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MOT
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userpaws
Posted: 22 January 2019 11:03 AM
Subject: MOT
 
Having a look around

Posts: 36
25
Location: Caerphilly



MOT is due in a couple of weeks,usually passes without any problem. I'm a bit concerned this time as I have a rear offside high level marker light that is obscured from the front by a wind out awning.

I've seen a few threads on other forums with people speculating as to whether this is now a failure under the recent MOT changes but no definitive answer.

Has anyone put a motorhome through an MOT recently with a light in a similar position and if so what was the outcome.

Apologies if this has been raised before

Thanks

Patrick

PS Don't know if it has any bearing but van is 6m long by 2.35m wide and 2.75m high
userthebishbus
Posted: 22 January 2019 11:29 AM
Subject: RE: MOT
 


Treasured contributor

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Location: Warwickshire 01 Hymer 584


Logically,I would say as long as it is visible from the rear and the side, it should be ok.You could check with the MOT people before the test.
Brian B.

Edited by thebishbus 2019-01-22 11:37 AM
userKeithl
Posted: 22 January 2019 11:39 AM
Subject: RE: MOT
 


Forum master

Posts: 4479
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Location: Birmingham. 2004 Auto-Trail Cheyenne Mercedes 313.


If they do say it will fail then all you need to do is pack it out from the side of the MH to clear the awning. Should not be too hard to fabricate a packing block and hopefully the wires will be long enough to work.

Keith.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 22 January 2019 12:08 PM
Subject: RE: MOT
 


5000500050001000100100
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Patrick

The MOT inspection manual is available on-line

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/

and Section 4 is relevant to vehicle lighting

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/manuals/class3457/Section-4-Lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment.html

with ‘mandatory end-outline marker lamps’ (ie. “high level marker lights”) covered in sub-sections 4.2.1 and 4.2.3

The visibility criteria are stated as

There must be:

2 white lamps visible from the front and positioned at windscreen upper edge level or higher

2 red lamps visible from the rear and positioned as high as is practicable

The front and rear end outline marker lamps on each side can be combined in one lamp.


So if your motorhome has its end-outline marker lamps combined into a single unit (as is commonly the case when the lamps are mounted on a motorhome’s sides) and your awning prevents the white part of the lamp being seen from the front of the motorhome, this might result in an MOT failure.
userpaws
Posted: 22 January 2019 12:48 PM
Subject: RE: MOT
 
Having a look around

Posts: 36
25
Location: Caerphilly


Hi Derek ,thanks for the detailed reply

Do you know if the criteria changed for the most recent edition of the MOT manual as the motorhome has always passed the MOT with the marker light obscured.

Thanks

Patrick
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 22 January 2019 1:58 PM
Subject: RE: MOT
 


5000500050001000100100
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


This link is to the relevant MOT Manual that was operative from 2012 until the 2018 revision

http://www.ukmot.com/mot-manual/#MOTMANUAL

and this section mentions marker lamps

http://www.ukmot.com/manual/1.1/Front-and-Rear-Position-Lamps#MOT

It appears that - for the ‘old’ MOT test - inspection of "end outline marker lamps” was only required for Class 5 vehicles. These are defined as private passenger vehicles, motor caravans, ambulances and dual-purpose vehicles that in all cases have 13 or more passenger seats and few (if any) motorhomes in the UK fall into that category.

So (assuming your motorhome has less than 13 seats ) your obscured lamp would not have provoked an MOT test failure in the past, but now could.
userpaws
Posted: 22 January 2019 2:44 PM
Subject: RE: MOT
 
Having a look around

Posts: 36
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Location: Caerphilly


Derek Uzzell - 2019-01-22 1:58 PM

This link is to the relevant MOT Manual that was operative from 2012 until the 2018 revision

http://www.ukmot.com/mot-manual/#MOTMANUAL

and this section mentions marker lamps

http://www.ukmot.com/manual/1.1/Front-and-Rear-Position-Lamps#MOT

It appears that - for the ‘old’ MOT test - inspection of "end outline marker lamps” was only required for Class 5 vehicles. These are defined as private passenger vehicles, motor caravans, ambulances and dual-purpose vehicles that in all cases have 13 or more passenger seats and few (if any) motorhomes in the UK fall into that category.

So (assuming your motorhome has less than 13 seats ) your obscured lamp would not have provoked an MOT test failure in the past, but now could.




Ok thanks for that Derek
userpaws
Posted: 22 January 2019 4:37 PM
Subject: RE: MOT
 
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Posts: 36
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Location: Caerphilly


Just rang three separate MOT stations = got two passes and a maybe.
Unable to get in touch with the actual place it will be tested as both testers are off sick. Must be a stressful job.

Patrick
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 22 January 2019 6:33 PM
Subject: RE: MOT
 


5000500050001000100100
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


It should be clear from the latest MOT-test inspection manual that, if a vehicle has end-outline marker lamps (and those lamps are mandatory for that vehicle), if the white lamp (or the white part of a combined white/red lamp) is absolutely invisible from the front of the vehicle, this fails to meet the test’s requirements.

So, if your (presumably combined white/red) marker lamp is so close to the rear end of the awning that it’s impoosible to see the white part of the lamp until you stand at 90-degrees to your motorhome’s side, that’s got to be an indisputable test ‘fault’.

There’s nothing in the MOT-test documentation defining exactly what “visble from the front” means, or how much of the lamp needs to be visble. So, if one were to lie on the ground and look upwards towards the rear end of the awning, and could then see part of the lamp, would that be acceptable?

I suspect that few MOT testers will be picky about this unless a white end-outline marker lamp obviously cannot be seen at all from a motorhome’s front.

This MOT-test rule-change has the potential to affect lots of motorhomes. My Rapido has ‘combined’ end-outline marker lamps on the motorhome’s side, but towards the vehicle’s front rather than towards the back. Although my Rapido does not have an awning, it’s apparent that an awning could obscure the red part of the UK-offside marker lamp when viewed from the motorhome’s rear.
userpaws
Posted: 22 January 2019 7:20 PM
Subject: RE: MOT
 
Having a look around

Posts: 36
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Location: Caerphilly



Both MOT testers that said it would pass were only concerned that the marker lights showed red from the rear and not at all bothered that the white light could not be seen from the front

Patrick
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 23 January 2019 8:09 AM
Subject: RE: MOT
 


5000500050001000100100
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Perhaps they should re-read the current MOT-test inspection manual...

Realistically, where a motorhome has end-outline marker lamps of the type that are combined in a single white/red unit (1st photo below shows a Hella lamp that is commonly fitted to motorhomes) and there’s just a single lamp fitted part way along each side of the motorhome, even if there is nothing (eg. an awning) that might obscure the lamp’s light, if a person stands in front (or behind) the motorhome in a position that’s on the motorhome’s ‘centre-line’, it won’t be possible to meet the MOT-test’s lamp-visibility requirements as the motorhome’s body will get in the way.

The 2nd photo below shows a Rapido 640F (like mine) and although the awning does not obscure the light of the Hella ‘combination’ end-outline marker lamp that’s just in front of it, it should be obvious that it would not be possible to see the lamp’s red light if one looked from the vehicle’s rear down the motorhome’s centre-line. The only way to meet the MOT-test’s visibility requirements would be to have separate dedicated white and red lamps - two white ones at the front and two red ones at the rear.

Pesonally, I’ve never believed that end-outline marker lamps on motorhomes have any real-world value. Tthey inevitably involve the vehicle’s bodywork being drilled to accept electrical cabling with the potential for water to enter subsequently and, when the lamps are the combination type, their visibility from either the motorhome’s front or rear is bound to be restricted. What are these lamps for? Aircraft don’t fly that low and the lamps are unlikely to cause owls to take evasive action.

If MOT testers are going to adopt a policy of passing a motorhome as long as its combination end-outline marker lights illuminate and show red from the rear, that’s fine by me - but that doesn’t seem to be what the MOT-test inspection manual advises.



(hella-end-outline-marker-light.JPG)



(Rapido 640F.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments hella-end-outline-marker-light.JPG (40KB - 18 downloads)
Attachments Rapido 640F.jpg (65KB - 16 downloads)
userKeithl
Posted: 23 January 2019 8:13 AM
Subject: RE: MOT
 


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Simple answer - if they are not required on a Class IV vehicle then remove them!

Keith.
userchas
Posted: 23 January 2019 8:44 AM
Subject: RE: MOT
 
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Or if push comes to shove, fit one in front of the awning as well, troublesome yes, but it shoud pass then.

I will be in exactly that position in May for my MOT. so will bear all this in mind, lets hope we all find out what we are supposed to do.

My awning is only held to the fixing brackets by 3 self tappers, not a big job to take it off just for the MOT , that would also give a chance to clean all the gunge off that can collect behind the awning.

Edited by chas 2019-01-23 8:58 AM
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 23 January 2019 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: MOT
 


5000500050001000100100
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Keithl - 2019-01-23 8:13 AM

Simple answer - if they are not required on a Class IV vehicle then remove them!

Keith.


Unless a vehicle’s first use was prior to 1 April 1991, if the vehicle’s width exceeds 2.1m (excluding side mirrors) it needs to have end-outline marker lamps. The guidance in the MOT-test inspection manual is

End-outline marker lamps

You must inspect end-outline marker lamps on vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1991 that are wider than 2,100mm, excluding side mirrors.


The ‘over 2.1m-wide’ requirement for fitment of these lamps applied to Class 4 vehicles when the pre-2018 MOT-test was in force. The significant difference is that under the pre-2018 MOT-test rules inspection of end-outline marker lamps applied only to Class 5 vehicles, but the 2018-onwards MOT-test end-outline marker lamps inspection now applies to Class 4 vehicles too.
userpaws
Posted: 23 January 2019 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: MOT
 
Having a look around

Posts: 36
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Location: Caerphilly




Might be easier for me to remove the awning for the MOT
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 23 January 2019 11:33 AM
Subject: RE: MOT
 


5000500050001000100100
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


paws - 2019-01-22 4:37 PM

Just rang three separate MOT stations = got two passes and a maybe.
Unable to get in touch with the actual place it will be tested as both testers are off sick. Must be a stressful job.

Patrick


My experience has been that MOT-test examiners will rarely take a ‘hard line’ when it’s common-sense that some sort of minor non-compliance with the test regulations is most unlikely to have safety implications.

If you can get confirmation that the examiners at the MOT-test centre that will be dealing with your motorhome won’t fail it due to the relative positions of the awning and marker lamp, it would save temporarily removing the awning. Awnings are heavy and removal/replacement a task that’s best not attempted if it can be avoided.
usermonique.hubrechts@gm
Posted: 24 January 2019 3:47 PM
Subject: RE: MOT
 


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Location: essen belgium


Most important. To avoid water ingress. As they are not properly sealed in the factory. You have to take extra sealing. Hella or Jokon whatever. Take a kit in 45 degrees.
userpaws
Posted: 6 February 2019 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: MOT
 
Having a look around

Posts: 36
25
Location: Caerphilly


Update - motorhome passed MOT with marker light obscured from front view.
The tester commented, but didn't note it. He said that as long as it worked it didn't matter if you couldn't see it from the front.
By the way I don't have front marker lights.

His only other comment about marker lights was that they had been told to check that they were actually fitted (probably width dependant ) , and that they hadn't been removed or taped over.

Anyway , happy days

Patrick
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