New European License for Motorhomes up to 4250kgs

[JamesFrance]

The new European license was introduced across the EU last month. Holders of category B licenses can now drive motorhomes up to 4250 kgs but cars remain at 3500 kgs.

 

It is unclear whether this new rule will apply to existing licenses and they do not have to be exchanged (in France at least) until 2033.

 

http://www.camp-car.org/index.php?page=articles/droitCommerce/nouveauPermisEuropeen

 

If this is correct it will have a huge benefit for the Motorhome industry.

[pepe63xnotuse]

If this is correct,there's a fair few on here that'll be jumping for joy!

 

(..Ray!..you go easy dancing around the kitchen at your age...! (lol) ;-)

 

Although having just skimmed through it,it does make reference to additional training..?

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Quote:

"If the sum is greater than the GVWR 3500 kg but not exceeding 4250 kg, the holder of the Class B will lead to such a set of additional training and seven hours for the issuance of additional Class B reference 96).

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So maybe not an automatic entitlement then...

[malc d]

pepe63 - 2013-02-13 8:49 AM

 

If this is correct,there's a fair few on here that'll be jumping for joy!

 

 

.

 

 

................... but only if they haven't voted us out of the EU.

 

 

8-)

[Robinhood]

.....unless I'm missing something, then this seems to be a somewhat flawed intepretation of the underlying EU directive.

 

In this, the category B licence (the one in question) is clearly described as follows:

 

(b) Category B:

motor vehicles with a maximum authorised mass not

exceeding 3 500 kg and designed and constructed for the

carriage of no more than eight passengers in addition to the

driver; motor vehicles in this category may be combined

with a trailer having a maximum authorised mass which

does not exceed 750 kg.

 

Without prejudice to the provisions of type-approval rules

for the vehicles concerned, motor vehicles in this category

may be combined with a trailer with a maximum authorised

mass exceeding 750 kg, provided that the maximum

authorised mass of this combination does not exceed

4 250 kg.

 

In case such a combination exceeds 3 500 kg,

Member States shall, in accordance with the provisions of

Annex V, require that this combination shall only be driven

after:

 

— a training has been completed, or

— a test of skills and behaviour has been passed.

 

Member States may also require both such a training and

the passing of a test of skills and behaviour.

Member States shall indicate the entitlement to drive such a

combination on the driving licence by means of the relevant

Community code.

The minimum age for category B is fixed at 18 years;

 

....which I interpret as a minor change to the regulations viz-a-viz towing, and is of particular interest to "tuggers", who have faced some recent restrictions on the overall GTW of their outfits.

 

I can find no reference anywhere to increasing the entitlement for a motorcaravan to 4250kg.

 

It also appears to align with UK Government initiatives (or non-initiatives if you wish), as in interpreting the requirements for 4250kg GTW under Class B, they seem to have decided that the current testing arrangements for B+E licencing (which gives a greater entitlement than would be required for "B+750kg") will suffice (as UK practice) for the purposes of this directive, and envisage no change.

 

So.....don't get too excited chaps (unless someone can find a more explicit definition!)

[pepe63xnotuse]

malc d - 2013-02-13 9:10 AM

 

pepe63 - 2013-02-13 8:49 AM

 

If this is correct,there's a fair few on here that'll be jumping for joy!

 

 

 

................... but only if they haven't voted us out of the EU.

 

 

8-)

 

(lol) ...Oh yes...but of cause...they'll happily vote away any "interference" from Johny Foreigner...but just as long as they can keep the good "interference" though,eh!... ;-)

 

[JamesFrance]

The driving licence may authorise the holder to drive vehicles in the following categories:

 

category A – motorcycles weighing less than 750 kg;

category B – vehicles weighing less than 3 500 kg or caravans weighing less than 4 250 kg;

category B+E – combinations consisting of a category B vehicle and trailer;

category C – vehicles weighing more than 3 500 kg;

category C+E – combinations consisting of a category C vehicle and trailer;

category D – vehicles having more than 8 seats;

category D+E – combinations consisting of a category D vehicle and trailer.

 

http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/internal_market/single_market_for_goods/motor_vehicles/interactions_industry_policies/l24141_en.htm

 

 

[JamesFrance]

4. Member States may, after consulting the Commission, authorise the driving on their territory of:

 

(a) vehicles of category D1 (with a maximum authorised mass of 3500 kg, excluding any specialised equipment intended for the carriage of disabled passengers) by holders over 21 years old of a driving licence for category B which was obtained at least two years earlier provided that the vehicles are being used by non-commercial bodies for social purposes and that the driver provides his services on a voluntary basis;

 

(b) vehicles of a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3500 kg by holders over 21 years old of a driving licence for category B which was obtained at least two years before, provided that the main purpose of the vehicles is to be used only when stationary as an instructional or recreational area, and that they are being used by non-commercial bodies for social purposes and that vehicles have been modified so that they may not be used either for the transport of more than nine persons or for the transport of any goods other than those strictly necessary for their purposes.

 

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32006L0126:EN:NOT

 

So it seems to be up to each country to decide whether to include this. France has done so, what about the UK?

[pepe63xnotuse]

I'm probably being a bit dense(not great suprise there)but in...

 

"category B – vehicles weighing less than 3 500 kg or caravans weighing less than 4 250 kg;"

 

...do they mean "motorcaravans" ?..or "car & caravan combo' " ? :-S

 

because it also says.....

 

"category C – vehicles weighing more than 3 500 kg;"

 

I'm not being struck by it's clarity,if I'm honest..... :-S

 

edit:..once again,I've crossed posts..sorry James. :$

 

 

[Retread24800]

Just had a read of the conditions for a Permis B on 'Vos droits' and the conditions there state max PTAC of 3500Kg maybe coupled to a trailer max 750Kg giving a rolling mass of 4250Kg

[Robinhood]

....still can't see anything that convinces me.

 

The word "caravan" (as it appears in the first of James' quoted references above), doesn't appear anywhere in the original legislation, and neither does it appear in the Category B definition contained in the reference in James' second post. My suspicion is that this is a loose translation that would have been better described as "combination" or some such. I simply can't see how "caravan" (other than by very loose translation) has arrived in the argument.

 

Also, IMO, the referenced two additional possible authorisations for "over 3500kg" on a Category B licence don't appear to be aimed at motorcaravans. They would appear to cover the case of a) minibuses, etc. used for organisations or social transport, and b) such things as mobile classrooms, etc.

 

I could be convinced if someone could post an official French Government site where the use of a Cat B licence for a motorhome up to 4250kg was authorised, but I must admit, I would be surprised.

 

Whatever the above, all the evidence is that the UK Government are interpreting the directive as applying to a "combination" up to 4250kg (with the towing vehicle limited to 3500kg) and are not considering any changes, as they are interpreting that the current B+E test will provide the conformity.

[Derek Uzzell]

A few years ago there was strong lobbying from the French motorhome industry to revise the vehicle weight-maximum of a "B" driving-licence entitlement from 3500kg to 4250kg. The argument was that a "B" licence allowed a 3500kg vehicle + a 750kg unbraked trailer to be legally driven, so driving a 4250kg vehicle with no trailer should be at least as safe. If I remember correctly, the suggestion was that this concession would apply only to non-towing motorhomes (perhaps only to French-registered non-towing motorhomes?) but, unsurprisingly, the idea was rejected by the EU authorities who were trying to rationalise driving licences not complicate them further.

 

There already is a 'funny' motorhome-related driving licence entitlement unique to France (and mentioned in the link JamesFrance provided). This applies to French drivers with a "B" entitlement who passed their car driving-test before 20 January 1975. A footnote code (Code 79) is added to their licence and they can then legally drive an unrestricted-weight motorhome. (Yes - that really is UNRESTRICTED weight.)

[Mel B]

The below site shows recent amendments to the driving licence directive:

 

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/topics/behaviour/driving_licence/index_en.htm

 

I clicked on the link on the right in the Legislation box entitled:

 

Directive on driving licences (latest technical amendment) – 2012/36/EU

 

which took me to this:

 

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32012L0036:EN:NOT

 

I have copied the relevant part listed under ANNEX below:

 

---------------------------------------

 

ANNEX

 

.......

 

(8) code 96 is replaced by the following:

 

"96. Category B vehicles combined with a trailer with a maximum authorised mass exceeding 750 kg where the maximum authorised mass of such combination exceeds 3500 kg but does not exceed 4250 kg";

So, it appears that it is a COMBINATION of a vehicle up to 3500kg AND a trailer of up to 750kg that makes up the 4250kg, it is NOT just a SINGLE VEHICLE of up to 4250kg! :-|

[JamesFrance]

This whole situation is far from clear as there are conflicting pieces of information on different web sites. It does seem likely that there will be no change in Britain anyway, which is a great pity as it would help motorhome builders meet the demand for ever increasing lengths without destroying the load safety margins or creating flimsy structures just to save weight.

 

There does seem to be more consistency in the reports that a caravan can now be towed when it weighs over 750kgs with a B license without E, as long as the combination does not exceed 4250kgs PTAC.

[rolandrat]

Some years ago we ordered a Landrover Discovery from the local dealership and because it would be towing a 2 ton 4 wheeler drawbar trailer it had to be fitted with air brakes so it had to come from the SPECIAL TYPES department at Solihull. Initially it just made 3.5 ton gross until we fitted it out with trade items which took it over so it had to be fitted with a Tachograph. The brakes were well on top of the job but without the air system it would have been a death trap. The Discovery pulled the air braked trailer all over the UK for some years and we never once had a problem with it. It was always maintained within the Landrover dealerships. The above mention about the weight increase seems about right because the prime mover is far heavier than the trailer with no reference to any additional braking being specified.