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Motorhome Alarm Systems


RFC7

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Having suffered a Motorhome break in whilst in Italy earlier this year, I made a note that on my return to the UK I would investigate the fitting of an alarm system.

 

A few days later whilst playing with the dog, the tennis ball bounced off the side of an adjacent parked up Motorhome and set off the alarm system, it was that sensitive!

 

I want this system fitted in my Hymer Exsis 588i, any recommendations or advice would be most welcome.

 

RFC7

 

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Do you really want something that sensitive? It's likely to go off at all wrong times and end up being a nuisance and being ignored. Get one that you can set for zones within the van or even just on the doors so that you can alarm the van while you are in it.

Good hunting.

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What ever alarm you choose, suggest you ensure they don't wire it from the Starter battery, but wire it from the Habitation battery main controller, Sargent, Schaudt, or whatever as these days almost all have a dedicated output for an Alarm that stays powered even when the control panel is turned off and the 12v shutdown.

 

It is now done this way so that the Starter battery is never drained flat by the alarm and the habitation battery bank is more likely to be twice the size, so last twice as long.

The habitation battery is also usually better supplied with Solar power than the Starter battery.

The same outputs are also designed to be used for Trackers, etc.

 

Most alarm fitters are so used to wiring up cars which only have a Starter battery that they approach motorhomes the same way, but cars don't stand idle for day/weeks/months..

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I had a Cobra alarm system that covers the doors and the bonnet and also has a internal sensor that detects movement inside the van. The internal sensor can be simply disabled by a 2nd press on the arming key fob with in 10secs. Had it fitted by a local company but as Andy says they wire it to the starter battery and I have had issues with the battery being drained if the van is not used for a week or so. I resolved that issue by hard wiring a trickle charger to the starter battery (no need to open bonnet or lift access cover under passenger's feet) so when on EHU if I need to can connect the charger for a day or two at a time. Good idea by Andy to get them to wire alarm to habitation battery. If you can get to Taunton might be worth investigating Vanbitz as they specialise in alarm systems. They have a campsite you can use (free I think) whilst you wait for the work to be done.
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Rooster63 - think you are referring to Allan not Andy. Glad to see Allan is still managing to post despite his serious health problems - well done Allan and best wishes to your wife and two young children.

 

I also have a Cobra alarm (came with the van). I find it fairly basic but very reliable. It is hard-wired to the door sensors which is far superior to the non hard-wired systems which rely on microwave signals sent to the door sensors. Also the batteries in the door sensors only last a couple of years before having to be replaced.

 

So suggest the OP goes for a hard-wired system. The installers love microwave systems because it's less work for them and generates more profit.

 

On previous van I had vanbitz strikeback. It's very good but after a few years had to replace the reed switches because of erroneous alarms. The system is always on, monitoring the door sensors, so any slight discrepancy in the return signal sets off the alarm. The engine bonnet sensor was the main culprit which obviously is in a very hostile environment.

 

The Cobra system is "normally off" so only responds when a door is opened and the reed switch closes to trigger the alarm.

 

If you are a paid member of MotorhomeFun forum you get 10% discount at Vanbitz.

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Hi Allan,

Very happy to hear you are active and still offering your valuable assistance, you may recall you fitted an Exchange E-Block to my Hymer Exsis 588i in North Wales a couple of years ago, problem free ever since.

NB: We talked about the RAC Rally and driving Escorts around The Great Orme, great times.....

When we met I seem to recall you telling me there is a spare fused outlet on the charging block under the seat that can be used for wiring in an alarm system, that is linked to the habitation batteries, am I right?

I am pretty set on installing a vibration type of alarm, as I was very impressed with the one referred to in my initial post.

The Bas..... d that broke into my Motorhome forced open the large perspex side window and climbed in that way, I think the type of alarm I am looking for would have been set off at this stage and he/she would have legged it!. With this in mind, I am not going to hardwire contacts to six windows and four doors, so the Shake and Wake system ticks all the boxes for me, I just need to locate the best unit.

Best regards

 

RFC7

 

 

 

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RFC7 - 2019-07-10 4:34 PM

 

Hi Allan,

Very happy to hear you are active and still offering your valuable assistance, you may recall you fitted an Exchange E-Block to my Hymer Exsis 588i in North Wales a couple of years ago, problem free ever since.

NB: We talked about the RAC Rally and driving Escorts around The Great Orme, great times.....

When we met I seem to recall you telling me there is a spare fused outlet on the charging block under the seat that can be used for wiring in an alarm system, that is linked to the habitation batteries, am I right?

I am pretty set on installing a vibration type of alarm, as I was very impressed with the one referred to in my initial post.

The Bas..... d that broke into my Motorhome forced open the large perspex side window and climbed in that way, I think the type of alarm I am looking for would have been set off at this stage and he/she would have legged it!. With this in mind, I am not going to hardwire contacts to six windows and four doors, so the Shake and Wake system ticks all the boxes for me, I just need to locate the best unit.

Best regards

 

RFC7

 

 

 

RFC7, Thank you. I remember the visit and the discussion, which is unusual for me.

 

It depends on the Elektroblock, if it is an early EBL99, the best place is to take power from Block 7 where Pin 1 is the negative and Pin 2 the Positive

That is permanently live.

 

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Hi

 

I am a van blitz fan. I have tried others but never been happy with them.

 

Van blitz will be triggered by movement inside the van but this can be disabled if you use overnight.

 

It also has a bike loop which has saved my bikes.

 

Take a look at the website. They have various levels but I use the basic. Had one fitted to my current van when I purchased last year.

 

Petrr

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Most MH alarm systems these days have internal movement sensors. These can be switched off at night whilst the external perimeter openings remain alarmed.

 

However, it does mean that the plastic windows are vulnerable at night. I've fitted Milenco window alarms which are armed each night. Or you can leave them on permanently unless of course you wish to open a window during the day. Pack of 6 for about £30. It gives additional peace of mind whilst sleeping.

 

RFC7, how about spending a bit of time completing your profile details. After all we've spent time giving you advice so it's your turn now to reciprocate :-D

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Thanks, Allan,

 

I will check out the power hook up from the EBL-99 Block once I decide on the alarm system.

 

NB: Some of the information tips that are picked on forums are priceless.

 

RFC7

 

 

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In order to make it Thatcham approved alarm system, the security product has to be connected to the Starter Battery electrics.

 

As with most of the later Euro 6 vehicles, this also has to be connected to the Can-Bus correctly, in order to prevent warning lights on the dashboard from coming on. I would also insist on the system to be a "Stand-Alone" product that isn't connected to the OBD diagnostic connecter (Which uses your existing Central locking key as some systems are!!), which can be easily by-passed within minutes.

 

It is also worth bearing in mind that with someone publicly sharing a link on another forum to a new product that can by-pass the Sevel systems (Peugeot/Citroen/Fiat) in minutes, it might be worth considering another line of defence in terms of remote immobilisation.

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There seem to be two types of alarm needed, one that alerts you to break ins to steal contents, the other to prevent theft of the vehicle. (And technology is making that enticingly easy.)

I have always thought that visible security will help to prevent theft of the vehicle, the thief will hopefully move onto an easier target. I personally lock the driver's seat in the reversed position.

I have a strikeback alarm linked to windows and doors, with big warning stickers for contents theft, but determined thieves can cause more damage than they actually steal.

A friend in London left her old,mini open, with an old radio on the dashboard connected with clips.

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NickVanBitz - 2019-07-17 3:10 PM

 

In order to make it Thatcham approved alarm system, the security product has to be connected to the Starter Battery electrics.

 

.

 

Nickvanbitz, I can't find that as a specific requirement in my Thatcham installation docs, which page and section is that stipulated for installers?.

 

It is often a lot easier to undo the Starter battery Earth clamp than it is to locate some motorhomes Leisure battery to isolate them.

If what you say is true, Thatcham need to move forward into this century as one Battery is little more secure than the other but the advantages of using the Leisure battery as the supply are many.

 

 

 

Billggski, agree totally on visible, physical security as the best way to protect the base vehicle.

 

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NickVanBitz - 2019-07-17 3:10 PM

It is also worth bearing in mind that with someone publicly sharing a link on another forum to a new product that can by-pass the Sevel systems (Peugeot/Citroen/Fiat) in minutes, it might be worth considering another line of defence in terms of remote immobilisation.

 

Not sure if you're criticizing me for posting the link Nick, but surely it is worth letting owners know about the type of devices that are out there and being used by organised crime groups. If it convinces more owners to invest in a good security product such as yours, that's a good thing IMO.

 

Trust me when I say that the people using those key compromise devices don't need to rely on me posting about them to find out where or how to get their hands on one!

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Deneb - 2019-07-18 8:16 AM

 

Not sure if you're criticizing me for posting the link Nick, but surely it is worth letting owners know about the type of devices that are out there and being used by organised crime groups. If it convinces more owners to invest in a good security product such as yours, that's a good thing IMO.

 

Trust me when I say that the people using those key compromise devices don't need to rely on me posting about them to find out where or how to get their hands on one!

,

 

No insults intended I can assure you!! Whilst I appreciate awareness of these products is important, as you know social media has eyes everywhere and would only takes the wrong set of eyes to find the post and that's possibly another person armed with information as such. I must stress though, there was no criticism intended, apologies if it was taken as such

:-( .

 

@aandncaravanservices. Thatcham's requirements are to the Battery Source, external lighting and Ignition (and if applicable, immobilisation cuts to starter and fuel/ignition sources). Whilst in the good old days of standard DC electrics go, it was very much possible to connect in an alarm in as such, but now with Can-BUS electrics to both Cab and Habitation circuits, connectivity to a different source from the ignition and lighting circuits can and will cause havoc on any such vehicle say from the post 2007 era.

 

Whilst I see your logic in relation to the benefits of connection to the leisure side, a good system will draw minimal power and be supported by a battery back-up (even with some systems warning you of a low battery/battery disconnect in the event of such power cuts). Also with charging systems/Solar/Battery Transfer devices, your engine battery should be supported anyway as most people know the modern chassis cabs notoriously have a high engine battery drain, regardless of any security equipment that has been connected and the above devices are coming through most if not all M/Homes as standard.

 

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NickVanBitz - 2019-07-18 9:36 AM

 

 

 

@aandncaravanservices. Thatcham's requirements are to the Battery Source, external lighting and Ignition (and if applicable, immobilisation cuts to starter and fuel/ignition sources). Whilst in the good old days of standard DC electrics go, it was very much possible to connect in an alarm in as such, but now with Can-BUS electrics to both Cab and Habitation circuits, connectivity to a different source from the ignition and lighting circuits can and will cause havoc on any such vehicle say from the post 2007 era.

 

 

 

What motorhome uses the Base vehicle CANbus for habitation electrics?

They all connect in to the charging circuit after the engine is started (when the Alarm is then 'off') but not seen any other crossover. What make/model motorhomes have you seen the habitation electrics use the base vehicle CANbus?

 

I understand a Base vehicle Alarm/Immobiliser must isolate the ignition circuits, Starter Motor, etc.

But this isolation of the ignition can still be achieved with the Alarm unit connected to an alternative power source to the Starter battery, like the Leisure battery,

 

I have gone through the Thatcham Install documents again this morning and still can't find any comments that stipulate the Starter battery must be the primary power source?

In fact an old Thatcham document suggests that using a hidden, standalone battery for the Alarm should be considered as a safer option to the Starter battery, for obvious reasons..

One Tracker installation document I have, Thatcham approved, also suggests a hidden power source separate to the Starter battery is a good idea.

 

By using the Leisure battery, that we have never seen using the Base Vehicle CANbus system, there are obviously no issues using this as the power source either.

 

I think every one knows that the Starter battery has some drain, but isn't that a good reason not to add to it, rather than your logic of saying it's going to run down anyway so it doesn't matter.

Also the habitation battery is usually twice the size, so twice the protection.

Lastly the Solar power to the habitation battery is almost always far higher than a trickle to the Starter batter, which in Winter can make a big difference.

.

 

 

 

 

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NickVanBitz - 2019-07-18 9:36 AM

No insults intended I can assure you!! Whilst I appreciate awareness of these products is important, as you know social media has eyes everywhere and would only takes the wrong set of eyes to find the post and that's possibly another person armed with information as such. I must stress though, there was no criticism intended, apologies if it was taken as such

:-(

 

No problem ;-)

 

There is always a balance to be struck in this area, but I sometimes think we try to keep a lid on things too much, especially when they are so easy to find on websites and You Tube by anyone with access to a browser.

 

The cost of these devices makes them mainly used by organised criminals who are effectively running businesses in stealing vehicles. They wouldn't be cost effective for an opportunist joy rider. Nevertheless, when we sent an investigator to a known outlet in London a few years ago, he joined a queue of people handing over wads of cash for the Ford devices, so I doubt my post makes any difference in the wider world, other than to convince some doubting MH owners of their existence.

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Hi,

Most of the latest BMC-I and BMC-T Hymer Group are starting to come through using Can-Bus modulation, along with other multi-control devices. There is also the RV markets also using the same process.

 

I'm presuming you are talking of the D+ of the Sargent, along with other ways, but you will get no end of issues with regards to conflictions between the 2 systems especially on later Euro 6, as most of the time the builders are having to install CAN-Readers/Writers in order to make the habitation circuits work alongside the chassis circuits including external lighting. There are some builders having issues with this on the very latest Mercedes chassis, as the Mercedes does have Hibernation/Stand-by power modes that are conflicting with their habitation installations. This is one of the many reasons we've been given by customers why their vans have been delayed.

 

Some Tracking Systems are a different animal, as they only require a power source and ignition recognition (CAT 6/VTS), so you can do things different with these systems.

 

I cannot comment on other security product's power demands, ours is extremely low but there has always been a bigger problem with engine battery drain on anything post 2007. For example, Peugeot's latest "Fix" to it's Boxer, is to create a battery disconnect using the ignition key's position, thus turning power from the Body Computer off when the vehicle is disconnected.

 

Like I said, whilst I agree that the leisure battery bank is a good source of power, there will be conflictions between the 2 systems. Most regulators/Battery Balancers are more than enough to sustain a typical battery drain when the vehicle isn't in use and whilst dual regulators can be a help, we much favour the Battery Balancing methods used by most good mains chargers and accessories that can be bought on the market that can be retro fitted . Whilst again I cannot comment on other people's equipment, it hasn't presented an issue thus far of the hundreds of motorhomes we work on each year (averaging 3 vans a day, 5 days a week).

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Deneb - 2019-07-18 10:58 AM

 

 

No problem ;-)

 

There is always a balance to be struck in this area, but I sometimes think we try to keep a lid on things too much, especially when they are so easy to find on websites and You Tube by anyone with access to a browser.

 

The cost of these devices makes them mainly used by organised criminals who are effectively running businesses in stealing vehicles. They wouldn't be cost effective for an opportunist joy rider. Nevertheless, when we sent an investigator to a known outlet in London a few years ago, he joined a queue of people handing over wads of cash for the Ford devices, so I doubt my post makes any difference in the wider world, other than to convince some doubting MH owners of their existence.

 

 

I couldn't agree more in that lots of things are kept hush hush and awareness is everything. May be by posting the link, when companies are trying to sell there wares there is a proving ground and merit to having this information on the web, but I guess I'm always wary of how the social media scene is an all-seeing platform of which at times knowledge can be dangerous???

 

 

I would imagine that the opportunist wouldn't take the time to troll in that regard, I couldn't agree more. However as we are so pro-active in protecting ourselves, these low-lives will look to the web for means and ways to an end goal. What's more concerning is that there are also manufacturer's fitting equipment at point of build, but not being creative in hiding the equipment and just fitting it in a generic place. We have had cases brought to our attention of vans post theft, that the locations of these systems have been found in the same places and merely ripped out. Not pointing fingers, but they use the same consumer units and fit as a "Plug-n-Play", not the sort of thing that should be adopted for in a security product.

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NickVanBitz - 2019-07-18 11:17 AM

 

Hi,

Most of the latest BMC-I and BMC-T Hymer Group are starting to come through using Can-Bus modulation, along with other multi-control devices. There is also the RV markets also using the same process.

 

I'm presuming you are talking of the D+ of the Sargent, along with other ways, but you will get no end of issues with regards to conflictions between the 2 systems especially on later Euro 6, as most of the time the builders are having to install CAN-Readers/Writers in order to make the habitation circuits work alongside the chassis circuits including external lighting. There are some builders having issues with this on the very latest Mercedes chassis, as the Mercedes does have Hibernation/Stand-by power modes that are conflicting with their habitation installations. This is one of the many reasons we've been given by customers why their vans have been delayed.

 

Some Tracking Systems are a different animal, as they only require a power source and ignition recognition (CAT 6/VTS), so you can do things different with these systems.

 

I cannot comment on other security product's power demands, ours is extremely low but there has always been a bigger problem with engine battery drain on anything post 2007. For example, Peugeot's latest "Fix" to it's Boxer, is to create a battery disconnect using the ignition key's position, thus turning power from the Body Computer off when the vehicle is disconnected.

 

Like I said, whilst I agree that the leisure battery bank is a good source of power, there will be conflictions between the 2 systems. Most regulators/Battery Balancers are more than enough to sustain a typical battery drain when the vehicle isn't in use and whilst dual regulators can be a help, we much favour the Battery Balancing methods used by most good mains chargers and accessories that can be bought on the market that can be retro fitted . Whilst again I cannot comment on other people's equipment, it hasn't presented an issue thus far of the hundreds of motorhomes we work on each year (averaging 3 vans a day, 5 days a week).

 

 

NickVanBitz, But all those you list are related to the triggering of the Habitation Power Controller to tell it the engine is running so it can hook in the Leisure battery for charging, etc.

None of those vehicles actually have any part of the habitation area electrics running from the base vehicle CANbus and are all totally unrelated to an Alarm powered from the Leisure battery.

 

For 50+ years the industry has worked on automated methods to ensure no habitation appliances, lights, etc. can run off the Starter battery so it has always been isolated when the Alternator stops. Why would builders now start wiring them into the Base Vehicle CANbus, that doesn't make sense?

 

If using the Leisure battery would be such a huge issue, why are there no problems when the Leisure battery is connected to the Base vehicle CANbus electrics system to charge it?

 

 

Sorry Nick, you are doing a good job to defend the way you do it, but starting off saying it is a Thatcham essential requirement and then moving on to ECU controlled Alternators has no bearing on an Alarms power source.

 

 

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aandncaravan - 2019-07-18 12:14 PM

 

For 50+ years the industry has worked on automated methods to ensure no habitation appliances, lights, etc. can run off the Starter battery so it has always been isolated when the Alternator stops. Why would builders now start wiring them into the Base Vehicle CANbus, that doesn't make sense?

 

If using the Leisure battery would be such a huge issue, why are there no problems when the Leisure battery is connected to the Base vehicle CANbus electrics system to charge it?

 

 

Sorry Nick, you are doing a good job to defend the way you do it, but starting off saying it is a Thatcham essential requirement and then moving on to ECU controlled Alternators has no bearing on an Alarms power source.

 

 

Firstly Where on earth did ECU controlled alternators come from??? At no point did I single out a component on a vehicle!!

Secondly the chassis and habitation electrics are controlled by modulation - fact! Gone are the days when you can simply supply power to an indicator circuit without it throwing up a fault on the vehicle, or worse it just doesn't power the lights in which you want to control when the alarm is armed and disarmed, or in the builder's case tap into the lighting circuit to make lights work that aren't original to the chassis. This is also verified when fitting towing electrics to cars, as most if not all cases you need a specific harness and module, or if you're extremely lucky a universal Can-Reader just to make the lighting circuit work on the trailer or caravan your towing.

 

Thirdly I don't need a history lesson on the concept of different 12v sources on a motorcaravan. There isn't an easy fix when it comes to separating engine and leisure circuits any more, without charging issues through re-gen, making circuits work etc etc. Ask anyone building a camper using either the very latest Mercedes/VW T6/Ford Chassis and they will tell you that 12v fridges stop working and leisure batteries do not get charged correctly all because of how the Euro6/Re-gen systems work. Hymer on the very latest Mercedes have had to install a DC-DC charger just to get the leisure batteries charged, CBE uses a D+ signal with a voltage sense relay to get the engine and leisure batteries in parallel then holds the relay on to keep power transfer between engine and leisure as the relay would kick out during re-gen, the downside is the leisure battery is only charged as good as the engine battery, no good if the engine battery is a AGM 75ah and you have 2x 100ah lead acids.

 

Connectivity as an alarm product has to work in harmony with the Chassis system to control external lights when arming and disarming, control central locking when arming/disarming (although not recommended by us, or used as such) and if you are a member of the TRI scheme, this information should be available to you.

I recommend that the next time you have an opportunity to look at a 2019 Autosleeper Broadway for example, clamber underneath the back of the motorhome and take a look at the lengths the manufacturer has had to go to just to stop warning lights coming on the dash. Also any of the New MCT or MCI models from Hymer, with factory Mercedes modules to control the lighting on the Hymer body.

 

Tracking criteria is different, as their connection requirements are different to that of an alarm, especially that the criteria has undergone a massive change in Jan 2019, dropping both the Cat5 & Cat 6 systems and replacing them with the new Vehicle Tracking System (VTS) requirements.

 

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NickVanBitz - 2019-07-18 3:39 PM

 

aandncaravan - 2019-07-18 12:14 PM

 

For 50+ years the industry has worked on automated methods to ensure no habitation appliances, lights, etc. can run off the Starter battery so it has always been isolated when the Alternator stops. Why would builders now start wiring them into the Base Vehicle CANbus, that doesn't make sense?

 

If using the Leisure battery would be such a huge issue, why are there no problems when the Leisure battery is connected to the Base vehicle CANbus electrics system to charge it?

 

 

Sorry Nick, you are doing a good job to defend the way you do it, but starting off saying it is a Thatcham essential requirement and then moving on to ECU controlled Alternators has no bearing on an Alarms power source.

 

 

Firstly Where on earth did ECU controlled alternators come from??? At no point did I single out a component on a vehicle!!

Secondly the chassis and habitation electrics are controlled by modulation - fact! Gone are the days when you can simply supply power to an indicator circuit without it throwing up a fault on the vehicle, or worse it just doesn't power the lights in which you want to control when the alarm is armed and disarmed, or in the builder's case tap into the lighting circuit to make lights work that aren't original to the chassis. This is also verified when fitting towing electrics to cars, as most if not all cases you need a specific harness and module, or if you're extremely lucky a universal Can-Reader just to make the lighting circuit work on the trailer or caravan your towing.

 

Thirdly I don't need a history lesson on the concept of different 12v sources on a motorcaravan. There isn't an easy fix when it comes to separating engine and leisure circuits any more, without charging issues through re-gen, making circuits work etc etc. Ask anyone building a camper using either the very latest Mercedes/VW T6/Ford Chassis and they will tell you that 12v fridges stop working and leisure batteries do not get charged correctly all because of how the Euro6/Re-gen systems work. Hymer on the very latest Mercedes have had to install a DC-DC charger just to get the leisure batteries charged, CBE uses a D+ signal with a voltage sense relay to get the engine and leisure batteries in parallel then holds the relay on to keep power transfer between engine and leisure as the relay would kick out during re-gen, the downside is the leisure battery is only charged as good as the engine battery, no good if the engine battery is a AGM 75ah and you have 2x 100ah lead acids.

 

Connectivity as an alarm product has to work in harmony with the Chassis system to control external lights when arming and disarming, control central locking when arming/disarming (although not recommended by us, or used as such) and if you are a member of the TRI scheme, this information should be available to you.

I recommend that the next time you have an opportunity to look at a 2019 Autosleeper Broadway for example, clamber underneath the back of the motorhome and take a look at the lengths the manufacturer has had to go to just to stop warning lights coming on the dash. Also any of the New MCT or MCI models from Hymer, with factory Mercedes modules to control the lighting on the Hymer body.

 

Tracking criteria is different, as their connection requirements are different to that of an alarm, especially that the criteria has undergone a massive change in Jan 2019, dropping both the Cat5 & Cat 6 systems and replacing them with the new Vehicle Tracking System (VTS) requirements.

 

 

I think we have an issue with the definition of habitation electrics?

The habitation electrics, like the CBE system you pick out, control all of the appliances, lights, tv, water pump, etc in a motorhome.

Hymer and those that use the Nordelettronica systems additionally use 'add on' modules to control the running lights, but everyone we have seen uses the habitation battery to run these lights.

 

The Base vehicle is not connected to these Habitation area Power Controllers except for the sole purpose of charging the habitation battery, etc. and a trigger to show the Alternator has started spinning so charging can take place.

There is NO other connection between the two electrical systems.

 

While Schaudt introduced their own SDT bus system to control the habitation devices, like lights, etc. it is not connected to the vehicle CANbus.

In anycase this system was used on very few vehicles imported into the UK.

 

The systems from Nordelettronica, Schaudt, BCA, Sargent, Arsilicii, CBE, etc. all use basic, non CANbus compatible, basic 12v DC.

 

So when you say, "Secondly the chassis and habitation electrics are controlled by modulation - fact!", it is wrong.

 

Everybody knows that CANbus systems need very careful treatment and often special components to connect to it and there are lots of tools/devices available so don't know why the Autosleeper you refer to was such a big deal.

 

Because the only connection between the two systems is via a Split Charge relay (or equivalent) and an Alternator running trigger, which you refer to as D+ no other CANbus connections need occur.

 

The adoption of Brake Energy recovery/Stop/Start by a minority of motorhomes in early 2018 meant that the Alternator became controlled by the Vehicle ECU and the 'Alternator spinning' trigger required new components to interface to the vehicle ECU. These are the items you talk about.

If there are any others perhaps you could specify exactly what they are?

 

There have been issues for some Habitation Area Power Controller manufacturers in building suitable devices to overcome the problem.

Schaudt foresaw the coming issues and were ahead of the game introducing an purpose made Alternator Charge Booster at the end of 2017.

 

I fully understand that an Alarm immobiliser has to have it's switched outputs connected to the CANbus of a vehicle to isolate the ignition, etc and that can be done exactly as it is always is, but the primary power source for the Alarm module itself can have it's power source from anywhere. It doesn't need to be a CANbus style supply.

 

Trackers are different in that they don't operate relays/switches in the Canbus system, but they still need a secure power source. Thatcham don't specify the Starter battery should be used yet we have not seen a single professionally installed one that uses the Habitation Power Controller supplied output to run from the habitation battery.

 

I guess Installers like to do it their way.

 

 

You write, "the leisure battery is only charged as good as the engine battery, no good if the engine battery is a AGM 75ah and you have 2x 100ah lead acids", which is a completely false statement and makes me wonder.

If you supply 3 batteries with an Alternator 14.4v charge, they will draw power from the Alternator as required. It isn't the Alternator that 'force charges' the battery, the battery will take what it requires. Each battery will reduce the draw it takes as it charges up.

 

How else do 2 x 100Ah batteries in a vehicle charge up on a Alternator with a 90Ah Starter battery?

 

 

I think lots of people on here will testify their 2 x 110Ah batteries charge very well indeed, despite the average OEM Starter battery being only 90Ah.

 

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Ok, thus not to get too OFF TOPIC here (which I'm equally responsible of and we seem to be, as the OP was referring to alarms and not the very latest electronics that are being used in 2019 M/Homes as an example), I'm going to make this short seeing as I believed and advised that I am being trolled somewhat.

 

It seems that you are trying to educate me in how habitation electrics work, it's fine I know how they work, nor need educating about them. Everything that you have described about certain systems is correct and in some cases current, which I am not disputing. We can agree to disagree about leisure battery charging, BUT that's going off topic (Again!!!).

 

May I ask when was the last time you worked on the very latest 2019 Mercedes Sprinter Chassis (again just an example, don't want you thinking I'm picking on Mercedes) and fitted a Thatcham Cat 1 alarm designed by you (as a designer/manufacturer), with remote immobilisation and a monitored tracking system? When you are presented with "first of a kind" situation (which was in fact late 2018 on a self-build) such as a vehicle that has a very complex DC/Can-Bus network, things have to be done in a way so that various systems do not conflict with each other, such as the "Habitation Mode" (Not Habitation as in the Motorhome Part - better get that cleared up quick) and "Standby Mode" adopted on the new Sprinters electrics. Like everything that is rolling out from the manufacturers, things aren't as easy to just slap something in, take power from there etc, as vehicle's systems are far more complexed than they have ever been before and the upmost care has to be taken.

 

Our Strikeback alarms are Thatcham evaluated and cannot be fitted by anyone but us (we ceased to have fitting centres), so to describe us as just "fitters" isn't the case. We design and install our product, so we are far from just "installers", which I will say that's a personal pop at me/us, seeing as most of your posting seems to suggest.

 

I don't agree with the statement about the lack of modular use and also the lack of use of VE-Bus, DC and Can-Bus being used in motorcaravans, I have one in the shop as we speak. This van is covered in independent "Modules" that are responsible for various equipment (Habitation equipment including the Factory fitted Lithium, control "Modules" for various systems and a mix of DC, Can-Bus and Ve-Bus driven systems that are responsible for various habitation and chassis electrics).

 

I was merely quoting Autosleeper as an example of the lengths builders have gone to make systems work. It was neither a direct attack on them or an insult to the builder, why did you make it sound like I was attacking them so??!!

 

I'm not prepared to continue to discuss Battery charging methods and concepts, as again it's going "OFF TOPIC", but will happily engage in conversation should such a post come up.

 

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