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Number Plate Stickers
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userKeithl
Posted: 9 January 2021 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: Number Plate Stickers
 


Lord of the posts

Posts: 5698
5000500100252525
Location: Birmingham. 2004 Auto-Trail Cheyenne Mercedes 313.


gassygassy - 2021-01-07 10:04 PM

I have just been to get a number plate for my trailer. After looking on ebay for the cheapest which was £8.99 +£2 if you want a black border!) I had to take my car for some wheel balancing. I aksed the guy where I could get a number plate locally. I had my V5 with me. In the same industrial estate there was a MOT place that did number plates so I hopped over the road and got one done. I was very impressed, (sic) the plate was aluminium with the characters embossed / pressed into it. £10 (including a black border!) which I was pleased with compared to the plastic £9 ebay offerings.

Andrew,

I have to ask, is this pressed aluminium plate legal? It has to carry the BS AU145e marking to be legal.

From all the info I can find they are only legal on pre 1972 cars. eg...

https://www.nationalnumbers.co.uk/blog/2015/12/legal-pressed-plates.html

Keith.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 9 January 2021 3:06 PM
Subject: RE: Number Plate Stickers
 


50005000500020001000500100100252525
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


gassygassy - 2021-01-08 5:05 PM
Brian Kirby - 2021-01-08 11:59 AM
gassygassy - 2021-01-07 10:04 PM..................... .
The new plate has the blue section to the left side, with GB at the bottom. .....................................

Andrew, could you post the location name and/or contact details of this firm. I'd like to give them a ring. Thanks.

Hi Brian, their phone is 01788 569640 and www is https://www.rugbymot.com/
Are you going to get one/some? I don't know where you are - can you get there? I don't know if they post number plates. If they don't then I am sure we can arrange something.

Thanks for that Andrew, and apologies for late acknowledgement. I'll give him a ring. No, I'm in east Sussex, so not near Rugby, but whatever press he is using for the aly. plates is likely to be a standard item, so I was going to ask if he'd tell me what the press is, and ask if he knew where others might be installed. There must be quite a few around as someone is supplying the pre-painted aluminium international style plates for them. Thanks again.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 9 January 2021 3:48 PM
Subject: RE: Number Plate Stickers
 


500050005000200020005001001001002525
Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Keithl - 2021-01-09 12:00 PM

I have to ask, is this pressed aluminium plate legal? It has to carry the BS AU145e marking to be legal.

From all the info I can find they are only legal on pre 1972 cars. eg...

https://www.nationalnumbers.co.uk/blog/2015/12/legal-pressed-plates.html

Keith.

You’ll see that - in my posting of January 2021 7:54 AM above - I provided your link to the nationalnumbers.co.uk blog as an example of how there used to be doubt about the legality of ‘metal’ number plates for use on modern vehicles.

The follow-up link I gave

https://www.number1plates.com/plate-type/pressed-metal-number-plates/

mentions pressed metal plates and the BS AU 145d standard (more details here)

https://www.bnma.org/advice-centre/key-pieces-of-legislation/british-standard-bs-au-145d/

As you have said, to be UK legal (whatever the number plate is made of) it must carry a British Standard number, plus other marks. This link

https://www.jepsonandco.com/legislation/your-responsibilities-as-a-supplier/

advises

The British Standard

All number plates must conform with the British Standard. By law, each number plate must be marked with the following information:

- The British Standard number (currently BS AU 145d)
- The name or trade mark of the manufacturer or component supplier (Ours reads JEPSON)
- Name and postcode of the supplying outlet. That’s your company trading name and postcode, which must match the address registered with the Register of Number Plate Suppliers at DVLA

Logos, images, telephone numbers and websites cannot be displayed on a physical number plate. It is also an offence to alter or rearrange the digits on a number plate. The registration must read exactly how it has been issued on the customers V5C. If a vehicle is displaying an illegal number plate, it may fail an MOT test.


(The plastic number plates of my car and motorhome all carry the BS AU 145d marking and the motorhome’s plates have “Jepson” on them.)
userKeithl
Posted: 9 January 2021 5:02 PM
Subject: RE: Number Plate Stickers
 


Lord of the posts

Posts: 5698
5000500100252525
Location: Birmingham. 2004 Auto-Trail Cheyenne Mercedes 313.


Derek Uzzell - 2021-01-09 3:48 PM

You’ll see that - in my posting of January 2021 7:54 AM above - I provided your link to the nationalnumbers.co.uk blog as an example of how there used to be doubt about the legality of ‘metal’ number plates for use on modern vehicles.

Sorry Derek, I missed that bit in the middle of the discussion on GB stickers
usergassygassy
Posted: 9 January 2021 6:17 PM
Subject: RE: Number Plate Stickers
 
Having a look around

Posts: 38
25
Location: 2009 Hobby Siesta 600 Exclusive T600 FC


I've checked and the plate I got has all those things.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 19 January 2021 12:20 PM
Subject: RE: Number Plate Stickers
 


50005000500020001000500100100252525
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


A sort of update. Because this had become somewhat convoluted, I e-mailed the DVLA as follows (actual registration number omitted):

"The above vehicle is fitted with "Euro" number plates carrying both the 12 star EU flag and the "GB" National Identifier. These plates are no longer legal outside the UK.

I wish to obtain replacement plates incorporating the GB identifier but with no Union Flag "badge". I understand this is legal both within and outside the UK, and additionally complies fully with the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic 1968, (as amended) Annex 3, "Distinguishing Sign of Motor Vehicles and Trailers in International Traffic", 3, (a) and (b).

I note that in your publication INF104 (11/20) you state (P11, "08 National flags on number plates") - "Following the UK’s exit from the EU, it is recommended that you display a GB sticker on the rear of your vehicle, irrespective of whether you currently have a number plate which includes the GB identifier."

Could you please explain the reason for this advice, as the addition of a separate sticker to an already compliant (as I read the above Convention Annex 3) is fully legal in all signatory states, including the UK, which ratified the Convention in 1968, and the EEC which adopted the Convention under Council Regulation (EC) No 2411/98 in November 1998?

If this advice is merely intended to cater for UK registered vehicles driven in states that are not Contracting Parties to the Vienna Convention, this could be stated.


They replied as follows (my bold):

"Dear Mr Kirby,

Thank you for your enquiry received on 9/1/2021.
Your case reference number is ----.

I apologise for the delay in our response. We are currently experiencing a high volume of enquiries.

A GB sticker should be displayed on the rear of the vehicle when travelling abroad but those vehicles which have both the letters “GB” and the Union Flag on their number plate do not need to display a separate GB sticker when travelling in the EU unless they are travelling to Spain, Malta or Cyprus.

UK legislation does not permit the display of the arrangement of letters to be displayed without one of the permitted national flags. Further details about this can be found at https://www.gov.uk/displaying-number-plates/flags-symbols-and-identifiers.

I trust this is of assistance to you.
.......................................
Best Regards"


Following their link above, you will find this (again, my bold)

"Travelling in Europe

You do not need a GB sticker if your number plate includes the GB identifier on its own or with the Union flag. But you will need to display a GB sticker clearly on the rear of your vehicle if your number plate has any of the following:

a Euro symbol
a national flag of England, Scotland or Wales
numbers and letters only - no flag or identifier

If you’re in Spain, Cyprus or Malta, you must display a GB sticker no matter what is on your number plate.
"

So, although the UK has signed up to the Vienna Convention on International Traffic (in effect, an international treaty), which legalises number plates without a national "badge" (the Union Flag), when specifying the various forms of number plate which may be used on UK registered vehicles it omitted the variant without the national "badge", so rendering that variant illegal on UK registered vehicles, but then advises that this variant is legal for use when outside the UK.

So I've now replied back asking if they can please clarify the contradiction. I'll post again when I get their reply, but in the meantime I have no idea where this leaves Andrew's "GB only" trailer plates. But as things stand, from DVLA's reply, it seems he'll be OK if he can carry his trailer into Europe - and only then begin towing it - maybe!

Edited by Brian Kirby 2021-01-19 12:25 PM
usergassygassy
Posted: 19 January 2021 1:42 PM
Subject: RE: Number Plate Stickers
 
Having a look around

Posts: 38
25
Location: 2009 Hobby Siesta 600 Exclusive T600 FC


Oh gosh, aren't we all bored to death, having nothing better to do than discuss a GB sticker?
Surely we would all just go to amazon or ebay and buy a GB sticker and stick it on the back. If that was all that was stopping us from getting on a ferry the shops would be sold out of them. Personally if I was wandering around France I might suddenly take it into my head to go to Spain, and then I would need one anyway.
I'm having my jab later today following a cancellation by someone, my doctor phoned and offered it to me. Yippee!
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 19 January 2021 2:15 PM
Subject: RE: Number Plate Stickers
 


500050005000200020005001001001002525
Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


gassygassy - 2021-01-19 1:42 PM

Oh gosh, aren't we all bored to death, having nothing better to do than discuss a GB sticker?

I asked myself whether stir crazy participants on the Motorhome Matters forum were liikely to be more interested in ongoing in-depth discussion about the legality of UK registration-plates after 31 December 2020, or in a Volvo V70 car’s swirl flaps. I also wondered which subject would be more relevant to the Motorhome Matters forum.
usergassygassy
Posted: 19 January 2021 3:25 PM
Subject: RE: Number Plate Stickers
 
Having a look around

Posts: 38
25
Location: 2009 Hobby Siesta 600 Exclusive T600 FC


I shouldn't have mentioned the word Volvo, it would apply equally to Ford and Fiat motorhomes. My AutoSleeper Nuevo, Peugeot badged used a Ford engine and no doubt it had these flappy things.

Edited by gassygassy 2021-01-19 3:26 PM
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 19 January 2021 5:29 PM
Subject: RE: Number Plate Stickers
 


50005000500020001000500100100252525
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


gassygassy - 2021-01-19 1:42 PM
Oh gosh, aren't we all bored to death, having nothing better to do than discuss a GB sticker?
Surely we would all just go to amazon or ebay and buy a GB sticker and stick it on the back. If that was all that was stopping us from getting on a ferry the shops would be sold out of them. Personally if I was wandering around France I might suddenly take it into my head to go to Spain, and then I would need one anyway.
...............................

It's quite simple, really, Andrew. Our van is a very dark brown, so I'd like to avoid a separate GB sticker because the paint under the sticker will be unlikely to fade, whereas the rest of the van may well do so. So I'd end up with the ghost of the sticker, and wanted to avoid that.

That apart, I just like to know that the vehicle I'm driving, at home or abroad, is "street legal". I appreciate that others take a different approach, but my post was to inform those like me, who prefer to know where they stand. The others may read it, or ignore it, as they choose. There is no obligation to buy! Simples, as those annoying meercats tend to say.
userwitzend
Posted: 20 January 2021 5:44 PM
Subject: RE: Number Plate Stickers
 


Treasured contributor

Posts: 900
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Location: Cornwall


Brian Kirby - 2021-01-19 5:29 PM

It's quite simple, really, Andrew. Our van is a very dark brown, so I'd like to avoid a separate GB sticker because the paint under the sticker will be unlikely to fade,

Simples get a magnetic one an move it around
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 20 January 2021 5:50 PM
Subject: RE: Number Plate Stickers
 


50005000500020001000500100100252525
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


I know, but I'd sooner not have one at all.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 21 January 2021 8:00 AM
Subject: RE: Number Plate Stickers
 


500050005000200020005001001001002525
Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


A magnetic GB plate will be fine for Brian’s Knaus panel-van conversion that has steel rear doors, but not for ‘coachbuilt’ motorhomes where the rear body-panelling has an aluminium or GRP outer skin. One might think this is stating the bleeding obvious, but there are on-line complaints from car owners who were unaware of what their vehicle’s rear end/bumper was made of and only foumd out when the magnetic plate would not attach.

There are plenty of on-line adverts for inexpensive magnetic GB plates (example here)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FULLY-MAGNETIC-GB-STICKER-GREAT-BRITAIN-MAGNETIC-PLATE-BADGE-OVAL-TRAVEL-ABROAD-/131455399199#rwid

though reviews are not always positive.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/urw/Tech-Traders-Fully-Magnetic-GB-Sticker-Great-Britain-Plate-Badge-/product-reviews/1557460158?_itm=131455399199&sort=%2Brating

It’s also worth mentioning that there is a minimum size for a GB oval plate of 17.5cm (width) x 11.5cm (height). The plate in the above advert is described as "Oval Design (18 x 14cm Approx)” which should be OK size-wise, but some plates being marketed are significantly smaller than the legal minimum.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 29 January 2021 6:02 PM
Subject: RE: Number Plate Stickers
 


50005000500020001000500100100252525
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


Brian Kirby - 2021-01-19 12:20 PM................................................
So I've now replied back asking if they can please clarify the contradiction. I'll post again when I get their reply, but in the meantime I have no idea where this leaves Andrew's "GB only" trailer plates. ...................

And I've just received an e-mail reply to my further query to DVLA as above, which states (my bold):

"You do not need a GB sticker if your number plate includes the GB identifier on its own or with the Union flag. But you will need to display a GB sticker clearly on the rear of your vehicle if your number plate has any of the following:
•a Euro symbol
•a national flag of England, Scotland or Wales
•numbers and letters only - no flag or identifier
If you’re in Spain, Cyprus or Malta, you must display a GB sticker no matter what is on your number plate."

From which it seems number plates with the GB identifier on its own are "street legal" in UK, as well as abroad, and that Andrew's trailer plates are also street legal both sides of the ditch.
userwitzend
Posted: 29 January 2021 6:29 PM
Subject: RE: Number Plate Stickers
 


Treasured contributor

Posts: 900
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Location: Cornwall


Brian Kirby - 2021-01-29 6:02 PM
From which it seems number plates with the GB identifier on its own are "street legal" in UK, as well as abroad, and that Andrew's trailer plates are also street legal both sides of the ditch.

Which is what the first post in this thread said

witzend - 2021-01-02 11:32 AM

Secretary Grant Shapps tweeted that if you have GB on your number plate alongside a union flag (as opposed to an EU flag) then you won't need a sticker in most EU countries.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 29 January 2021 6:51 PM
Subject: RE: Number Plate Stickers
 


50005000500020001000500100100252525
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


witzend - 2021-01-29 6:29 PM

Brian Kirby - 2021-01-29 6:02 PM
From which it seems number plates with the GB identifier on its own are "street legal" in UK, as well as abroad, and that Andrew's trailer plates are also street legal both sides of the ditch.

Which is what the first post in this thread said

witzend - 2021-01-02 11:32 AM

Secretary Grant Shapps tweeted that if you have GB on your number plate alongside a union flag (as opposed to an EU flag) then you won't need a sticker in most EU countries.

Not quite: see bold above.
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