Vernon B Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 A few years ago I had cause to have our Frankia/Mercedes recovered after a "motorway incident". Fortunately I had had the Towing Eye that came with the jack and tool kit fitted to the chassis and as a consequence the job of loading the "van onto the recovery vehicle was a relatively straightforward matter. I was pleased to see that our new Fiat based Frankia also came with a Towing Eye but now find there is no provision for its fitting to the chassis - nor is there any obvious alternative means of attaching the winding gear. Has anyone had a similar experience and found that the recovery guys have ways of dealing with this problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 When I couldn't find my towing eye, the breakdown team tied the cable on the front suspension. I made sure I knew where it was after that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 I had a similar problem. I know I used to have a towing eye as I got recovered with it once and last year I decided I should make sure I had one but firstly I couldnt find it and then I discovered there was nowhere to screw one in anymore. This confused the hell out of me until I discovered that somewhere along the line I think I had a new cross member fitted (if thats the right term) and the new part was minus the towing eye socket. I went down to my body shop and the guy just welded a big heavy duty one on that he had in his bin of bits. Its just there permanent now and I needed it last summer in the Pyrenees when I had a wheel bearing go. Could be an option if there is nowhere to screw one in. Ill never lose mine now as its a permanent fixture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Vernon B - 2018-07-05 12:16 PM ...I was pleased to see that our new Fiat based Frankia also came with a Towing Eye but now find there is no provision for its fitting to the chassis - nor is there any obvious alternative means of attaching the winding gear. Has anyone had a similar experience and found that the recovery guys have ways of dealing with this problem? It’s quite possible that - even if there were a fitting on the chassis of an A-class motorhome into which a removable towing-eye could be screwed - the vehicle’s ‘bespoke’ front bodywork would prevent the eye from being used to tow the motorhome or to load it on to a recovery truck. The attached photo suggests that this may indeed be the case with a current model Frankia i640SD. As Billggski says, if it’s not practicable to connect a cable/rope to a dedicated towing-eye that protrudes from the vehicle’s front or to a fixing on the vehicle’s chassis, then the cable/rope will (logically) need to be attached to the vehicle’s suspension and this approach may present problems. In 1980 I owned a Reliant Scimitar GTE and I had the left front suspension collapse while driving, leaving the car with its left front wheel up in the wheel arch and its chassis touching the road. While waiting for the recovery truck to arrive we managed to get the car back on its 4 wheels having bound the disconnected suspension parts tightly together with bailing wire. This rough-and-ready fix allowed the car to be driven on to the recovery transporter rather than being winched on board. The transporter’s driver commented that it was a fortunate that this could be done as a Scimitar had no towing points and using a winch-cable connected to the car’s chassis or suspension invariably caused damage to a Scimitar’s glass-fibre bodywork. He said that, before winching a Scimitar on to a transporter, they demanded that the car’s owner sign a waiver saying that he/she had been made aware that this procedure would result in bodywork damage and that he/she agreed that it should be done. You’d be well advised to explore this with the vendor of your Frankia and/or with your breakdown/recovery provider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Wouldn't you think that among all the EU requirements and regulations for construction to meet the relevant standards, there would be some requirement for all motorhomes (and indeed all vehicles) to have an effective towing point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 A class or not on fiat you have the same one inch in depth taphole calling a towing eye. And it is NOT A REAL TOWING EYE. Only for transport your vehicle. Read your car documents what it can do or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 The Owner Handbook for current model Fiat Ducato vehicles includes “TOWING THE VEHICLE” guidance. This advice includes the following section. "WARNING 173) Screw on the tow ring and check that it stops at the end of travel position. 174) Before towing, switch off the steering lock (see "Starting device" paragraph under the "Dashboard and controls" section). 175) The power brakes and power steering will not operate while the vehicle is being towed. More effort on the brake pedal and steering wheel will therefore be required. 176) Do not use flexible cables when towing and avoid jerky movements. During towing operations, make sure that the fastened joint does not damage adjoining components. 177) When towing the vehicle, it is necessary to obey specific road regulations which relate both to the towing device as well as to the behaviour to adopt on the road. 178) Do not start the engine whilst the vehicle is being towed. 179) Towing must be made exclusively on roads/streets; the device must not be used to recover the vehicle if it got off the road. 180) Towing must not be made for getting past significant obstacles on the road (e.g. heaps of snow or material on the road surface). 181) Towing must take place with the two vehicles (one towing, the other towed) aligned as much as possible; towing by roadside assistance vehicles, too, must take place with the two vehicles aligned as much as possible.” It’s absolutely clear from the above guidance that Fiat anticipates that the screw-in ‘tow ring’ (that should be in the under-cab-seat tool box when that is provided) will be used if the vehicle needs to be towed in a forwards direction by another vehicle. There is no mention that the tow ring’s usage must be restricted to ‘transporting’ the vehicle. Having said that, there are structural and stress-related limitations that will need to be taken into account if the Ducato needs to be towed/winched. As Monique warns, the chassis-fitting into which the tow ring screws does not have infinite strength and Paragraph 179 warns against using the tow ring to recover the vehicle if, say, it has ended up in a ditch. Paragraph 181 advises that the towing and towed vehicles should be aligned as much as possible to prevent sideways force being applied to the tow ring and to its chassis-fitting. As will be seen from this 2012 forum discussion http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Check-your-towing-eye/28312/ the ‘towing eye’ potential problem with A-class motorhome models has been recognised before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 I was towed out of the mud at the Goodwood Revival in September, but I had put the towing eye in the front door pocket after my previous experience. (I had a Scimitar in the late 70's. Great for touring down to the south of France to Canvas Holidays sites where it caused quite a stir, the French had never seen one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Getting down and dirty should enable Vernon to feel the Fiat chassis sufficiently to locate the eye and then see if there is any way of accessing it so the tow hook can be affixed. There must be one as Monique says unless the chassis has been modified. The tow hook would be useful for towing the vehicle short distances across a muddy field [notwithstanding what Fiat say]. It is sometimes used, I believe, to cable winch a vehicle on to a flat bed style of tow vehicle [or more likely on to a hydraulic platform]. Given the plethora of regulations on towing a vehicle on the public highway nowadays, I doubt it would be used for towing a vehicle down the road. I'd guess if worse came to worst, the breakdown trucker would remove the front bumper on Vernon's van. They removed the rear panel on the nine or so buses that overheated on the Wirral last week so they can lift the rear end. My Hymer A-class has a plate in the front 'bumper' driver side which I can unscrew to get access to the towing eye. To clear the bodywork, I have a longer tow hook than that provided as standard for Fiat Ducato commercial vehicles at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Brock - 2018-07-08 1:54 PM ...I'd guess if worse came to worst, the breakdown trucker would remove the front bumper on Vernon's van. They removed the rear panel on the nine or so buses that overheated on the Wirral last week so they can lift the rear end. My Hymer A-class has a plate in the front 'bumper' driver side which I can unscrew to get access to the towing eye. To clear the bodywork, I have a longer tow hook than that provided as standard for Fiat Ducato commercial vehicles at the time. I can just imagine Vernon’s current Frankia motorhome being stuck on the hard shoulder of a French autoroute and Jacques and his breakdown/recovery crew turning up, finding that the vehicle has no quick and simple means of being towed to safety or being winched on to a recovery transporter, and saying “No problem, sir, we’ll just remove the front bumper”. In the link to a 2012 forum discussion I provided above Vernon (who then owned a Mercedes-based Frankia) advised that these models needed "an extension piece to bridge the gap between the chassis and the bumper”. This requirement is also mentioned in a 2012 MHFacts thread http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/153-mercedes-chassis/100417-check-your-towing-eye.html Vernon’s original posting indicates that his previous Mercedes-based Frankia had a removable ‘towing eye’ that allowed the vehicle to be recovered after a motorway incident, but - although his recently acquired Fiat Ducato-based Frankia also has a towing eye (presumably the one shown in the attached photo) this evidently cannot be fitted to the motorhome. Quote - "I was pleased to see that our new Fiat based Frankia also came with a Towing Eye but now find there is no provision for its fitting to the chassis - nor is there any obvious alternative means of attaching the winding gear." Vernon has not explained why the towing eye provided wih his new Frankia cannot be fitted to the motorhome’s chassis, but frontal photos of current Frankia i640SD models suggest that the design’s front bumper has no suitably-positioned aperture through which the towing eye could be inserted in order to screw it into the female-threaded chassis mounting-point that’s normally present on a Ducato chassis. When a towing eye is provided that goes through a vehicle’s front bumper, it’s common practice for the aperture in the bumper to have a removable ‘filler’ of some sort (like the ‘plate’ on your Hymer) to cover the hole, but photos of current Frankia A-class designs show no signs of an appropriate aperture or ‘filler’ in the front bumper. As Vernon is not a motorcaravanning virgin and has owned a Frankia before, I’m sure he will have carefully explored how the Fiat towing eye might possibly be fitted, but his enquiry here proves that he has been unable to decide how this might be done. The concern is that there does not seem to be a great deal of ground clearance beneath the Frankia’s front bumper and, if a recovery crew attached a towing/winching cable/strap to the motorhome’s front suspension, there’s a good chance this would result in the bumper becoming damaged. Even if the towing eye could be screwed into the normal threaded fitting on a Ducato chassis, if the eye does not protrude through the front bumper it is effectively unusable. Given the 2012 comments about special parts being needed for towing A-Class Frankias, it’s possible that this will still be the case nowadays. Vernon has (reasonably) assumed, because his Frankia’s Fiat tool-kit includes a towing eye, that the latter can be employed if the motorhome needs to be towed/recovered. However, there may be a ’trick’ with current A-class Frankias where a special part is needed (rather than the Fiat towing eye) and/or something needs to be done (eg. removing the front number-plate) to allow that part to be fitted in an emergency situation or to allow access to a towing strong-point. As I said above, Vernon would be wise to ask the vendor of his motorhome about this issue and, if they cannot provide credible guidance, insist that Frankia be contacted for advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 When I couldn't find the towing eye I suggested they winched the moho up backwards using the towbar, but was met with a shake of the head. Apparently not possible, but no explanation why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon B Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 Many thanks for the suggestions and observations and in particular Derek's precise description of my situation - with relevant picture as well!! As suggested I think I'll need to consult Frankia on this one but in the mean time I have to make a visit to my Fiat dealer tomorrow and I'll ask them if they can locate an appropriate female orifice for my towing member! So watch this space - and thanks again V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 All fiat front chassis have a connection in one of the runners. In case of A- class it is covered by the front part. In my case you have to remove a square small plate fixed by velcron. Take off by a small scewdriver, or a spatel. You can not see the taphole, be sure you engage all threads, and clean the hole regulary and use some grease. Not sure if it is a blind hole. But the limit end position of the bolt is critical. I saw some pictures of what can happen to A class when the traverse runner cames off. Key word: angle of pulling force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon B Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 monique.hubrechts@gm - 2018-07-10 4:18 PM All fiat front chassis have a connection in one of the runners. In case of A- class it is covered by the front part. In my case you have to remove a square small plate fixed by velcron. Take off by a small scewdriver, or a spatel. You can not see the taphole, be sure you engage all threads, and clean the hole regulary and use some grease. Not sure if it is a blind hole. But the limit end position of the bolt is critical. I saw some pictures of what can happen to A class when the traverse runner cames off. Key word: angle of pulling force. Yes this is true as I can confirm from my visit to Platts at S-o-T this morning! After some detective work by one of the technicians it was found that a section of trim adjacent to the running lights was removable giving access to the tap hole. The section was moulded to be be in keeping with its surroundings and had no visible fixings - It could not be seen from under the front end because of a cowling and required quite a clever pull and slide movement to release it. I suggest Frankia owners of this vintage might like to check it out on their outfits - it's not obvious! V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Good to read, Vernon. Have you checked the towing arm screws in and protrudes far enough? When I was at the Peterborough Show a few years ago, a number of A-class owners found their towing eye was not long enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred22 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I had a Scimitar GTE and the front left hand suspension collapsed. No problem getting it on to the recovery truck , backwards with a cable attached to the tow ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickq Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 I know this is an old thread but it came up in a google search so... I can confirm that it is a bad idea to tow the fiat ducato across a muddy/soft field. The stresses are massive on the tow eye. I was away recently and at least 4 vans had their tow eye thread stripped and for mine it actually broke internally. In my ducato a-class (2017) the toe eye is a hole in what feels like a box section of chassis and on the back of that hole is a nut welded to this steel. The nut snapped off the steel and is now loose inside so the tow eye can no longer be screwed in. I only managed to get it out as you could push the nut up to the side of the steel and unscrew. To get this fixed would need someone to remove the front body work then do cutting and welding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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