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No Whaire like this in UK
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userrobertandjean
Posted: 25 August 2020 7:33 PM
Subject: No Whaire like this in UK
 
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Now on a real gem of an Aire at Notre-Dame de Courson, south of Lsieux in Normandy. Generous individual hard standing pitches in a country park style setting just a short walk from the small but pleasant village. There is no charge to stay and all services including 16 amp individual electric hook up to each pitch are also free! No time restrictions on stay, chairs etc out and no way is this a car park. If only U.K. could provide any thing approaching this then all would benefit. Not having to pay £45/night site fees, as did a few weeks ago when took grandchildren with us on a club site means were able this lunch time to have an excellent meal in the village restaurant, and so give something back to the town, as well as adding to the pleasure of our visit.
userDen
Posted: 25 August 2020 8:13 PM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 
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Sounds like a nice find.
I’ve made a note for our trips next year.
I’ve not used a uk site for years and was shocked when I priced up 1 night in broadway.

I’m sure you’ll have a great time
Take care
Den
userNicepix
Posted: 25 August 2020 8:28 PM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 
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Sounds lovely. I do agree in putting money into the local economy via enjoying nice meals and using amenities such as canoe hire, museums, etc. Especially when the commune are being so hospitable. Hope that your holiday continues to be just as enjoyable.
userIngo Sundowner
Posted: 25 August 2020 9:09 PM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 


Just love to read a post like this. While the reality here in England lightened my wallet to the tune of 57quid for 2 nights in a field with electricity.
Enjoy your stay there, we'll not be too far behind you
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 26 August 2020 7:06 AM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 


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More details here

https://www.campercontact.com/en/france/normandie-14-27-50-61-76/notre-dame-de-courson/13690/aire-de-camping-car-intercommunale-de-notre-dame-de-courson
userEJB
Posted: 26 August 2020 9:07 AM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 
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With nearly 3 times the area of land France can afford to use some of it for very low profit activities.
'Aires' in the UK always has been, and always will be, a pipe dream.
So continue signing petitions, and complaining of course, but sadly nothing will change.
As they say...'Land is scarce and they are not making any more!'

userJohn52
Posted: 26 August 2020 9:23 AM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 


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EJB - 2020-08-26 9:07 AM

With nearly 3 times the area of land France can afford to use some of it for very low profit activities.
'Aires' in the UK always has been, and always will be, a pipe dream.
So continue signing petitions, and complaining of course, but sadly nothing will change.
As they say...'Land is scarce and they are not making any more!'



Just look at the side of the road in places like the Lake district and you see plenty of unused land that could be used.
The difference between France and England in this respect is political - in England planning decisions are given to local NIMBYs so nothing gets built unless it benefits them, or the Government wants it enough to over ride them.
userchas
Posted: 26 August 2020 9:44 AM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 
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Unfortunately, anything like that in GB would be infested by our many travelers we seem to accommodate with their notorious calling cards they leave behind.
userjumpstart
Posted: 26 August 2020 10:12 AM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 
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Curious to know ..what happens with travellers( the Romany kind) visiting Aires in France?
userrayc
Posted: 26 August 2020 10:20 AM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 
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jumpstart - 2020-08-26 10:12 AM

Curious to know ..what happens with travellers( the Romany kind) visiting Aires in France?


In the UK it would be a civil trespass matter. In France the aire comes under Police or Gendarme control for the purposes of operation within its licence. All aires are licenced by the local town council.

The authorities do provide large outside town traveller sites.
userTracker
Posted: 26 August 2020 11:15 AM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 


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chas - 2020-08-26 9:44 AM

Unfortunately, anything like that in GB would be infested by our many travelers we seem to accommodate with their notorious calling cards they leave behind.


Please do not pick on these victims of society who as a small and persecuted minority must be allowed to run free causing whatever damage, pollution, inconvenience and expense to the law abiding majority that they like without being held to account by any gutless and toothless authorities.

They have a lot to answer for in this country as does the government in not controlling their activities over decades of abuse or of finding them somewhere safe to stay at a reasonable cost to them.

Without this insult to decency the UK - like France - could have been a wonderful country to explore by Motorhome.
userNicepix
Posted: 26 August 2020 7:11 PM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 
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jumpstart - 2020-08-26 11:12 AM

Curious to know ..what happens with travellers( the Romany kind) visiting Aires in France?


They don't tend to use aires. Aires are specifically for camping-cars whereas the Romanians usually have caravans and it is an offence to park and use a caravan anywhere except for designated places such as camping sites and the 'gens de voyage' areas that some communities offer. That said there are some large gatherings such as the one in May in the Carmargue where thousands descend and literally park wherever they like for a few days. A bit like Appleby Horse Fair. Also, there seems to be more and more illegal camps being set up, but these only are tolerated for a short period before they are all moved on. Because of the problems caused by them leaving abandoned scrap cars and other rubbish behind the authorities seem to be a little more keen towards them these days. I passed a gathering yesterday in a field near to Lussac-les-Chateux and the Gendarmes were issuing them notice to quit before they had even got their caravans unhitched.
userspirou
Posted: 27 August 2020 4:45 AM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 


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Being naive the first time (somewere in Normandy) I found a large gathering of caravans and motorhomes in an empty field outside some village and thought it might be a festival of some sort. After driving around looking for an empty spot (was none) I also realized what it actually was. Second time (same trip) I found them here in Brittany as they were packing up to go: https://maps.app.goo.gl/seu3z8ocJudhHCsj8

They were running impressively long electric cables and water pipes to power everything from regular dishwashers, washing machines, fridges to high pressure washers. Unlike many music festival crowds around the world, you couldn't tell anyone was there once they packed up. Everything was cleaned up.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 27 August 2020 7:40 AM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 


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spirou - 2020-08-27 4:45 AM

...Unlike many music festival crowds around the world, you couldn't tell anyone was there once they packed up. Everything was cleaned up.


You were fortunate to have found this happen.

Communities in France over a certain population size (still 5000 I believe) are legally obliged to provide an “aire d’accueil” for itinerant travellers

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aire_d%27accueil_pour_les_Gens_du_voyage_en_France

but this certainly does not prevent camping-car ‘aires’ being used nor stop those aires being left in a mess when the travellers depart.

This is a recent article

https://www.ouest-france.fr/pays-de-la-loire/challans-85300/challans-des-gens-du-voyage-investissent-l-aire-de-camping-car-6871891

that (for non-francophones) reads as follows

For the second time in the space of a month, the motorhome area located on Boulevard Viaud-Grand-Marais has been taken over by around twenty caravans of travelers. The entrance gate was reportedly broken, prompting the immediate intervention of the mayor of Challans, he said that the assembly area on the route de Cholet was available.

The travelers did not respond to the mayor's recommendations, prompting the municipal police to intervene, and the establishment of legal proceedings.
For several years now, this motorhome area has been subject to unwanted arrivals, annoying some residents and the mayor who denounces these attitudes of travelers who act "as they wish”.
userJohn52
Posted: 27 August 2020 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 


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Tracker - 2020-08-26 11:15 AM

without being held to account by any gutless and toothless authorities.


How would you have them 'held to account'?
The fundamental problem you are ignoring is that if the council evict women and children they are legally responsible for rehousing them.
And with Englands housing crisis they have nowhere to put them.
userJohn52
Posted: 27 August 2020 8:34 AM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 


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Nicepix - 2020-08-26 7:11 PM
Appleby Horse Fair.


I've stopped in Appleby when the fair was on and everybody I met was nice and friendly.
But any large gathering like that attracts all sorts, and its the bad ones who make the news.
userian81
Posted: 27 August 2020 9:47 AM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 
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jumpstart - 2020-08-26 11:12 AM

Curious to know ..what happens with travellers( the Romany kind) visiting Aires in France?


France has a more civilised approach with provision for such folk: "Aires pour Gens de Voyage" (see https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gens_du_voyage )

Sadly the UK approach to both travellers and motorhomers is to harass and ban in most cases.

Sensible regulation is needed. For example when place get expolited instead of a ban why not impose and enforce a 48 / 72 limit.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 27 August 2020 11:53 AM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 


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France has historic legislation (see the "Les Lois Besson” section in the Wikipedia entry and the links within it) regarding accommodation for ‘nomads’ that the UK does not have, but that doesn’t mean that such sites are not present in the UK.

Link

As the size of French townships has increased, so has the opposition to the 5000 population threshold. An itinerant workforce used to be vital for French agriculture, but (as in the UK) mechanisation has largely removed that need. French townships do not want to have to set up permanent gens du voyage sites any more than UK townships want gypsy/traveller sites near them. And - in both countries - if ‘travellers’ illegally occupy parking areas, it goes down badly with the local community who must deal with any mess/damage that results.

These links may be of interest

https://www.burnham-on-sea.com/news/council-takes-action-to-move-travellers-from-burnhams-pier-street-coach-park/

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/crime/police-called-after-reports-threats-made-supermarket-staff-after-another-travellers-camp-set-northampton-2952415

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/gloucester-news/travellers-move-onto-car-park-4446837

https://www.herefordtimes.com/news/18472091.travellers-pitch-hereford-car-park-light-fire/

https://www.qualitybailiffs.co.uk/news/trespassers/travelling-trespassers.html

https://ableinvestigations.com/dealing-with-travellers-in-car-parks/

userNicepix
Posted: 27 August 2020 1:47 PM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 
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ian81 - 2020-08-27 10:47 AM

jumpstart - 2020-08-26 11:12 AM

Curious to know ..what happens with travellers( the Romany kind) visiting Aires in France?


France has a more civilised approach with provision for such folk: "Aires pour Gens de Voyage" (see https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gens_du_voyage )

Sadly the UK approach to both travellers and motorhomers is to harass and ban in most cases.

Sensible regulation is needed. For example when place get expolited instead of a ban why not impose and enforce a 48 / 72 limit.

The UK also has municipal camp sites specifically for travellers. And as in France it is the illegal sites that are the root of our problems with abandoned scrap vehicles and other mess left behind when they have gone. On the official Gens de Voyage sites they pay a very small rent and are obliged to keep the area fairly tidy.

There is a growing problem with mainly Romanian people buying small derelict farm land and establishing a multi caravan site with no provisions for sanitation. Also, many are taking advantage of the welfare system and renting houses at 90% subsidies plus living allowances and living part of the time in the house and the rest of the time in their caravan. These people do not contribute to the labour market. Sadly France like the UK is being seen as a soft touch for people who have no intention of paying their way through life.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 27 August 2020 3:19 PM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 


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Recent traveller-related statistical data for England, Scotland and Wales here

Link to Gov.UK

https://www.gov.scot/publications/gypsy-traveller-sites-scotland/pages/4/

https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2019-04/gypsy-and-traveller-caravan-count-january-2019-587.pdf

(Link shortened - keithl)
usernoble1
Posted: 27 August 2020 6:47 PM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 
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I heard of one council who waned the gypsies of their intention to check their diesel in their transits and flat bed trucks - with a warning that any found to have red diesel would be impounded - the site cleared quickly
userNicepix
Posted: 27 August 2020 8:21 PM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 
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noble1 - 2020-08-27 7:47 PM

I heard of one council who waned the gypsies of their intention to check their diesel in their transits and flat bed trucks - with a warning that any found to have red diesel would be impounded - the site cleared quickly


I learned a similar trick from an old fashioned police sergeant. A few years later I came across a site being set up at the back of the B&Q at Rotherham so I drove in and asked to speak to the head man. I told him that the Superintendent had asked me to call and let them know that there would be a welcome party come down to the site the next day. There would be people from the education authority to help get the children registered at school, the DSS would be down to assist with any claims and as we were having a stolen vehicles awareness campaign some officers would come down and explain what to look for on vehicles and caravans to avoid buying a stolen one. It was all a pack of lies but they had gone the next day.

If the police senior officers followed their own ACPO policy of treating everyone the same there wouldn't be a problem.
useraandy
Posted: 28 August 2020 8:44 AM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 
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Sounds like an effective use of what a former colleague (a retired Met PC) used to call the Ways and Means Act.
userTracker
Posted: 28 August 2020 10:40 AM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 


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aandy - 2020-08-28 8:44 AM

Sounds like an effective use of what a former colleague (a retired Met PC) used to call the Ways and Means Act.


I had forgotten about the Ways and Means Act - I had a very good friend - a retired chief inspector of Police and he too had 'ways and means' of dealing with this dross when they dared venture onto 'his patch' - just as long as he did not know about it at the time!!

But in today's social climate in the UK where perpetrators are seen as victims who deserve sympathy and victims seen as whingers who deserve no sympathy from the do gooders and the media I doubt it would work?

Which is why we have no Aires network in the UK - Simples!
userrobertandjean
Posted: 28 August 2020 4:52 PM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 
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We seem to have gone a bit of track here, not sure that possibility of travelllers taking over Aires is why no Aires in UK , think might be more to do with vested interests of campsites and clubs. But back to Aires in France that we are staying on and would recommend. Last couple of nights we were at Broglie; this Aire charges just under 7€/night, for very well spaced out and set out pitches in a nice parkland setting a short walk from a nice town with an interesting aquatic garden. The fee includes water and dump plus 2 electric hook up points, also free, not time limited and 16amp, so arrive in good time for one of these (we arrived mid afternoon and were first van that day so had hook up for all our stay). Now at Rugles, an Aire again on edge of an interesting town with usual facilities; this is a free Aire in two parts. The original section consists of 3 marked spaces in part of a car park. The new section takes 6 vans in an area just for motorhome with nice view over parkland and free electric hook up included!
To link to other comments there are a small group of travelers in the vicinity, but not on the Aire but on some land further down road so no problem.
userJohn52
Posted: 29 August 2020 6:47 AM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 


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Tracker - 2020-08-28 10:40 AM


But in today's social climate in the UK where perpetrators are seen as victims who deserve sympathy and victims seen as whingers who deserve no sympathy from the do gooders and the media



.... Ian Huntley gets his own jacuzzi and a gym in jail....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI&t=14s
userNicepix
Posted: 29 August 2020 7:46 AM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 
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robertandjean - 2020-08-28 5:52 PM

We seem to have gone a bit of track here, not sure that possibility of travelllers taking over Aires is why no Aires in UK , think might be more to do with vested interests of campsites and clubs. But back to Aires in France that we are staying on and would recommend. Last couple of nights we were at Broglie; this Aire charges just under 7€/night, for very well spaced out and set out pitches in a nice parkland setting a short walk from a nice town with an interesting aquatic garden. The fee includes water and dump plus 2 electric hook up points, also free, not time limited and 16amp, so arrive in good time for one of these (we arrived mid afternoon and were first van that day so had hook up for all our stay). Now at Rugles, an Aire again on edge of an interesting town with usual facilities; this is a free Aire in two parts. The original section consists of 3 marked spaces in part of a car park. The new section takes 6 vans in an area just for motorhome with nice view over parkland and free electric hook up included!
To link to other comments there are a small group of travelers in the vicinity, but not on the Aire but on some land further down road so no problem.


The comments about travellers ruining aires is valid as regards UK locations where it is more likely to happen and therefore deters communities from opening such amenities. Another reason is the difference in social behaviour of the public. You will have noticed that in France there are many aires, picnic spots and amenities that are not vandalised or blighted with graffiti and litter. Hire craft can be safely left out over the closed season and remain untouched. Picnic tables are not seen as a challenge for destruction as they are in the UK. Except in the larger towns and cities you don't get off-road motorbikes tearing up the footpaths and chemins. The whole mentality is different.

There will never be aires in the UK as there are in other parts of Europe simply because the society is different and is still heading in the wrong direction.

Edited by Nicepix 2020-08-29 7:47 AM
userrobertandjean
Posted: 31 August 2020 3:54 PM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 
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Another gem, This time Harcourt west of Evreux, again a motorhome only area, an old tennis court, certainly not a car park! All services and staying for night are free including electric hook up, although only one point, shared yesterday on own at moment. Easy walk to lovely old town and chateau.
Regarding travellers at Rugles then left without leaving any sign had ever been.
Decided best not to worry about trying for Aires in U.K., will just continue coming France, as have done for many years, where we Motorhomers are made welcome.
userNicepix
Posted: 31 August 2020 8:13 PM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 
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I would guess that you are not finding these aires by accident so well done on your research.
userrael
Posted: 1 September 2020 10:51 AM
Subject: RE: No Whaire like this in UK
 


If anyone is going to Italy then there are some free places scattered around. We found this one on our way to Ancona last year.

www.campercontact.com/en/italy/marche-an-ap-mc-pu/corinaldo/29886/coricamper



Edited by rael 2020-09-01 10:52 AM
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