MMM - mutterings and reactions

[Guest martin]

Those making comments about the magazine have failed to offer any solutions - if you comment you should also offer a solution. There's a limited number of things you can write about a new motor home, about tyres or gas bottles for goodness sake (Derek's posting is a great synopsis of the gas issue in two hundred words) having said it - then that is it! Subject done and dusted! MMM should correlate and link far more with this site to present FAQ's on key topics - properly compiled and edited (said that before). Commission the piece from a chosen, qualified expert, print it, and then offer it on line as the definitive, building MMM reference work. (Publish it later as a stand alone too - simple cross selling / brand development). Commercial constraints seem to preclude shoot-outs between three similar vans from different manufacturers (as in French magazines) and much of the editorial is ‘advertising puff’ rather than rigorous, independent editorial. The problem with any single issue magazine is the inevitable temptation to navel gaze and rely on too few contributors. We need more structured content, rather than the ramble round Rumania style. Material designed ahead of time and with some bite. The following is my copyright idea and I’ll be happy to deliver it if Mike want's to commission me - just time to do it this year! So: Commission at the beginning of the year 12 articles on (say) things to cook on your Cadec that relate directly to 12 local regions of Europe, possibly sponsored by Cadec. This lets the contributor plan an economical route, and for the Jago’s to approve stuff in advance and juggle to fit the seasons. Remember, most journalists pre-write much of their stuff. The piece would include local colour and a great tasting recipe, local wine suggestion plus a professionally photographed food picture on location. Nothing new it's what all food writers do! In a page you’ve covered a site, a recipe and local colour and establish a voice for the column which can evolve ... and the recipe, like "three sites for a tenner" should be designed so the core facts corner can be cut and kept - rather than ripping the whole page out! Factoid: Gary Rhodes takes two weeks off to write 52 weekly columns every January for one newspaper – so they are coherent and planned and tested. Oops have I gone too far again?

[Guest PeteC]

I agree that if you wish to criticise you SHOULD offer an alternative Personally I dont read ANY report by a journalist Not since an (Unnamed) Journalist friend was picked up by some (also friends) athletes. After he/she wrote an article about some equipment Our concern was the the equipment was designed for experienced users and he/she wrote that it was suitable for beginners The answer was that the manufacturers wnted to sell the said equipment to beginners - and his job was to "Keep the manufacturers happy - so that they would return with more work" The Journalist is now EDITOR of a large national SPORT BASED magazine My sister had the experience (an international sprinter) of a jounalist asking leading questions based on what they wanted to hear. When she answered honestly but not what was wanted the interview was cut short The article was nor printed and the project that they wanted to stop went ahead

[Guest Brian Kirby]

Martin I think the problem is that much of what is of interest to motorhomers is, essentially, transient and repetitive. Mostly what changes is the motorhomes themselves (new models and layouts etc) and their related accessories (which seems inescapably to involve advertising of same - but why not, if that provides an additional source of income?) and the motorhomers. As new motorhomers "arrive" on the scene, they run into all the old problems (tyre pressures: oops that was me, wasn't it!) and then ask all the old questions, all over again (sorry folks!). Therefore, it seems to me, just printing off one definitive article won't catch them all. The problem is dynamic. A new (or prospective) motorhomer will discover the magazine the very next month, think of something he doesn't know the answer to, (answered in the previous month's mag) and then ask the question - for the 999th time! What I think might be interesting would be to link the magazine and the "forum" more closely, so that they became a bit more integrated. The definitive answers could then, perhaps, go onto forum in a searchable directory. Of course not everyone has computer access, but the rising gemerations anr, generally computer literate, so access seems likely to grow with time. It's good to be ahead of the curve, albeit not too far ahead. Into that kind of database could also go such reference items as MMM's "Four Tenners" items. Now, preferably with a bit of additional input from, say, ACSI, MMM could then maintain a web accessible, searchable, campsites directory. The real pie in the sky bit would be a tie up with "Le Monde du Camping Car" or "Camping Car Magazine" (that might be interesting anyway, since their slant is a bit different and some sharing of articles could be informative - head to head shoot outs between similar 'vans etc), who maintain a non wab based inventory of aires in France and elsewhere. One web / CD based source of information on sites and aires with updatable user comments - now that might prove very attractive. I did try floating the bones of the idea some time back with MMM, siad they were considering re-modelling forum a bit at the time but I've heard no more. The contentious bit was that I suggested it might be worth a modest additional subscription! I still think it would, but others will doubtless disagree. How about it Guys and Gals? Re PeteC's comments: since most, if not all, media based information comes via journalists, where do you find out about things? Clearly not papers, magazines, TV or radio - but what's left? The man in the pub? AND, WHY DO YOU KEEP SHOUTING? Regards Brian

[Guest Dave Newell]

PeteC. If you don't read anything from any "Journalist". how did you get onto this forum as it's only supposed to be accessible to people who either bought the mag in a shop or have it on subscription. If you don't read "Journalist's" writings why do you buy MMM as most of it is written by "Journalists"? According to one online dictionary a "Journalist" is defined as: One who keeps a journal. D.

[Guest martin]

Thanks Brian for taking me seriously: your excellent reply that has made me think again. There seems to be three key strands: one dealing with buying/new vans and marketplace trends (and yes shootouts would be great, a second what to do with it when you've got it and great ideas for trips and tested locations, and a third keeping it on the road, and running smoothly. My problem is that I am not sufficiently well off to change our van every time someone comes along with something new. It is the freedom and pleasure it gives us that I enjoy. I do think Warners are increasingly blurring the line between their editorial and advertising/financial interests. But that apart: I do look for a real variety of interesting ideas of what to do with our van and find that increasingly predictable and limited in style. The fact that it is nearly all written in the first person may be a style thing, but leads to critical 'factoids' being missed. The charm of the personal saga isn't always balanced by the cold, clear factual information of the best guides. The letters continue to be quirky and unpredictably predictable with plenty of bees and bonnets (as is this Forum where not all postings add to the debate: And good news folks!!! I’ve issued myself with a fatwa never to rise to posts on gassing, tyres, Caravan Club or GPS again!). Brian you seem to agree with me that a more developed web based reference source is called for, and that a much more integrated approach would be a good thing. As you suggest, the ability to pull off site reviews would be great wouldn't it – so many valuable ideas have been lost - excpet by those few who fastidiously keep and use back copies to insulate their loft. You also took the words out of my mouth about interchanges and cross referencing with some of the European magazines – great idea – let's look more at that! One of them does an annual gadgets and 'add-on-bits' review which is superb – that's how I discovered the bleeping reversing lamp – see: www.cybercampingcar.com/htm/general_pages/page.boutique.fiche.accessoires.php?sel_produit=166035&pub=webmarchand Worth a para in the mag next month maybe?

[Guest Brian Kirby]

Ah, yes. But the bleeping reversing light, was, I'm sure, a topic in an old letters or Interchange query. If I rember, they're not strictly legal in UK, - but can be bought from Masters or Narbonne Accessoires in France. Good example, though, of something that could have been pulled up - if only the databese were there. What strikes me is that traditional printed magazines have yet to decide how best to capitalise on the internet. However, I don't think that necessarily means they will disappear as pronted paper. The ads only make that mag heavy, they don't really intrude into the reading! They just help to pay the bills. Since nearly all magazine copy will be typeset from computers, it seems reasonable to assume those computer files are probably archived somewhere. If thse were converted to .pdf files, they could be downloaded, including even the pictures, over a broadband link. That would mean that anyone who had access rights could get old articles, tests, Interchange items, whatever, wothout having to buy the whole mag as a back issue. Alternatively, but I think less attractive, how about the back issue being sent on CD? I know it means you have to have a computer and broaband, but more and more are doing so bacause the price is falling. That is the area where I think the best present use could be made of the internet by publishers. The newspapers tend to do something along those lines, often for no charge. It's a matter of getting the best from both media. Print, for ease of reading and good graphics and artwork: internet for searchability and rapid recovery of archive material. Regards Brian