Motorhome Travel Seats

[Guest Mel E]

There have been several posts recently about what constitutes a travel seat. One poor buyer bought a m'home with 4 berths but nowhere for the two offspring to travel safely. The EU law is about to change so that travel seats must be belted. Until then (and for all m'homes pre-dating the law) here are my suggestions. As a measure, remember that an average 8-year-old takes on the weight of a baby elephant in a crash at only 30 mph. 1. You may safely carry two adults on the front, 3-point belted cab seats. BUT, if you've fitted seat swivels, they ought to have been crash tested; if not, all bets are off. 2. Any other FORWARD-FACING SEATS with three-point belts fitted to steel frames anchored to the structure (chassis or original floor) and proper headrests are also OK. 3. Rear facing seats should have at least lap belts. But they MUST HAVE steel-reinforced seat backs and head rests (else you'll go straight out thru the front when the 'van stops in a crash) which makes it fairly straightforward to add three point belts to minimise whiplash in a crash. 4. SIDEWAYS FACING SEATS are completely unsuitable for use during travel. Seat belts make them even more dangerous, lap belts causing potentially serious internal injuries in a front crash and 3-point belts potentially taking your head off at the neck! If you have, like we used to, a 7-berth motorhome with 4 safely belted travel seats, any excess sleepers travel by car.

[Guest Brian Kirby]

Obvious, I know, but since people do seem to have been rather badly caught by (presumably) inaccurate assurances given by sellers, those rear facing belted seats need the same steel framed seat construction as the forward facing seats, with the same reinforced seatbelt anchorages, to which should be added the reinforced backs and head restraints. In fact, I would go further and say that the reinforced backs and head restraints should really be common to both the rear and the forward facing seats. However, when the new legislation does come into force, I suspect that fully reinforced head restraints, seat backs and bases will become the norm since, once developed, they will become the converter's safest and most readily available option. Good thing too, and high time! Now, the next step is to get the 'van structures reinforced a bit so that they have at least some resistance to rollover, side, and rear impact. It's been done for buses and coaches, which are much bigger and heavier hollow tobes. Converters tend not to have too many variations on the basic bodyshell, it being more the internal layout and window placement that changes, so developing a hooped cage structure shouldn't bee too complex, costly or invasive. They might even come to be seen as an aid to construction if mounted to the chassis first, ensuring accuracy of alignment and fit of all following components. Well, one can dream! Brian

[Guest Gillian]

I wonder what the weight penalty will be for the added measures. In some cases I suspect it could be significant.

[Guest Mel E]

Or buy a Le Voyageur, Brian which has a metal frame.

[Guest Brian Kirby]

True. Just two problems: a) the cost and b) I don't think their metal frames are necessarily up to it. Re weight, I don't think a properly designed frame need add that much weight and, personally, I'd be willing to loose a bit of payload in favour of a bit better protection for passengers. Most motorhomes are build in much the same way as trailer caravans. It doesn't matter too much if a trailer caravan disintegrates in an accident. I know its distressing for those involved, but no one should be on the inside to get hurt. Motorhomes, on the other hand, are intended (mostly) to carry passengers and really ought to be a bit stronger. There's little point to a good strong, three point belted seat if all it has restrained is a corpse! Regards Brian

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

Le Voyageur (as Mel says) builds its A-Class vehicles using a "Duralinox" aluminium-alloy skeleton. Coachbuilt bodywork based on a steel tube framework has been (and may well still be) the signature construction technique used by Eriba. A few years back in the UK, Manhattan (best known for their "Tardis" panel-van-with slide-out model) made a large coachbuilt design advertised specifically for the safety offered by roll-protection 'hoops' incorporated into the bodywork. But very few must have been sold as Manhattan soon ceased motorhome production. In fact, if a motorhome buyer envisages the likelihood of somersaulting down a precipice, a vehicle with a heavy-duty monocoque GRP body could well provide the best chance of everyone walking (or at least crawling!) away from the accident.

[Guest Brian Kirby]

Derek I think the difference for LeVoyageur and Eriba is that their metal frames are really a substitute for a wood frame, rather than being built as a rollover and impact protective hoop. I'm sure that under most conditions these frames would be beneficial, but not having been designed to protect, I suspect that they may well be ripped in places to leave injurious projections inside the van to spear the flailing unfortunates inside. I once heard of a couple who tipped one of the older B class Hymers off the road and down quite a substantial bank, and walked away unscathed. I was told about that incident by a motorhomer who had been so impressed with the way the Hymer had performed, he'd kept his similar model in lieu of changing it for a more recent one, because he reckoned the new ones weren't built in the same way! I'm not expert, but it does seem strange that motorhomes can be built without, seemingly, any proper research into how they perform in an accident. I do get the impression that, with ever greater numbers on the roads and so, presumably, greater numbers involved in accidents, the various authorities are becoming more alert to their fragility. We'll see! Brian

[Guest Mel E]

Of course, those of us with panel van conversions do have vehicles that behave somewhat better than most motorhomes in a roll-over. Moral: get a panel van conversion!

[Guest Brian Kirby]

I know! I agree! I think they'd also be streets better in almost any kind of collision, and (mostly) have proper seat belt anchorages to boot. Another other advantage is that all the central locking etc links to all the doors, and the locks are generally that bit better than coachbuilt locks. Finally they're that bit more compact and less conspicuous as motorhomes We just couldn't find one that was quite big enough for what we wanted and I got cold feet at the thought of getting a one off conversion on the big Iveco Daily. They're also, generally, more expensive. Annoying, isn't it! Brian

[Guest Mel E]

More expensive than what, Brian? Read June & July MMM for full details of mine, but for mid-£30Ks or so, I got, to my own design: - a brand new LWB Renault Master with all the extras (aircon, alarm system, cruise control, etc) except auto box in beautiful metallic dark silver - twin rear bunks each 6' or 6'2" x a generous 2'5"; the top moves up to provide storage when travelling and room for 2 - 3 bikes on the bottom one (cushions moved to the top). Both bunks come out in a few simple moves to provide a large van space at the back - a bathroom with proper shower (+loo and w/basin) - a proper kitchen with 3xhob, grill and oven, slide-out storage and usable work surface - a decent wardrobe, a 90litre fridge/freezer, gas heating and hot water, refillable gas tank. - a dinette for two that expands to seat four, becomes a settee, wide single bed or full 6'3" x 4'6" double bed. - swivel cab seats with island table between. I've used imperial measurements for beds just incase you are not metricated yet! Tell me where you can get a motorhome at this price with all that, that cruises happily at 75mph (legal in France, etc - doing 27 mpg) or 65mph for 30.5 mpg?

[Guest Brian Kirby]

Mel Having quickly scrabbled through June/July 2005, thinking I'd missed it, I realised it is yet to come! I look forward to it and shall read it with great interest. It has always seemed to me that the "off the shelf" van conversions compare unfavourably with "off the shelf" coachbuilts for value. At first, it seemed illogical that the one had to build an entire body, that the other started with, but notwithstanding, achieved a finished product at a slightly lower price. I then realised how much easier the coachbuilt is to build, and how that economy is achieved. As novices, it would have been difficult to design and specify our exact requirements for a bespoke motorhome. I think we were probably right, therefore, to buy off the shelf. Even then, just selecting what we got took long enough! However, we are pleased with it and generally it suits us well. It has just the one bed, 6' 3" long x 4' 4" wide, slatted base, 6" mattress. It has a 3 burner hob, no grill, no oven: but that suits us. It has washroom, toilet etc. It has 4 seat dinette, using swivel cab seats. It has good wardrobe and a lot of cupboard space. Bought in France for just over £30,000. It'll (apparently) do over 90 MPH (illegal, even in France!) and gives about 25 MPG. Not too bad, then. (I've used imperial units as well, but I am fully metricated!) However, given a few more season's use I think we'll know better where we want to go. Then, we may well follow your lead and get one made to our preferences. There's all those interesting new vans just around the corner, as well! Regards Brian