Andy_C Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Has any member bought a new motorhome that was first registered from 1st August 2013 with a gross weight over 3500kg and where the CO2 emissions are included on the V5C? If so I'd be very interested to know what VED (road tax) class it was placed in. I'm having a rather extended discussion with DVLA about motorhome VED rates and am being given conflicting information! I know (I think!) the situation post September 1st 2019 but am interested in what was happening between 1st Aug 2013 and then. Andy Clarke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 This 2016 forum thread covered that scenario in some depth https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Motorhome-licensing-road-tax/40754/ In fact - for motorhomes with a gross weight that EXCEEDS 3500kg - the situation VED-wise will be no different post 1 September 2019 to what it has been historically. Post 1 September 2019, even if a new motorhome’s ‘final stage’ Certificate of Conformity carries a CO2 figure, if the vehicle’s gross weight exceeds 3500kg it will be assigned to Tax Class 10 (Private HGV) that currently costs £165 annually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive_Adams Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Can confirm, taxed my motorhome end of June this year, it’s 3850 kg Private HGV, 12 months tax £165 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocs Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Ditto. 4250Kg, Taxed September 2016 Private HGV £165 per year. But no CO2 figure on V5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Hopefully collecting our brand new Burstner Iexo 736 tomorrow, it's on the Fiat heavy chassis 4000 kg. £165 road tax. No extra taxes. Euro 6, 2.3 first reg 01/09/2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 The V5C document plays no active role when a motorcaravan is first UK-registered by the DVLA. The registration procedure will have been completed when the V5C is produced - the document is an ‘effect’ of the registration procedure, but it is not a ‘cause’. I have attached below a copy of the joint DVLA/NCC press release that was issued in 2013. This says From 1st August 2013 a change was introduced for the licensing of all vehicles type approved within the M1SP category and this includes motorhomes/motorcaravans It will be seen that no mention is made that the ‘changes’ will apply only to motorhomes/motorcaravans with a gross weight NOT EXCEEDING 3500kg, but the weight-factor is critical as the UK’s vehicle taxation classes (TC 48. 49 and 59) that were effective from March 2001 and are based on a vehicle’s CO2 emissions and fuel type (as explained in the DVLA document on this link) https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/816540/v355x1-notes-about-tax-classes.pdf are all applicable to a "Passenger vehicle in the M1* category weighing not more than 3,500kg revenue weight”. Much of the information on a type-approved vehicle’s V5C document is transferred from that vehicle’s Certificate of Conformity (CoC). If a motorcaravan’s ‘final stage’ CoC carries a CO2 value and a gross weight value that exceeds 3500kg, it would not be ‘wrong’ for those values to appear on that motorcaravan’s V5C document. But what would be incorrect is for the CO2 value to be given precedence over the gross weight value and for that motorcaravan to be assigned to one of the CO2 emissions based tax classes that are appropriate only to vehicles having a gross weight not exceeding 3500kg. If a motorcaravan’s gross weight exceeds 3500kg, it should ALWAYS be licensed in Tax Class 10 (Private HGV) and it’s irrelevant whether or not its final-stage CoC and/or its V5C carries a CO2 value. Over the years it’s become plain that it’s not that rare for motorcaravans with a gross weight exceeding 3500kg to have been incorrectly licensed in Tax Class 11 (Private/light goods vehicle weighing no more than 3,500kgs) rather than Tax Class 10 (Private HGV vehicle weighing more than 3,500kg) and the instance I highlighted in my 1st posting here https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Motorhome-licensing-road-tax/40754/ suggests that, when the DVLA made the the 1st August 2013 rules revision, their software may have permitted a motorcaravan with a gross weight exceeding 3500kg to be licensed in one of the emissions-based tax classes merely because its CoC carried a CO2 value. And, if this happened once, it could have happened several times... An immediate impact of the 1st August 2013 rule revision was that new VW “California”campers began to be (legitimately) licensed in the emissions-based tax classes instead of Tax Class 11 where they had been assigned to previously. But “California” models are the only motorcaravans I’m aware that one might expect to have a CO2 value on their final stage CO2. Other type approved motorcaravans have normally not had a CO2 value on their CoC and, consequently, at first UK registration, have been correctly assigned to TC 11 or TC 10 based on their gross weight. Changes mandating that a CO2 value must in future be shown on the CoC of all road vehicles including motorcaravans are mentioned on this link https://www.spinney.co.uk/about/news/tax-increase?fbclid=IwAR2U2l0GmpCbA8Sbo4xmPk2bvcHt76Uxp1-C00xH2br5eWeFL9EUqqH6TOk It will be noted that the final bullet-point advises "If your motorhome is over 3,500kg no impact as these will still be registered as a heavy goods vehicle at £165” So it now seems to be understood that (UK road-tax-wise) vehicle gross takes precedence over any CO2 value on the CoC.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_C Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 Thanks all for the replies so far - will be interesting to see if anyone has an over 3500kg motorhome registered since 1st August 2013 that does have the CO2 figure on the V5C. Derek, thanks - I was aware of the published info - however DVLA are telling me now that any M1SP motorhome over 3500kg first registered from 1st August 2013 with CO2 emissions recorded on the final stage CoC will have been placed in an emissions based tax class. This contradicts (as far as I can see) the published info, and also their reply to a previous query I sent to them in 2017 when they also stated that motorhomes over 3500kg would not be placed in emissions related tax class even if the CO2 figure was present on the final stage CoC - they are now telling me that the information they provided then was incorrect! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 It may indeed be true that, since 1 August 2013, the DVLA has been assigning all over-3500kg motorhomes to the CO2-based emissions tax classes if there’s a CO2 value on the motorhome’s final-stage CoC - but that nevertheless conflicts with the DVLA’s own documentation that clearly states that the emissions tax classes have a 3500kg weight threshold. As you’ll gather from my postings, it took two ‘goes’ before the DVLA directed my enquiry to specialist staff who understood what I was talking about and agreed with the argument I was making. As few motorhomes have had a CO2 value on their final stage CoC and, if they have had, it’s more likely than not that the vehicle’s gross weight has not exceeded 3500kg, I doubt you’ll find a forum-member who has personally experienced the situation you’ve described. The latest advice the DVLA has given you is plainly wrong - I suggest you continue to pester the DVLA until they confirm what the correct procedure should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisD Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 Interesting. My motorhome registered april 2017 has a gross weight of 3500kg and a co value of 0.242 g/kwh. It has been classed as private/light goods and we pay a whopping £145.75 for 6 months. Surely that can't be right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_C Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 ChrisD - 2019-09-17 11:34 AM Interesting. My motorhome registered april 2017 has a gross weight of 3500kg and a co value of 0.242 g/kwh. It has been classed as private/light goods and we pay a whopping £145.75 for 6 months. Surely that can't be right? Assuming you mean 0.242 g/km, no, it doesn't seem right. I think it should be in the Diesel Car class for VED - £79.75 for 6 months unless the list price was more than £40,000 when it's £255.75 for 6 months for 5 years after the year of 1st registration. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_C Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 Derek Uzzell - 2019-09-17 11:21 AM The latest advice the DVLA has given you is plainly wrong - I suggest you continue to pester the DVLA until they confirm what the correct procedure should be. I am! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 ChrisD - 2019-09-17 11:34 AM Interesting. My motorhome registered april 2017 has a gross weight of 3500kg and a co value of 0.242 g/kwh. It has been classed as private/light goods and we pay a whopping £145.75 for 6 months. Surely that can't be right? The CO (carbon monoxide) emissions figure is unimportant where UK road tax is concerned - it’s the CO2 (carbon dioxide) emissions figure that matters. Presumably the 'final stage’ CoC produced by Roller-Team for your 2017 746 model motorhome carries the 0.242 g/kWh CO figure you’ve quoted (that datum seems perfectly credible to me) but the CoC will not carry a CO2 g/km figure as otherwise your motorhome would have been assigned to Tax Class 49 (diesel cars) rather than to Tax Class 11 (Private/light goods vehicle weighing no more than 3,500kgs). As you say, the current Tax Class 11 6-months road tax charge is £145.75 (or £265 for 12-months). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisD Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 thanks guys. replies greatly appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 Chris D Regarding your earlier comment about currently paying "a whopping £145.75 for 6 months” (£265 for 12-months), the following may be of interest. As if your Roller Team motorhome is registered in Tax Class 11 (Private/light goods) it can be assumed that its gross weight does not exceed 3500kg. If the motohome’s final-stage Certificate of Conformity had carried a CO2 emissions value the vehicle would have been assigned to Tax Class 48 and the CO2 value would probably have been in the range 171-190 g/km. On that basis, if the motorhome had been first registered in April 2017, the cost of the first licensing year would have been £800 and £140 per year subsequently. HOWEVER, if the retail price of your motorhome in 2017 exceeded £40,000 (which seems quite likely) there would have been an additional charge of £310 and this would apply for 5 years. So the cost would then have been £1110 (£800 + £310) at first registration in 2017 and £450 from 2018 through 2021, before reverting to £140 from April 2022. So maybe £265 per year ain’t so bad... (If you’d bought an over-3500kg motorhome in 2017, you’d only have been paying £165 for 12 months (£90.75 for 6 months) as the Tax Class 10 rate has been static for some while and there’s no indication that it will increase soon.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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