Munich Lucca avoiding (almost) Austria

[slowdriver]

Some navigational advice please.

 

On around Tuesday 12th, or Weds 13th Oct, I should be leaving Augsburg DE or thereabouts and heading south towards Lucca in Italy.

 

I appear to have two choices

 

My Sat Nav (Co-Pilot) offers two routes. The first is straight across Austria, - Innsbruck then Brenner and onto Bolzano and then on south. Google Confirms.

 

But in a 4 ton van I then need a GoBox and all the faff that entails.

Also since Munich to Lucca is around 8 hrs without stops I won’t be doing it in a day, thank you, and therefore will need to stop somewhere.

Stops, either StellPlatz or campsites, about 4 hrs into that route are not that plentiful on the Austrian side (37€ campsite) or in Northern Italy.

 

My Sat Nav (Co-Pilot) also offers a second route - longer, via Switzerland (8hr 43m). This requires using the Via App to cross Switzerland but apparently I can do this in a 4 ton van for either 25 € or 3.5€ (it’s not as clear as it should be). I already have the App with the necessary 10 day-pass credits on it.

The process seems a lot simpler than the Austrian Go Box for a one way trip.

[My return will be via Piemonte and Frejus and up the Rhone valley]

Plus there is a pretty nice and free StellPlatz in Lugano, - a handy 4hr and 42 minutes into the trip.

 

The only fly in this ointment appears to be that this route, on the E43/A13, around the eastern end of Bodensee is effectively in Austria for about 15/20km.

 

Does anyone here know if you can make that 15/20km Austrian traverse trip without recourse to a Go box?

Has anyone done it.?

 

My van looks like any other Fiat Ducato camper-van . It happens to have to 4 ton heavy chassis.

 

Many Thx in advance

 

[mtravel]

From Augsburg/Munich you may drive southwards on the German A96t to Lindau (exit #2).

 

From the end of 2019 Austria decided to make the section from Horbranz (just after Lindau on the border with Germany) to Hohenems of their A14 exempt from vignette.

Already done twice on the way out and twice on the way back (under 3.5tons), I can testify that the vignette is no longer needed.

I assume that the exemption also applies to the Go-Box, check on the website https://www.asfinag.at/en/.

The important thing is to remember to go out in Hohenems, in case you continue the Austrian cameras are there, ready to photograph you.

 

From there, a couple of kilometers and you are in Switzerland on their A13 heading south (Coira-S. Bernardino tunnel-Bellinzona-Lugano-Italy).

 

Max

[mtravel]

If you want to stay on the safe side and skip the Austrian motorway a possible detour (approximately 40 minutes) could be:

 

Exit the German A96 at Lindau (exit #2, do not continue as you are almost in Austria).

You will find a roundabout, go straight, at the traffic lights turn left.

Continue straight towards Lochau (already Austria) and Bregenz.

Drive through the city ignoring all the blue signs that lead to the highway.

Continue through Hochst, at the traffic lights after the Shell petrol station turn left towards Sankt Margrethen, you will find the Swiss border.

Immediately after a traffic lights, turn left and you will see GREEN signs for the Swiss A13 motorway towards Chur/S. Bernardino.

 

Remember to fill the tank in Austria where diesel is cheaper than in Switzerland and Italy.

 

Max

[slowdriver]

Many thanks. This is extremely helpful.

I rather hoped that the tolls did not apply on that stretch. I have yet to confirm on ASFINAG but will do so later today, and a quick look on Gmaps confirms that your proposed by-pass of the autoroute entirely by following the lake through Bregentz and Hochst seems straight forward.

 

Since you evidently have expertise in this area I wonder if you have use the Via App (PSVA) app for paying for and using Swiss motorways. I have it, and have bought 10 days of tickets. Does it work?

Any gotcha's you might know of?

 

 

 

[mtravel]

I am Italian (hinterland of Milan) and when I go to Northern Europe I obviously pass through Switzerland.

I have a motorhome under 3.5tons and therefore I use the simple sticker so I don't know how to help you about the VIA App.

 

However site in English could be https://www.ezv.admin.ch/ezv/en/home/information-companies/transport--travel-documents--road-taxes/heavy-vehicle-charges--performance-related-and-lump-sum-/psva-for-foreign-vehicles/via.html

 

Tips if you go through the San Bernardino tunnel.

Pay attention to the speed limits, especially in the tunnels before the climb and in the Nufenen area, cameras switched on.

Certain fine at home, for exceeding a few km/h approximately 100CHF but it depends on how much you have exceeded the limit.

Going down you have 15 kilometers of quite steep descent, use the low gears.

 

Several times I spent the night in the Coldrerio service, six kilometers before Chiasso and the border with Italy and in the one before Bellinzona nord.

In the latter, however, a month ago works were in progress and I do not know if it is possible to do it now.

I don't think this is the case for you but if you pass through the Gotthard tunnel, I often slept in the service immediately after.

 

Max

[mtravel]

Once in Lucca, don't forget that in the Sacristy of the Cathedral of San Martino you can admire the funeral monument of Ilaria del Carretto, the work of Jacopo della Quercia and one of the artistic masterpieces of the 15th century.

 

Tuscany is of incomparable beauty, wealthy British and German have now bought the most beautiful farms on the hills of Chianti and Val d'Orcia (Unesco) which they have transformed into real estates.

 

Without forgetting beautiful small towns such as Volterra, San Gimignano, Monteriggioni, Pienza (Unesco), obviously Florence, Siena, Pisa, Arezzo the first two Unesco sites.

 

Max

[slowdriver]

Again, thank you so much for the detailed and very helpful information. I suspect I'll stay at the Area Sosta Camper - Lugano, assuming there is some space by the time I get there, and then spend a morning taking a look at Lugano - its over forty years since I last passed through !.- and then I was hitching.

 

https://www.google.ch/maps/place/Area+Sosta+Camper+-+Lugano/@46.0004067,8.9425497,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x47842d9a8121eedd:0xef66fd0f76b87c54!8m2!3d46.0004067!4d8.9447384

 

 

If not then the Coldrerio stop looks like a good fall back. Thx.

 

 

[mtravel]

Immediately after the Chiasso CH-I border there is a motorway exit towards Como.

Two kilometers away the stopover https://www.campercontact.com/en/italy/lombardy/como/53033/area-camper-como

 

The reviews speak of a full area but perhaps only because of the period of foreign tourists returning home.

In mid-October, that shouldn't be the case.

 

Another tip:

If you set a route from Chiasso to Lucca in Google Maps, it gives you three possible alternatives.

Avoid the one that passes through Genoa, which is narrow and crowdy, with many works in progress and the possibility of long queues.

Although with some climbs and some tunnels, the one that goes from Parma to La Spezia is better.

Or the longest (seventy more kilometers) that passes close to Bologna and Florence.

 

Max

 

p.s. On Italian motorways (green sign, not blue) at tolls gates the yellow sign Telepass lanes lead to automatic gates used by those having Telepass tag onboard.

Use blue gates accepting major credit cards (perhaps not Diner's and Amex).

Not always but white lanes are usually manned.

[Paul F]

Hi Everybody - first post on the forums despite reading for the last two years!

 

Thought I would share my experience as I travelled the exact same route only 6 weeks ago in my 5.5T van.

 

Travelling from bavarian Germany to the Swiss/Italian border, I consciously remained in Germany as long as possible and only used the A14 from Horbranz to Hohenems as I knew this was toll free for those under 3.5T using a Vignette. I hoped the same may extend to me.

 

I stopped for cheap(ish) fuel at Horbranz sevices and just to be on the safe side decided to enquire at the Go Box outlet if I needed one anyway. The very nice lady spoke much more English than I spoke German, and fully understood what I was asking when I pointed out the route I was taking on my phone, specifically telling her I would leave the motorway at Hohenems and cross into Switzerland.

 

She told me that I absolutely needed a Go Box if I was over 3.5T and proceeded to sort out all the necessary paperwork and payment.

 

Checking in to my account now, I can see that on that 20 minute journey I passed 7 cameras and clocked up tolls of EUR 9.55

 

Very glad I got the box now, as I am pretty sure I would have arrived home to a fine in the post if I had tried to squeeze through unnoticed!

[Brian Kirby]

Alternative, toll free, route. 480 miles, 9.5 hours driving a motorhome speeds.

 

South from Augsburg to Fussen and the A7. A7 south through the Grenztunnel and onto Austrian B179.

 

Follow B179 south over Fernpass to Nassereith,.where take B189 for Imst. From Imst take B171 to Landeck avoiding the A12 - to which you will repeatedly be directed!

 

At first roundabout in Landeck follow B171 right and across the Inn to second roundabout.

 

At second roundabout turn left from B171 - signposted "180 Fernpass (CH) (I)" along Innstrasse which turns left after approx 0.2 miles and leads up to a T junction.

 

At T junction turn right onto Malserstrasse signposted "B180 Reschenpass, Kaunertal, (CH) (I)" and follow this road (L76) up the Inn valley until it meets the end of the A12 Landecker Tunnel and then continues south as B180.

 

Stay on B180 south up the Reschenpass to the Italian border just north of Reschen / Resia, where it becomes the SS40, and then on down the SS40 past Sluderno towards Merano and Bolzano.

 

From Bolzano south via Trento, Verona, Mantua, Modena, and Bologna, to Florence and right to Lucca.

 

Campsites at Malles Venosta (Camping Mals) GPS N46.68410 E10.55007, Laces (Camping Laces, behind hotel) GPS N46.62219 E10.86365, Merano (Camping Meran, good site in town) GPS N46.66415 E11.15904, any of which should be about the right distance from Augsburg for your midway overnight stop. We have used all three and they were, when visited, fine with good facilities. However, all are between 1,000 and 3,000 feet up in the Alps, so might be a touch chilly in mid October. ;-)

 

I think all have heated facilities (we didn't visit late enough in the year to test this!). Would be wise to check availability and possibly to book in view of current circumstances.

 

Don't forget to check need for winter tyres/chains at this time of year in the mountains.

 

The Fern and Reschen passes are both "proper" two lane roads with easy gradients and few hairpins so you may find yourselves following 40 tonne trucks at times, but the truck drivers know the roads and generally don't hang around.

 

Keep an eye on the weather forecasts as we have met early snowfall around Bolzano in mid October.

 

Hope this helps.

[laimeduck]

Brian

 

I'll happily second that route - I've done it several times and as long as you tell the Satnag to avoid tolls and Motorways and then keep your eyes peeled, it is very straightforward.

Just to add, we stayed in one of two stellplatz in Fussen which appears to be open all year. One has a restaurant and bar attached, the other is just a carpark around a big warehouse attched to a Sports Studio. (we stayed here)

https://stellplatz-info.translate.goog/reisemobilstellplatz/f%C3%BCssen?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc

 

You can get a good reasonable meal with a stein or two at Beim Olivenbauer - Füssen, and Fussen itself is worth time to wander around for a few hours.

https://beim-olivenbauer.de/speisekarte-fuessen.html

 

Jeremy

[mtravel]

Brian Kirby - 2021-10-07 6:47 PM

 

Don't forget to check need for winter tyres/chains at this time of year in the mountains.

 

 

See for instance https://www.autobrennero.it/en/on-the-road/driving-regulations-and-advice-for-your-journey-/winter-tires/

It includes info on both countries.

Right now marked M+S (or MS) tyres are enough, 3PMSF (three peaks with snow flake) not yet compulsory.

 

But if you cross France, in some departments from November 1 2021 you will need 3PMSF tyres or chains on board.

 

Max

[slowdriver]

mtravel - 2021-10-08 8:25 AM

 

Brian Kirby - 2021-10-07 6:47 PM

 

Don't forget to check need for winter tyres/chains at this time of year in the mountains.

 

 

See for instance https://www.autobrennero.it/en/on-the-road/driving-regulations-and-advice-for-your-journey-/winter-tires/

It includes info on both countries.

Right now marked M+S (or MS) tyres are enough, 3PMSF (three peaks with snow flake) not yet compulsory.

 

But if you cross France, in some departments from November 1 2021 you will need 3PMSF tyres or chains on board.

 

Max

 

 

Thanks for the heads up on the tyres. I have Michelin Agilis M+S tyes which I read on another thread are accepted in Austria and Germany until 2024. I intend to be back in the UK by Nov 1st. They have done 11k so with some luck by 2024 I will be in the mood to buy the full three peaks replacements, at least for winter use.

[mtravel]

I forgot to mention Switzerland where winter tyres are not mandatory but...

 

... see for instance https://www.ch.ch/en/winter-tyres/

 

Max

[Robinhood]

Brian Kirby - 2021-10-07 5:47 PM

 

Campsites at Malles Venosta (Camping Mals) GPS N46.68410 E10.55007, Laces (Camping Laces, behind hotel) GPS N46.62219 E10.86365, Merano (Camping Meran, good site in town) GPS N46.66415 E11.15904, any of which should be about the right distance from Augsburg for your midway overnight stop. We have used all three and they were, when visited, fine with good facilities. However, all are between 1,000 and 3,000 feet up in the Alps, so might be a touch chilly in mid October. ;-)

 

We really like the valley there. Good for walking and cycling (even with the inclines the valley cycle path is excellent). Campsites were also doing the Vinschgau card inclusive in prices, which gives you free public transport over a very wide area (Good for the train to Merano, etc.).

 

The best site we found was "Camping im Park" at Glurns/Glorenza. Simple, but well situated and much cheaper than any of the local alternatives we found (it is effectively a municipal site).

 

In fact, on our first essay down the valley, we'd liked the countryside so much we turned back to find a site in order to explore more. Camping in Park was hosting a cycling event (it being weekend) and was full. We ended up at the nearby "Gloria Vallis" which has the distinction of being the most expensive site I've ever used, .....anywhere. (Excellent pitches and facilities, but exorbitant pricing - even their Stellplatz is more expensive than a pitch at "Camping in Park" , which we have had no difficulty in using except that first time).

[Brian Kirby]

Hello Bob. What a find! A complete little mediaeval town, complete with walls and entrance gates, with a municipal campsite only about 1/4 mile away by cycle/pedestrian path. GPS for the site entrance from the SS41 N46.66952 E10.54394

 

Town website and campsite details here: https://tinyurl.com/fev9nvs with downloadable brochure and campsite contact details. I looked at Google Earth and the site was completely deserted and appeared closed up, so Chris would be wise to check if he fancies it. However, it also looked as though the site roads were quite new, so maybe only seasonal opening. The facilities don't look as though they're quite up to winter sports use!! When did you last visit?

 

But we'll definitely have to try to get there next time we're in the Adige valley.

[mtravel]

Brian, if you talk about Glorenza, I had been there in February I think and it's was open.

Someone shew up in the late afternoon.

 

Down in the Veneto region is Montagnana, wonderful little town with medieval walls.

Stopover at 200 meters, right now I have no details but they should be available in the net.

 

Max

[Robinhood]

Last time that way was May '18, the last long European trip in the previous 'van.

 

The Streetview image appears to be November, and from the pricelist I think the site closes at the end of October.

 

It's a friendly, simple site - the transport card we got here was (from memory) valid for a week. It proved useful later miles away in San Lorenzo near Bruneck (since still in Sudtirol). Facilities basic but clean (and as I say, cheaper than anything else nearby).

 

There is some quite stunning architecture just up the valley in walking distance.

 

If you lived there and were bilingual, would your preferred address be Glurns, or Glorenza? B-)

[slowdriver]

Thanks for all the advice. In the end I went the way Brian recommended because it was the most direct, starting from Schongau where I stayed at a designated the camping car park, which was 7€ for as much electricity as required. Water was extra and so was the chemical waste disposal. I needed neither. The route from Fussen over the Fernpass to Nassereith was pretty much as described. I arrived at Landeck to discover the B180 was completely closed because half the side of the hill must have been washed away at some point. I ended up driving through a somewhat pedestrianised precinct following a delivery van but no matter which way I approached it the Recchenpass road was blocked. Extensive works were under way. I reconciled myself to buying a Vignette or GoBox ( depending what questions if any I was asked) and using the toll roads for the remainder of the route. In the event I was told at a petrol station that sold Vignettes that because the non-toll route was not available the Landeck tunnel was free. So that was a good result.

It’s a good route to Merano and the south.

 

In Glorenza I could not find a route to the Camping im Park that didn’t involve some fairly low and marginal medieval gateways which given the van is 3m high put me off. So I am currently esconced at the very plush indeed Gloria Vallis campsite. €28 all in with the most spectacular shower block I have ever seen including a dedicated shower for dogs. Who knew? Not me that’s for sure.

 

Tomorrow morning I’ll nip in to Glorenza before heading for Lucca

 

Costs so far for the three previous nights we’re.: Blegny Mine in Belgium. 2 € for electricity, De Freistat Stellplatz in Sulzemoos near Munich 3€ electricity, 7 € last night for electricity and parking Schongau. Plus the fuel, but that’s always there. It’s hard to fault this European approach to economical touring/travel.

 

 

[Robinhood]

slowdriver - 2021-10-12 4:39 PM

 

In Glorenza I could not find a route to the Camping im Park that didn’t involve some fairly low and marginal medieval gateways which given the van is 3m high put me off. So I am currently esconced at the very plush indeed Gloria Vallis campsite. €28 all in with the most spectacular shower block I have ever seen including a dedicated shower for dogs. Who knew? Not me that’s for sure.

 

 

...make the most of the excellent facilities (and the washing machine if still free) to get your moneysworth. ;-)

 

I seem to remember that the approach to Glorenza from the East through the walls was rather lower than that from the North, though we managed the lower one at a nominal 2.7m. (In fact, having just looked at Streetview, they appear to be 2.8 and 3.5m respectively (and arched above that height). Exit towards the campsite is not a problem)

 

€28 is significantly less than I paid (and less than their website implies).

[slowdriver]

Robinhood - 2021-10-12 5:06 PM

 

slowdriver - 2021-10-12 4:39 PM

 

In Glorenza I could not find a route to the Camping im Park that didn’t involve some fairly low and marginal medieval gateways which given the van is 3m high put me off. So I am currently esconced at the very plush indeed Gloria Vallis campsite. €28 all in with the most spectacular shower block I have ever seen including a dedicated shower for dogs. Who knew? Not me that’s for sure.

 

…..

 

I seem to remember that the approach to Glorenza from the East through the walls was rather lower than that from the North, though we managed the lower one at a nominal 2.7m. (In fact, having just looked at Streetview, they appear to be 2.8 and 3.5m respectively (and arched above that height). Exit towards the campsite is not a problem)

 

€28 is significantly less than I paid (and less than their website implies).

 

My initial approach was from the north, and the 3.5m sign did not make clear if that was to the top of the arch or bottom of the shoulder. In the circumstances I thougt I’d try the bottom, eastern gate, which as you say, is less encouraging.

 

[Brian Kirby]

slowdriver - 2021-10-12 4:39 PM...................................I arrived at Landeck to discover the B180 was completely closed because half the side of the hill must have been washed away at some point. I ended up driving through a somewhat pedestrianised precinct following a delivery van but no matter which way I approached it the Recchenpass road was blocked. Extensive works were under way. I reconciled myself to buying a Vignette or GoBox ( depending what questions if any I was asked) and using the toll roads for the remainder of the route. In the event I was told at a petrol station that sold Vignettes that because the non-toll route was not available the Landeck tunnel was free. So that was a good result. It’s a good route to Merano and the south.

I can but claim that it was perfectly good the last (2019) time we passed that way, Guv! :-D

 

I assume it must have been the heavy rain a few weeks back that caused the flooding elsewhere that washed out the hill above the road. It did have a lot of avalanche netting etc along its east side.

 

You should be OK down to Merano, and thereafter the SS38 (MeBo) is a good fast dual carriageway down to Bolzano, where it hits the (optional :-)) toll A22 towards Verona - although we invariably take the SS12 down to Trento, and then branch south-east for Venice.

 

In Glorenza I could not find a route to the Camping im Park that didn’t involve some fairly low and marginal medieval gateways which given the van is 3m high put me off. So I am currently esconced at the very plush indeed Gloria Vallis campsite. €28 all in with the most spectacular shower block I have ever seen including a dedicated shower for dogs. Who knew? Not me that’s for sure.

 

Tomorrow morning I’ll nip in to Glorenza before heading for Lucca.

 

Costs so far for the three previous nights we’re.: Blegny Mine in Belgium. 2 € for electricity, De Freistat Stellplatz in Sulzemoos near Munich 3€ electricity, 7 € last night for electricity and parking Schongau. Plus the fuel, but that’s always there. It’s hard to fault this European approach to economical touring/travel.

Glad you're enjoying the ride - despite the impediments! You'll enjoy Lucca.