Bop Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 An interesting article in the Courier today. Is this a thing of the future for Scottish motorhome adventures: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/fife/1354772/bid-to-restrict-freedom-camping-at-east-neuk-beauty-spots-begins/amp/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtemps Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 England is a complete dump for motorhoming. If Scotland follows in it’s big neighbours example then so be it. There is only one place to truly enjoy the freedom of motorhoming and that is the continent, particularly France, Germany and Spain. If the madness of the “B” word inhibits that, then I for one will pack it in. The U.K. with it’s restrictions and small mindedness is not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 To be fair, restricting numbers, providing marked bays, and charging £10 a night doesn't seem unreasonable. Indeed, we often see calls on here and in other forums for aires, and that is essentially what the first stage of the plan would provide. What is idiotic, however, is the proposal to move at some later date to an annual permit, which suggests they have no idea how most motorhomes are used. It might have some attraction if it were a nationwide scheme, but unless the cost were close to what you might expect to pay for couple of nights or so, I can't see anyone buying an annual permit for one small region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 longtemps - 2020-06-06 10:46 PM England is a complete dump for motorhoming. If Scotland follows in it’s big neighbours example then so be it. There is only one place to truly enjoy the freedom of motorhoming and that is the continent. The U.K. with it’s restrictions and small mindedness is not for me. Couldn't agree more never bothered with Scotland to far away from Cornwall with nothing in between after 10 yrs with motorhome never used it in UK Usually spend around 8 mths a year in Europe in 2 or 3 trips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 witzend - 2020-06-07 9:39 AM longtemps - 2020-06-06 10:46 PM England is a complete dump for motorhoming. If Scotland follows in it’s big neighbours example then so be it. There is only one place to truly enjoy the freedom of motorhoming and that is the continent. The U.K. with it’s restrictions and small mindedness is not for me. Couldn't agree more never bothered with Scotland to far away from Cornwall with nothing in between after 10 yrs with motorhome never used it in UK Usually spend around 8 mths a year in Europe in 2 or 3 trips you don't know what your missing, the bit in between is quite nice actually Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskers Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 I have not got a problem with the £10 per night so long as water and waste facilities were provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Bop - 2020-06-06 10:12 PM Is this a thing of the future for Scottish motorhome adventures: I suspect it is. I have a friend who lives in Arbroath. On day 1 of the SLIGHT relaxation of lockdown four campervans arrived on the sea front and overnighted. This has not gone down well with some (lots?) of locals. Some campervans may be full timers with no home but the I don't think the relaxation gives a green light to touring? A near neighbour with motorhome told me his van was being serviced on day 4 of SLIGHT relaxation of lockdown and when he picked it up that day he was off and "didn't care what the rules are!" Selfish idiot - I didn't use those words but I did indicate my disapproval. So people like these will spoil it for the responsible campervanners. And personally I would happily pay £10 provided toilet waste and fresh water were available and I indicated that to Robbie Blyth when his document went out for consultation - can't find the document now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adiebt Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 longtemps - 2020-06-06 10:46 PM England is a complete dump for motorhoming. If Scotland follows in it’s big neighbours example then so be it. There is only one place to truly enjoy the freedom of motorhoming and that is the continent, particularly France, Germany and Spain. If the madness of the “B” word inhibits that, then I for one will pack it in. The U.K. with it’s restrictions and small mindedness is not for me. Do people actually think before they post this kind of twaddle on the internet ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 It’s just a personal opinion and, as such, can be ignored if the reader so chooses. When we bought our first motorhome in 1998 the tentative plan was to use it to tour around the UK. We spent 5 days on on the Isle of Wight and 2 days at the Baltic Wharf campsite in Bristol. Then we took the motorhome to France and we have never motorcaravanned in the UK since. Like longtemps, if motorcaravanning abroad proved impracticable (or very restricted) in future, that would be the end of our motorhome-owning days. On the other hand, my sister-in-law and her partner have owned motothomes nearly as long as we have and have never taken the vehicles outside the UK or wanted to. One man’s meat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Why not, all things have cost implications, someone has to empty the rubbish, to supply water and facilities for grey and black waste disposal etc. Provided these facilities are provided £10 is still far less than a campsite, or maybe £5 if no services. in USA national parks only self contained vans can overnight where there are no toilets they are checked and issued a sticker. I appreciate that a lot of people are on a budget, but time and again on our travels around Europe we see owners with expensive vans try to freeload whenever they can. Drive off early to avoid paying. If owners are happy for other vans to park on their drive dump their rubbish, tip their waste in the garden and not make a contribution towards their stay then good luck! Tin hat on!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bop Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 One of the challenges of the new parking regime will surely be with the huge reduction of overnight parking slots. Some of these locations in Fife can receive upwards of 40+ vans during one summer evening so reducing the available number of van spots to just 5 or 8 will soon impact on the ability of wild campers to just turn up to a guaranteed space. Also, I was reading a short article in the Scottish Herald yesterday and there was a comment made by the Director of the NC500 Ltd whereby he mentioned that he wanted all motorhome owners to only use pre-booked campsite pitches while embarking on the NC500 route. I've not done the entire NC500 myself but from my recent recollection of the route there's not much in the way of logistic support given to motorhomers. Mrs Bop and I really do love Scotland but if things continue like this then we may look at other holiday destinations unless they start implementing policies that better support us visitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel wood Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 witzend - 2020-06-07 9:39 AM longtemps - 2020-06-06 10:46 PM England is a complete dump for motorhoming. If Scotland follows in it’s big neighbours example then so be it. There is only one place to truly enjoy the freedom of motorhoming and that is the continent. The U.K. with it’s restrictions and small mindedness is not for me. Couldn't agree more never bothered with Scotland to far away from Cornwall with nothing in between after 10 yrs with motorhome never used it in UK Usually spend around 8 mths a year in Europe in 2 or 3 trips This shows a total ignorance (in the true meaning of the word) of so many beautiful or historic or interesting places in England. I don't really see how one can legitimately dismiss the whole of the country apart from your own county. At least, with your not using your motorhome in the UK that is one less to be occupying a pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel wood Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Adiebt - 2020-06-08 7:38 AM longtemps - 2020-06-06 10:46 PM England is a complete dump for motorhoming. If Scotland follows in it’s big neighbours example then so be it. There is only one place to truly enjoy the freedom of motorhoming and that is the continent, particularly France, Germany and Spain. If the madness of the “B” word inhibits that, then I for one will pack it in. The U.K. with it’s restrictions and small mindedness is not for me. Do people actually think before they post this kind of twaddle on the internet ? I agree with you. S/he generalizes, dismissing an entire country and then regarding the whole of the rest of the continent as one place, implying there is freedom throughout for motorhoming . (Presumably s/he was meaning free places to stay overnight.)That is blatantly untrue as there are a number of countries in Europe where "camping" is only permitted on designated campsites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel wood Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 weldted - 2020-06-08 8:54 AM Why not, all things have cost implications, someone has to empty the rubbish, to supply water and facilities for grey and black waste disposal etc. Provided these facilities are provided £10 is still far less than a campsite, or maybe £5 if no services. in USA national parks only self contained vans can overnight where there are no toilets they are checked and issued a sticker. I appreciate that a lot of people are on a budget, but time and again on our travels around Europe we see owners with expensive vans try to freeload whenever they can. Drive off early to avoid paying. If owners are happy for other vans to park on their drive dump their rubbish, tip their waste in the garden and not make a contribution towards their stay then good luck! Tin hat on!! Well put! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpyman Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 The worst thing to happen was the publicity regarding the NC500. If you cant work out you own routes etc you shoudn't be motorhoming. I have been going to Scotland for the last twenty five years so have covered every inch using a good old fashioned map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel wood Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Bop - 2020-06-08 1:18 PM One of the challenges of the new parking regime will surely be with the huge reduction of overnight parking slots. Some of these locations in Fife can receive upwards of 40+ vans during one summer evening so reducing the available number of van spots to just 5 or 8 will soon impact on the ability of wild campers to just turn up to a guaranteed space. Also, I was reading a short article in the Scottish Herald yesterday and there was a comment made by the Director of the NC500 Ltd whereby he mentioned that he wanted all motorhome owners to only use pre-booked campsite pitches while embarking on the NC500 route. I've not done the entire NC500 myself but from my recent recollection of the route there's not much in the way of logistic support given to motorhomers. Mrs Bop and I really do love Scotland but if things continue like this then we may look at other holiday destinations unless they start implementing policies that better support us visitors. Don't you think that those "40+" van owners should be contributing financially for their overnight stay? If not, why not? What "logistic support" are you thinking of? Last year we travelled from Ullapool south to Dumfries and Galloway and had no problem finding campsites (and some designated overnight parking spots which required a very small payment). We have also travelled the east coast up to Dunnett Head with no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Part of the problem is folk think the "freedom to roam" in Scotland means one can park a motor caravan anywhere. Look carefully at the rules, they were intended for campers, particularly those going with a backpack into the remote areas. https://www.scotways.com/faq/law-on-statutory-access-rights/229-what-activities-are-not-covered-by-rights-of-access There is a lot of tolerance generally as long a people are sensible. The Loch Lomond and Trossachs national park has a permit system, which works well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 As a foreigner who loves your country, may I join the discussion ? I have already visited your country four times (the whole, from Land's End to John O'Groats, Orkneys and almost all the Inner Hebrides included). I have traveled the NC500 route in one direction and in the other, I have traveled the Highlands up and down. I have visited big towns as well as villages and small ones in the Cotswolds, Chilterns, Yokshire and Northumberland. Etc, etc. I am not an intrusive traveler, in 90% of cases I use a campsite, only seldom I wild camp. And when I do it, it's in places where overnight parking is definitely allowed, whether for a fee or not. Last year in Ripon, Bourton-on-the-Water and Praa Sands I have stayed overnight outside a campsite. Only in Canterbury did I find what can be called an equipped rest area throughout Europe. Having said that, you will have understood that the cost of a campsite does not stop me even if paying £5 for some EHU's Wh seems exaggerated. 2007, 2010, 2013 and 2019, I have noticed changes almost always for the worse. It was known that all of England was a parade of no-overnight signals. Even in Scotland they are now growing in number. The only difference is that they use no-sleeping. In many car parks where even a motorhome (even a small one) has to pay for 24 hours without being able to stop overnight. It seems absurd to me. Whether they are managed by the National Trust (Birling Gap), by the local community (Lulworth/Durdle Door) or by ownership (Alnwick Castle), little changes. What I don't find correct is this new claim of having to book a campsite in advance. Motorhome tourism has the only advantage of not having to decide in advance where to stop for the night. In my travels to your land I believe I have left a few thousand pounds to your economy. If the UK continues with its ostracism towards the traveling tourists I think I will turn my attention to other nations. And like me many will do. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 mtravel - 2020-06-08 2:35 PM It was known that all of England was a parade of no-overnight signals. Even in Scotland they are now growing in number. The only difference is that they use no-sleeping. Max Neither of those signs have any legal backing. Because councils don't have to show the relevant law on the sign like they do in Italy. So they sometimes put up signs with no legal backing which you can ignore as long as you know which ones you can ignore, and which you can't. And you say the right thing if questioned. It basically comes down to the system of local government in Britain. Local politicians are only interested in people who live locally because they are the only ones with a vote. So they do everything to benefit local people only - obstructing new housing development (creating the housing crisis), and motorhome parking as it takes revenue away from local hotels and restaurants etc. :-S PS: Its a bit like Italy where I was told 'In Italy everything is prohibited, but everything is possible' (lol) Oh, and despite all the bluff and bluster, they are clearly not following up all the foreign registered vehicles to pursue charges because the Dartford Crossing, for example, is owed many £millions in charges from foreign registered vehicles who stick 2 fingers up to the charges that British registered vehicles have to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 John52 - 2020-06-09 8:16 AM mtravel - 2020-06-08 2:35 PM It was known that all of England was a parade of no-overnight signals. Even in Scotland they are now growing in number. The only difference is that they use no-sleeping. Max Neither of those signs have any legal backing. Because councils don't have to show the relevant law on the sign like they do in Italy. So they sometimes put up signs with no legal backing which you can ignore as long as you know which ones you can ignore, and which you can't. And you say the right thing if questioned. It basically comes down to the system of local government in Britain. Local politicians are only interested in people who live locally because they are the only ones with a vote. So they do everything to benefit local people only - obstructing new housing development (creating the housing crisis), and motorhome parking as it takes revenue away from local hotels and restaurants etc. :-S PS: Its a bit like Italy where I was told 'In Italy everything is prohibited, but everything is possible' (lol) Oh, and despite all the bluff and bluster, they are clearly not following up all the foreign registered vehicles to pursue charges because the Dartford Crossing, for example, is owed many £millions in charges from foreign registered vehicles who stick 2 fingers up to the charges that British registered vehicles have to pay. In Italy it is said that what is not prohibited is allowed. But it is also said that the law does not allow ignorance, that is, you must know it. For example, a white P in a square blue sign alone indicates generic parking. All vehicles can park without distinction. A sign P with a car underneath indicates a parking space reserved for cars (no motorhomes which, like cars, are vehicles of M1 category but with different intended use). A sign P with the figure of a barred camper means parking for everyone but not for motorhomes. Although in this case the legitimacy of the ban is questionable. In any case, if there are lines drawn on the ground, you have to stay inside them (you must know the law). As for Dartford Crossing, I assure you that notifications of non-payment are sent to Italy with a fine. With kindness: " We understand that you are a foreigner and probably not aware of this automatic toll. For this reason, if you pay the normal rate within 30 days, you will not have surcharges or fines. " I believe the same happens for the congestion and pollution charges of the various cities (London, Durham, etc.) and for toll bridges and tunnels (e.g. Liverpool). Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Max Thats useful to know Thanks - as I am hoping to go to Italy again In the 1980's I went to Italy with a lorry many times, uncoupled the semi-trailer and drove into many cities like Florence to visit., with just the tractor unit This was too heavy for their tow truck - so I only got parking tickets and ignored them, heard nothing more , but that was over 30 years ago and things are probably different now. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adiebt Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-08 8:43 AM It’s just a personal opinion and, as such, can be ignored if the reader so chooses. Once such piffle is read it can’t unfortunately be unread , personal opinion most certainly does not excuse ignorance . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocs Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 In answer to the OP’s original question, I do hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bop Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 crocs - 2020-06-09 5:39 PM In answer to the OP’s original question, I do hope so. New camper incidents now being reported on a daily basis: https://www.obantimes.co.uk/2020/06/09/glenorchy-campers-defying-restrictions-msp/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Good morning, I do hope they charge atenner a night people knowwgere they stand then, Where else can you go for three nights for thirty quid. They need to be much more sensible and commerciaaly minded but this is not common with bureucrats and petty poiticians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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