monique.hubrechtsgm Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Is euro 6 in anyway involved in this.? Will it refuse to work if any parameters do not fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Monique, You'll have to give us a bit more info to understand what you are talking about! Make, model, year, heater type, etc, etc... Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 Just A Webasto 2000 .Air top. I say yes. And The forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 I think the forum may still be mystified... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Monique, If you write in French, Flemish, German or Nederland we can translate it (perhaps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 I think the question is, "will a non Euro 6 compliant diesel heater on a motorhome invalidate its Euro 6 rating"?? Answer: Nope, as it's not part of the propulsion unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 I’m guessing that Monique may be querying whether there might be potential technical issues when a motorhome fitted with a Euro 6-compliant diesel-fuelled engine is fitted with a diesel-fuelled habitation-area heater. Monique’s campervan is a VW-based Westfalia Kepler One that has a Euro 6 diesel-fuelled motor and (as she mentions above) a Webasto Air Top 2000 blown-air heater that is also diesel-fuelled. I don’t know what arrangement VW might include on a current-model Transporter to allow a diesel-fuelled heating system to be easily installed, but a number of ways of feeding diesel-fuel to the heater from the vehicle’s main diesel fuel-tank are shown in the heater’s installation instructions. https://www.butlertechnik.com/downloads/Webasto_Airtop_2000ST_Installation_Instruction.pdf The Webasto heater will have its own feed of diesel-fuel independent of the vehicle’s motor’s fuel-feed - this has to be the case as otherwise the heater could not be operated when the vehicle’s motor was not running. Consequently, if a vehicle has an emissions-control system that involves AdBlue, that should not affect a Webasto heater as the AdBlue will have its own fuel-tank separate from the vehicle’s main diesel-fuel tank. The only thing I can think of that might have provoked Monique’s enquiry is if she is under the impression that the Webasto heater somehow ‘shares’ the AdBlue that, when her VW’s motor is running, will be spraying into the motor’s exhaust system - but ‘sharing’ is not what happens. The attached diagram of an ‘AdBlue system’ shows the separate tank for the AdBlue (DEF) and that the AdBlue enters the exhaust system well downstream of the diesel engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 There were two new motor homers in our club brand new. And had problems. In a way truma or webasto stops the thing when burning ratio air fuel is out of mixture. And that is euro 6 related. No connection whit the engine, But he has a pick Up in the diesel tank. AD- blue in mine T6 tank has no connection according my lay out. The Ball is now discussed when the thing stops. Mine is running like hell this weekend at a present weekend dog festival in the south of Belgium. And the pop- up roof does not fly away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 monique.hubrechts@gm - 2019-03-16 2:30 PM There were two new motor homers in our club brand new. And had problems. In a way truma or webasto stops the thing when burning ratio air fuel is out of mixture. And that is euro 6 related. No connection whit the engine, But he has a pick Up in the diesel tank. AD- blue in mine T6 tank has no connection according my lay out. The Ball is now discussed when the thing stops. Mine is running like hell this weekend at a present weekend dog festival in the south of Belgium. And the pop- up roof does not fly away. Monique, I seriously doubt Euro emissions regulations apply to Diesel fired heaters, and certainly not after market fitted ones. If you think they do then please provide evidence, eg links. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Would a new diesel generator have to use Adblue.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Q:- if the diesel heater is used whilst motoring & the Authority were to carry out a roadside check for Emissions, would the vehicle fail ? The heater exhaust (as far as I'm aware) does not get routed through the Catalytic or DFP units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 flicka - 2019-03-16 7:40 PM Q:- if the diesel heater is used whilst motoring & the Authority were to carry out a roadside check for Emissions, would the vehicle fail ? The heater exhaust (as far as I'm aware) does not get routed through the Catalytic or DFP units. No. Any roadside check would only be for tailpipe emissions so your second statement correlates this. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppo Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 It's an interesting thought for the future and whether eventually there will be some form of regulation for diesel fuelled heaters in motorhomes. Similarly with gas heaters too, especially now with the news all new homes from 2025 will not be on the gas network. We will be driving fully electric vans with fully emission free heating systems, how's that for technology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 There are emissions regulations for diesel-fuelled generators (eg, the type of generator used to provide electrical power at fairgrounds and events) but those regulations have no connection to ‘Euro’ vehicle emissions standards and AdBlue is not involved in the systems fitted to those generators to control their emissions. I don’t know if there are standards/regulations regarding the emissions-level of the type of small diesel-fuelled heater that may be fitted to vehicles or boats. It’s to be anticipated that the manufacturers of such appliances (Webasto, Eberspacher, Truma, etc.) will seek to minimise the emissions so that they don’t belch out black smoke, and it’s perfectly understandable if the manufacturers fit sensors to moniitor an appliance's ‘burn’ and to switch off the heater if the ‘burn’ falls outside predetermined limits. But whatever standards/regulations there might (possibly) be, they won’t be the ‘Euro’ standards/regulations that apply to vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 The dealer Dicar of above new motorhomes came up whit it. But webasto in their FAQ said: We have optimal combustion in standstill and drive mode. We do not need a Cat or sooth filter etc. Will advice if this was a misinterpretation or not. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 They spray diesel over a glow plug. And have start- up smoke, And stop smoke. Is the glow plug about the same as a diesel engine ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgnbuk Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 "They spray diesel over a glow plug. And have start- up smoke, And stop smoke. Is the glow plug about the same as a diesel engine ?" Not so much "spray" as "drip". The glow plug is similar to diesel engine plug, but not exactly the same. The glow plug is only energised at start up and shut down, as once combustion has started it is self sustaining. The plug can be seen in this eBay listing item number: 292292038300 for the burner assembly used in my Chausson fitted Webasto Evo 55. There is a small amount of start up "smoke" on mine, though some of the "smoke" is condensation. Once running mine burns cleanly, though the exhaust runs a lot hotter than a Truma Combi - mine burned a hole into wet grass that went right down to the earth on one site (the "smoke" then was burning grass !) & I subsequently measured the exhaust pipe tip temperature as 180 degrees C with an infra-red thermometer. IIRC Webasto claim an operating efficiency of 90% for their heaters & a consumption of around 0.1 litre per kW/hour of heat produced, so not much to be concerned about ? The Webasto Evo 55 manuals (available here : https://www.butlertechnik.com/technical_library/air-top-evo-55-d26 ) make no mention of exhaust emission standards & show only two temperature sensors (heat exchanger & exhaust) used for monitoring the start up & operation of the heater - nothing monitoring exhaust gas emissions. Hope this helps. Nigel B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 Hot line whit you. Exhaust can be 260 deg c. Nigel help me out what i can do for some club members at this moment , caravans at cold night this weekend running on gas for heating do not start up because of under slung windblown. The pilot burner? And what you can do about it A skirt ? To name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 monique.hubrechts@gm - 2019-03-17 6:14 PM ...caravans at cold night this weekend running on gas for heating do not start up because of under slung windblown. Are they using Butane or Propane? Butane will not 'boil' and turn to gas at temperatures much below 5 °C so if they are using Butane they need to change to Propane. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I think Monique's enquiry related to caravans with gas-fuelled heaters that had their air-intake and gas-exhaust beneath the caravan (eg. Truma S-Series gas ‘fires’). I’ve no practical experience of this type of appliance but - just like old-tech 3-way fridges - I’ve no problem believing that their gas-burner’s ‘pilot light’ could be blown out by strong winds passing over the under-floor intake/exhaust. As with some older fridges, if the heater has gas auto-ignition, the heater should be able to relight the gas burner if it was blown out, but not all ‘fires’ have that feature. The answer (as Monique suggested) would be to prevent (or divert) the wind so that it does not affect the heater’s gas operation, fitting a ‘skirt’ or ‘apron’ to the parked caravan on its windward side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 Excellent Derek. My Webasto built underslung had no problem. I have magnetic skirts for L/R leaving the outlet stainless steel flex pipe of the webasto to ventilate in the lenght. And the caravans have their c- rail to place a skirt L/R. Can you explain when a gas pilot burner burns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 After seeing my van very hot they ask me can we put diesel heating in our caravan? Whit a small diesel tank of about 15 ltr to survive a weekend in stormy weather and sub zero temp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 As I said above, I’ve no hands-on experience of the gas ‘fires’ that used to almost universally be fitted to caravans. However, there is a good deal of on-line comment regarding the tendency for the flame of this type of heater to be blown out by strong gusts of wind. In fact, it’s only the heater’s air intake that’s located beneath the caravan’s floor and the heater’s gas-fumes exhaust will be via a cowl on the caravan’s roof. So, even if a skirt is attached to a caravan, that won’t necessarily prevent the gas-flame being blown out. Rather than opt for diesel heating for the caravans, it might be better to choose a gas heater that would be less vulnerable to windy weather - for example Truma’s VarioHeat https://www.truma.com/uk/en/products/truma-heater/truma-varioheat-eco.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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