reynolds

Customer Assistant

We Morrison Supermarkets PLC"

 

 

With Shell removing lpg pumps this year , we need Morrisons to continue to sell lpg. I have sent the reply to MMM and asked for a correction to be published in the next edition

[stevec176]

It also needs to be passed on to Morrison staff so that they know what's allowed. I've been stopped and when I queried their reason I was shown a Morrisons notice forbidding filling of LPG bottles. I even contacted head office and was also told they didnt allow filling of motorhomes due to H&S and their staff were unable to differentiate between different ways of filling so it was a blanket ban.

[lancepar]

We've never had to use Morrisons for LPG but there might be a time.

 

So is it me that doesn't fully understand the letter Paul received from" M"?.

 

"Motorhomes are only allowed to fill outside the vehicle fixed cylinders inside are not permitted."

 

Wifey says it means our Motorhome with a LPG filling point on the body connected to the cylinders secured in the gas locker can't fill at Morrisons. Is this the case?

 

I'm confused (lol)

 

B-)

[StuartO]

Every so often we seem to come across "jobsworth" rules which prevent us from filling with autogas at a petrol station which has Autogas and it does seem that the numbers of petrol stations which you can use to refill LPG in a motorhome UK is shrinking steadily. There is nothing within 20 miles or so of our home now.

 

Interesting that Morrisons allow refilling of Safefill bottles and on that basis we could still get away with refilling at Morrisons (since our Gas-It bottles have 80% cutoff valves) by removing them from the gas locker and using one of the illegal adapters you can buy on EBay And would the staff at Morrisons spot that someone was using the illegal adapters with a Calor bottle as long as it was unloaded from the gas locker?

 

Fortunately we still manage well enough by refilling the safe, conventional way as we get the opportunity when touring, so we've not yet come close to running out.

[paulmold]

I think it was the use of illegal adapters off eBay for filling standard Calor-type bottles which caused a fire at a station that brought about their rethink. As for gaslow bottles, if they have an external filler (which looks same as underslung tank filler) then I would think that's ok. Safefill have an agreement with Morrisons which is published on the Safefill website. I suggest the Morrisons reply above is printed and carried in the van. I've used Morrisons for the past two years (ever since buying my Autosleeper with underslung tank) and never had a problem.

[ernst]

We have gasit refillable with filling point just inside locker door,filled it twice at morrisons

never been questioned about it ,think it depends who is on the till,i always top up on route

even if its only a few ltrs because as everyone is aware they are getting harder to find.

[Derek Uzzell]

paulmold - 2019-12-10 11:35 AM

 

I think it was the use of illegal adapters off eBay for filling standard Calor-type bottles which caused a fire at a station that brought about their rethink. As for gaslow bottles, if they have an external filler (which looks same as underslung tank filler) then I would think that's ok. Safefill have an agreement with Morrisons which is published on the Safefill website. I suggest the Morrisons reply above is printed and carried in the van. I've used Morrisons for the past two years (ever since buying my Autosleeper with underslung tank) and never had a problem.

 

Received wisdom is that an accident in 2014 at a Morrisons service-station prompted Morrisons to ban motorcaravanners from refilling their LPG reservoirs. This was discussed in this 2016 forum thread

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Filling-L-P-G-at-Morrisons/41481/31/

 

and I’ve attached a copy of the relevant 2014 press photo below. It definitely looks like a Gaslow bottle was involved and refilling seems to have been done via a cobbled together filling-point in the gas-locker door.

 

The refilling adapters available on-line are not ‘illegal’, though using one to refill an exchange-only bottle (eg. a Calor cylinder) will be in breach of the rules of the company that owns the bottle. I own a Gaslow Direct bottle and this is sold with an adapter that permits it to be refilled directly from an LPG pump rather than via a remote filling-point. To refill my Gaslow bottle does require the door of my Rapido’s gas-locker to be opened, but there is no need to remove the Gaslow bottle from the locker, nor to disconnect it from the motorhome’s gas system.

 

As will be apparent from the lower attached photo, the thinking behind Safefill bottles is that they can be taken to an LPG pump for refilling. Even when refilling a Safefill cylinder can be carried out without it being removed from a gas-locker, it will still be necessary to disconnect it from a motorhome’s gas system and reconnect it afterwards. The practicability of installing a Safefill bottle in a motorhome in a similar manner to installing a Gaslow-type bottle has been mooted here in the past, but realistically it’s a non-starter.

 

Odd then that Morrisons specifically allow Safefill bottles to be refilled as, if the refilling method to be used is as suggested in the ‘girlie’ photo, the risk of a potential accident should be self-evident.

 

 

[Brock]

The has been a mountain of posts on the CMC forum concerning filling gas cylinders, especially SafeFill, at service stations.

 

According to the CMC Technical Team in August 2018, "The Red Guide’, published by the Petroleum Enforcement Liaison Group and User Information Sheet 026, published by UKLPG (the LPG industry’s trade association) was due to be revised and new versions published last year, and that this would allow for the filling of portable cylinders. However, the revised documents have still not been released, and therefore the Club’s view is that we cannot yet encourage members to adopt user-refillable portable cylinders."

 

Despite The Red Guide, it remains the responsibility of the seller to assess risks and act accordingly,

 

From the CMC forum, I saw last year SafeFill satisfied Morrisons that its gas cylinders were safe. Consequently, Morrisons became a partner to SafeFill whose web site continues to advertise the partnership.

[Derek Uzzell]

I notice that there is a Polish company marketing “Gas Bank” user-refillable composite gas cylinders.

 

These are offered in 5kg, 7.5kg and 11kg versions with a similar specification to Safefill bottles, and an 11kg ‘multi-valve’ cylinder that could be plumbed in like a Gaslow R67 bottle.

 

https://www.gas-bank.com/

 

https://www.gas-bank.com/single-vs-multi-specifications/

 

(Although a Safefill bottle may be technically ‘safe’ if care is taken when refilling, it would be foolish to believe that everybody who acquires a Safefill bottle will be competent to safely refill it. These bottles are not idiot-proof...)