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Motorhome Engine Battery
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userweldted
Posted: 5 January 2019 10:15 AM
Subject: RE: Motorhome Engine Battery
 
Has lots to offer

Posts: 424
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Hi we have an Elddis Aspire 255 (2012) just worth checking when on mains hook up on our control panel top right hand side it shows the two batteries linked together when on mains hook up. This circuit is protected by a 3 amp fuse. If this fails nothing else seems to be affected. Pc320 Ecb control panel.
You van immobiliser circuit is powered from the engine battery and will pull the starter battery down over 2/3 weeks.
userpotus4388
Posted: 5 January 2019 11:14 AM
Subject: RE: Motorhome Engine Battery
 
Pops in from time to time

Posts: 92
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Location: Somerset /Elddis Majestic 120 (2019))


Monique, in response to your comments I have to say that as a relative newcomer to motorhoming, I have found this forum very helpful, I have learnt lot from fellow members, whom, I have found,are always ready to help with their knowledge and experience. It is certainly not boring!
userMicky Salty
Posted: 5 January 2019 4:45 PM
Subject: RE: Motorhome Engine Battery
 
Having a look around

Posts: 23

Location: 2017 Peugeot Elddis Majestic


I've been told by both the dealer and Elddis that when I'm hooked up it only charges the leisure battery and will not charge the engine battery which is a bit of a pain.
userDeffheads
Posted: 5 January 2019 5:24 PM
Subject: RE: Motorhome Engine Battery
 
Pops in from time to time

Posts: 112
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Location: Storrington West Sussex and Europe- Dethleffs 7870


Hi, do leave the van in storage or at home? If at home connect to mains and your problem will be solved , if in storage facility, I would suggest some sort of solar power to keep the engine battery good, or go the whole hog and fit a good output panel on the roof that will keep both engine and habitation battery in good order.
userMicky Salty
Posted: 5 January 2019 6:31 PM
Subject: RE: Motorhome Engine Battery
 
Having a look around

Posts: 23

Location: 2017 Peugeot Elddis Majestic


Van is kept at home but I'm told the hook up will not charge the engine battery on a Elddis ?
userbuddy
Posted: 5 January 2019 8:15 PM
Subject: RE: Motorhome Engine Battery
 
Just joined

Posts: 6



The problem could, I think, be solved with the fitting of a battery to battery charging link,they are not expensive and should be able to be fitted by a motorhome service centre or perhaps a mobile motorhome service person. These units allow charging power to be diverted to another battery when the one being charged is full.
Vanbitz battery master works just like this. item 382551218919 on ebay shows one and describes its method of working.

Edited by buddy 2019-01-05 8:27 PM
userMicky Salty
Posted: 5 January 2019 9:11 PM
Subject: RE: Motorhome Engine Battery
 
Having a look around

Posts: 23

Location: 2017 Peugeot Elddis Majestic


Thanks very much, I will take a look.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 6 January 2019 9:03 AM
Subject: RE: Motorhome Engine Battery
 


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Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Micky

There has been a fair amount of past talk on this forum about Elddis motorhomes lacking the capability for the vehicle’s starter-battery to be charged by the motorhome’s on-board battery-charger when the motorhome is connected to a 230V mains power-supply. Samples of earlier discussions can be read here

https://tinyurl.com/y7zjlm55

It would appear from those comments that the electrical system of some (older?) Elddis motorhomes allows both the starter and leisure battery to be charged by the motorhome’s on-board battery-charger, but that many (newer?) Elddis models do not have that capability. As your dealer has told you that only the leisure-battery of your 2017 Elddis receives charge when on 230V electric hook-up (EHU), there’s no particular reason to doubt that statement.

(It’s sometimes practicable to detect from a motorhome’s control-panel readouts whether or not the starter-battery gets charged. If that’s not possible It should still be a relatively simple to decide what the situation is by using a multimeter to take voltage readings of both batteries, then connecting the motorhome to an EHU and re-taking the readings to establish if the voltage of the starter-battery rises as well as the voltage of the leisure-battery.)

Presumably, as you have now purchased a ’trickle charger’, when your Elddis motorhome is standing idle a 230V mains power-supply will be near enough to it to allow the charger to be connected to the starter-battery. Realistically, if no convenient 230V mains power-supply were available, charging the starter-battery would require that the motorhome be driven regularly to allow the vehicle’s alternator to charge the battery. Alternative ploys involve use of solar panels and/or a ‘battery master’ type of device - mentioned above by buddy and discussed here -

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Van-Bitz-or-Sterling-battery-master-/25151/

When a 230V mains power-supply is available, the simplest/cheapest approach is likely to be Clive Mott-Gotobed’s ‘bridging fuse’ suggestion (described on following link)

http://www.motts.org/BRIDGING%20FUSE.htm

where a cable with a 10A fuse connects the positive terminals of the starter and leisure batteries while the motorhome is standing idle. Obviously this method demands that a cable be installed to connect the two batteries, but that is equally true if a ‘battery master’ device were to be fitted.

Received wisdom on this forum is that it’s best to NOT have a motorhome’s battery-charger operating continuously if the vehicle is to be standing idle for weeks/months, with occasional charging (say fortnightly for 24 hours) being preferable.

Unless you connect the leisure-battery and starter-battery together (‘battery master’ or ‘bridging -fuse’) so that your motorhome’s on-board charger can charge the starter-battery, you’ll need to connect your trickle-charger to the starter-battery that’s buried under a cover in the cab’s passenger footwell - so you’ll need to consider how best to do that (and where to put the charger).

Did the Peugeot agent suggest why your Boxer’s original starter-battery failed? This can just happen, but it’s a mite concerning that the battery was “well drained” as (assuming that the battery’s electrolyte-level was correct when you bought the vehicle) the electrolyte loss since 2017 has been unusually large.
userMicky Salty
Posted: 6 January 2019 12:08 PM
Subject: RE: Motorhome Engine Battery
 
Having a look around

Posts: 23

Location: 2017 Peugeot Elddis Majestic


Thank you for your help.
I have had the van tested for any unusual drain and none can be found.
As I have now had a new battery fitted by the dealer should the problem happen again then they will have to do something about it under the warranty.
With regard to the trickle charger it is relatively easy to get to the jump points under the bonnet and the battery in the footwell.
I do try and use the vehicle as often as I can and I do take it for a drive if I'm not using it for a period.
userPhilnShaz
Posted: 16 January 2019 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: Motorhome Engine Battery
 
Just joined

Posts: 2

Location: W. Yorkshire. Elddis Aramis LL


I have a 2017 Elddis Aramis, on a Peugeot Boxer chassis, which is a dealer version of the Autoquest 196. The Elddis manual states "Your Thatcham alarm system is powered by the leisure battery." but mine isn't.
I had the starter battery go flat after a 4 week period and the alarm and door remote would not work until I jumped my car battery onto the motorhome. I keep the vehicle at a storage facility so had to drive it home to charge the battery. That was only seven months after I bought it new. It has been OK since, until now. It has gone flat after being left for 4 weeks over Christmas. I thought it would be OK for 4 weeks this time as I have connected it to the second output of the solar panel control unit, but there is obviously a battery drain which exceeds the solar panel output at this time of year.
I asked the dealer where I bought it and he was surprised that Elddis would power the alarm from the leisure battery. And he should know - you'd think!!

Phil.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 16 January 2019 6:24 PM
Subject: RE: Motorhome Engine Battery
 


5000500050001000100100100252525
Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Elddis motorhome alarms were discussed in this 2015 forum thread.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Elddis-Autoquest-Vehicle-Alarm-Malfunction/38196/

The following statement there

"The alarm has a motion sensor and door/bonnet sensors”

suggests that the the standard Peugeot Boxer cab-door courtesy-light switches are exploited as ‘sensors', which also suggests that the starter-battery powers the alarm system.
useraandncaravan
Posted: 16 January 2019 9:58 PM
Subject: RE: Motorhome Engine Battery
 
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Posts: 2177
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Location: Conwy, North Wales


PhilnShaz - 2019-01-16 4:11 PM

I have a 2017 Elddis Aramis, on a Peugeot Boxer chassis, which is a dealer version of the Autoquest 196. The Elddis manual states "Your Thatcham alarm system is powered by the leisure battery." but mine isn't.
I had the starter battery go flat after a 4 week period and the alarm and door remote would not work until I jumped my car battery onto the motorhome. I keep the vehicle at a storage facility so had to drive it home to charge the battery. That was only seven months after I bought it new. It has been OK since, until now. It has gone flat after being left for 4 weeks over Christmas. I thought it would be OK for 4 weeks this time as I have connected it to the second output of the solar panel control unit, but there is obviously a battery drain which exceeds the solar panel output at this time of year.
I asked the dealer where I bought it and he was surprised that Elddis would power the alarm from the leisure battery. And he should know - you'd think!!

Phil.


Phil, After market alarms/Tracker's draining Starter batteries has been an issue for a long time as the 'Car' alarm installers generally know nothing about Motorhome electrics.

Obviosly wiring an alarm from a Leisure battery bank that is usually double the size of the Starter battery is going to stay charged for twice as long and not disable the vehicle when it does run flat.


The continental motorhome manufacturers cottoned on to this years ago and provided 'permanent' live supplies, even when the control panel was turned 'off'.
But they didn't label them for 'security' reasons.

Recently, in the last year or so, the Uk market also realised the issue and Sargent started providing the same provision beginning with their EC700 (I think?).
Because of the 'covert' nature of the Continental methodology which was kept a bit too secret as the info didn't get outside the Dealers, and the Dealers nearly always subcontracted the work to Car alarm installers,

Sargent label theirs up and document it in the manual, but Dealers still go on subcontracting the work to 'specialist' Alarm installers who go on wiring it from the Starter battery which also has the least priority Solar Charge in most UK installations.

In most Sargent installs the Solar regulator has a user definable split of power between the Starter battery and the habitation area battery. This obviously needs to be set to 95%/5% between Leisure/Starter battery in Summer and 10/90% Starter/Leisure battery in Winter when the Leisure battery is rarely used

Clearly wiring the Alarm from the habitation area battery would mean the Solar regulator doesn't need alteration between seasons.


If the manual says it is wired from the habitation battery and it isn't, that is a warranty issue which I urge you to pursue.
Otherwise it might be a real pain and cost you dear over the life of the van due to damaged electrics from flat batteries, jump start issues, failed chargers trying to recover the batteries RAC callouts, etc.

Even if it doesn't have a Sargent EC700 installed, common sense says it should be wired from the Leisure battery via the Sargent unit that is installed



Edited by aandncaravan 2019-01-16 10:21 PM
userPhilnShaz
Posted: 17 January 2019 12:28 PM
Subject: RE: Motorhome Engine Battery
 
Just joined

Posts: 2

Location: W. Yorkshire. Elddis Aramis LL


aandncaravan - 2019-01-16 9:58 PM
Phil, After market alarms/Tracker's draining Starter batteries has been an issue for a long time as the 'Car' alarm installers generally know nothing about Motorhome electrics.

Obviosly wiring an alarm from a Leisure battery bank that is usually double the size of the Starter battery is going to stay charged for twice as long and not disable the vehicle when it does run flat.

The continental motorhome manufacturers cottoned on to this years ago and provided 'permanent' live supplies, even when the control panel was turned 'off'.
But they didn't label them for 'security' reasons.

Recently, in the last year or so, the Uk market also realised the issue and Sargent started providing the same provision beginning with their EC700 (I think?).
Because of the 'covert' nature of the Continental methodology which was kept a bit too secret as the info didn't get outside the Dealers, and the Dealers nearly always subcontracted the work to Car alarm installers,

Sargent label theirs up and document it in the manual, but Dealers still go on subcontracting the work to 'specialist' Alarm installers who go on wiring it from the Starter battery which also has the least priority Solar Charge in most UK installations.

In most Sargent installs the Solar regulator has a user definable split of power between the Starter battery and the habitation area battery. This obviously needs to be set to 95%/5% between Leisure/Starter battery in Summer and 10/90% Starter/Leisure battery in Winter when the Leisure battery is rarely used

Clearly wiring the Alarm from the habitation area battery would mean the Solar regulator doesn't need alteration between seasons.


If the manual says it is wired from the habitation battery and it isn't, that is a warranty issue which I urge you to pursue.
Otherwise it might be a real pain and cost you dear over the life of the van due to damaged electrics from flat batteries, jump start issues, failed chargers trying to recover the batteries RAC callouts, etc.

Even if it doesn't have a Sargent EC700 installed, common sense says it should be wired from the Leisure battery via the Sargent unit that is installed



Hi, thanks for the info.
My solar panel controller is a Truma SDC 10 and I have changed the setting to 80/20% where the 80% is to the vehicle battery. This obviously is not enough to handle the battery drain so I will just have to use the vehicle more often to keep the starter battery fully charged.

Phil.
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