John Allen Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 After a lot of investigation including reading posts on this forum and reading A&N Caravan's website I concluded that the Chinese Solar Regulator C1210 fitted to my 2015 Autro Trail Apache 700 (standard low level kit?- come on Auto-Trail you can do better than this) was not cutting the mustard. I decided to fit on A&N 's recommendation a Votronic regulator. I was amazed to see the the increase of 0.2 amps solar charge immediately increase to 0.8 amps on a semi-gloomy February day. I also fitted a fuse on the live side of the supply from the solar panel (as recommend by Allan) complete with notices attached to each battery requesting this fuse to be removed before disconnecting each battery. Thanks Allan for your help One question: I understand the logic of disconnection of the battery(s) damaging the solar regulator though regulated current having nowhere to go, am i correct in thinking this would also apply if either of the battery fuses 6 or 7 were removed from the Sargent EC500? If so there will be a need to attach an appropriate warning notice in that position also? A big word of THANKS to all you electrical wizzards on this forum who very patiently put up with us lesser intelligent members and our stupid questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Regarding the instant gain in charge current that you saw, I'd be interested to know if the Votronic is still a PWM controller from their 'SR' range or whether you changed to one of their 'MPP' range of MPPT controllers? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Allen Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 Steve928 - 2019-02-18 8:45 AM Regarding the instant gain in charge current that you saw, I'd be interested to know if the Votronic is still a PWM controller from their 'SR' range or whether you changed to one of their 'MPP' range of MPPT controllers? Thanks. Hi Steve, it is the MPP 165 Duo Dig Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 John Allen - 2019-02-17 10:10 PM After a lot of investigation including reading posts on this forum and reading A&N Caravan's website I concluded that the Chinese Solar Regulator C1210 fitted to my 2015 Autro Trail Apache 700 (standard low level kit?- come on Auto-Trail you can do better than this) was not cutting the mustard. I decided to fit on A&N 's recommendation a Votronic regulator. I was amazed to see the the increase of 0.2 amps solar charge immediately increase to 0.8 amps on a semi-gloomy February day. I also fitted a fuse on the live side of the supply from the solar panel (as recommend by Allan) complete with notices attached to each battery requesting this fuse to be removed before disconnecting each battery. Thanks Allan for your help One question: I understand the logic of disconnection of the battery(s) damaging the solar regulator though regulated current having nowhere to go, am i correct in thinking this would also apply if either of the battery fuses 6 or 7 were removed from the Sargent EC500? If so there will be a need to attach an appropriate warning notice in that position also? A big word of THANKS to all you electrical wizzards on this forum who very patiently put up with us lesser intelligent members and our stupid questions. John, a four fold improvement is excellent. Yes you are correct, any interruption to Solar power reaching the 12v batteries from the Regulator can lead to some issue or other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 aandncaravan - 2019-02-18 11:12 AM "Yes you are correct, any interruption to Solar power reaching the 12v batteries from the Regulator can lead to some issue or other. " Could you elaborate on this please. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 trialsrider - 2019-02-19 10:42 AM aandncaravan - 2019-02-18 11:12 AM "Yes you are correct, any interruption to Solar power reaching the 12v batteries from the Regulator can lead to some issue or other. " Could you elaborate on this please. Thanks If a Solar Regulator is charging a battery and the battery terminal clamps are removed, there could be a voltage spike/surge within the unit that could cause damage. Think of it as water surging through a water pipe when someone suddenly stops it flowing by shutting a valve, the pressure in the pipe will momentarily rise, potentially quite sharply, because of the weight and inertia of the force of the water suddenly being brought to a stop. If the Solar regulator is charging the habitation battery via the Power controller/distribution unit, like a Sargent ECxxx, Schaudt Elektroblock, etc then any spike caused within the Solar Regulator is now also able to penetrate the vehicles habitation electrical systems. If the Solar charger also charges the vehicle Starter battery then the spike may also penetrate the chassis electrics reaching the vehicle Body computer, Tracker, Aftermarket Alarm, etc as some devices are permanently 'live' waiting for Alarm Off', 'Door Open' signals and the like. The Body computer seems to be particularly susceptible to spiking and can also become a casualty during Jump Starting. We have seen two vehicles where the body computer suffered damage, I think one of them was documented on here somewhere? and the Fiat bill for the new body computer was eye watering. We also heard from someone whose Body Computer and Elektroblock 'randomly' failed following a Habitation service where the batteries were changed. According to the Dealer, the two items just failed after they had completed their work and were driving it to the car park area. We can only guess at the cause, but the vehicle did have Solar and the damage to the Elektroblock that we worked on was also similar to other damage from Solar regulator issues. We sent a copy of our bill and 'guesstamate' of cause, but I don't think the Dealer ever admitted liability, but when the total bill (mostly Fiats) was close to £1,000 you can maybe see why that was so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plwsm2000 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 The Votronic MPPT duo solar regulator is supposed to limit its output in any event to 15V and also has over voltage protection built in to prevent damage to itself if an external charger fault causes the battery terminal to go above 15-16V. (another tick for the Votronic as one of the best MH solar regulators IMO) I have not tested this myself (for obvious reasons) and this just comes from the operating instructions in the Votronic manual. On page 7, a couple of paragraphs state - "Overvoltage Protection: The 12 V solar controllers protect themselves against connection of excessive battery voltage rates or will be switched-off in case of defective additional charging systems (chargers, generators or similar systems), switching threshold 15.0-16.0 V, depending on the battery type. Overvoltage Limitation: Sensitive consumers are protected by means of a limitation of the charging voltage to max. 15.0 V during all modes of charging." It maybe that the Votronic solar regulator protects the rest of the vehicle electronics better than other regulators, but I agree that it is best to not take any chances. That said, how do you protect against a blown fuse? (if you had a temporary short that takes out the fuse, the battery will be disconnected from the controller). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 plwsm2000 - 2019-02-19 2:39 PM The Votronic MPPT duo solar regulator is supposed to limit its output in any event to 15V and also has over voltage protection built in to prevent damage to itself if an external charger fault causes the battery terminal to go above 15-16V. (another tick for the Votronic as one of the best MH solar regulators IMO) I have not tested this myself (for obvious reasons) and this just comes from the operating instructions in the Votronic manual. On page 7, a couple of paragraphs state - "Overvoltage Protection: The 12 V solar controllers protect themselves against connection of excessive battery voltage rates or will be switched-off in case of defective additional charging systems (chargers, generators or similar systems), switching threshold 15.0-16.0 V, depending on the battery type. Overvoltage Limitation: Sensitive consumers are protected by means of a limitation of the charging voltage to max. 15.0 V during all modes of charging." It maybe that the Votronic solar regulator protects the rest of the vehicle electronics better than other regulators, but I agree that it is best to not take any chances. That said, how do you protect against a blown fuse? (if you had a temporary short that takes out the fuse, the battery will be disconnected from the controller). Plwsm2000, I agree 100% about the Votronic, it is the things most people don't consider when purchasing a Solar Rgulator that stand it head and shoulders above the rest. But very impressed with a Buttner solar device we have just repaired. What I like most of the Votronic is the efficiency of the output electronics that stop backdraw of current when the Sun goes down. What is commonly referred to by other manufacturers as the 'Blocking Diodes'. I also agree it is safer to adopt a universal policy of isolating the Solar panel regardless, as the reliability of 'protection' electronics inside each Solar Regulator might be questionable in all events. As for the fuse, in most instances, I think, the Fuse is there to protect the device, so the fuse is only likely to fail if the Regulator has already faulted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 aandncaravan - 2019-02-19 12:44 PM trialsrider - 2019-02-19 10:42 AM aandncaravan - 2019-02-18 11:12 AM "Yes you are correct, any interruption to Solar power reaching the 12v batteries from the Regulator can lead to some issue or other. " Could you elaborate on this please. Thanks If a Solar Regulator is charging a battery and the battery terminal clamps are removed, there could be a voltage spike/surge within the unit that could cause damage. Think of it as water surging through a water pipe when someone suddenly stops it flowing by shutting a valve, the pressure in the pipe will momentarily rise, potentially quite sharply, because of the weight and inertia of the force of the water suddenly being brought to a stop. If the Solar regulator is charging the habitation battery via the Power controller/distribution unit, like a Sargent ECxxx, Schaudt Elektroblock, etc then any spike caused within the Solar Regulator is now also able to penetrate the vehicles habitation electrical systems. If the Solar charger also charges the vehicle Starter battery then the spike may also penetrate the chassis electrics reaching the vehicle Body computer, Tracker, Aftermarket Alarm, etc as some devices are permanently 'live' waiting for Alarm Off', 'Door Open' signals and the like. The Body computer seems to be particularly susceptible to spiking and can also become a casualty during Jump Starting. We have seen two vehicles where the body computer suffered damage, I think one of them was documented on here somewhere? and the Fiat bill for the new body computer was eye watering. We also heard from someone whose Body Computer and Elektroblock 'randomly' failed following a Habitation service where the batteries were changed. According to the Dealer, the two items just failed after they had completed their work and were driving it to the car park area. We can only guess at the cause, but the vehicle did have Solar and the damage to the Elektroblock that we worked on was also similar to other damage from Solar regulator issues. We sent a copy of our bill and 'guesstamate' of cause, but I don't think the Dealer ever admitted liability, but when the total bill (mostly Fiats) was close to £1,000 you can maybe see why that was so? Totally understand now. Many thanks and lesson learnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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