Oil Change

[niktam]

The MH went in for a service last year at 8500 miles(and the oil was changed) and now 12 months later the "change oil" warning has come on after only an additional 4500 miles? Do I assume the garage did not zero the service plan software properly at the last service?

There were no warnings last time anyway so if it is on the manual service plan mode does it flag at around 13,000 miles?

[colin]

Has your van got a fixed oil service? at 2017 I would have thought it had the sensor which decides the state of oil and flashes up the oil change light. Previous to this low mileages where considered severe and requiring annual oil change.

[witzend]

Have a look here https://tinyurl.com/yy3jbgu8

[rayc]

This Youtube video worked for me when I reset 'the miles to oil change' on my 2017 150bhp Ducato. On completion it had reset to approx 29000 miles.

[hallii]

12 month old oil regardless of mileage needs changing. For 12 months all the nasty acids, carbons, nitrides and lots more have been "chewing" the oil and degrading it. Cost of an oil change DIY is about £45, new engine cost £3000 / £4000.

 

[niktam]

hallii - 2020-12-09 5:23 PM

 

12 month old oil regardless of mileage needs changing. For 12 months all the nasty acids, carbons, nitrides and lots more have been "chewing" the oil and degrading it. Cost of an oil change DIY is about £45, new engine cost £3000 / £4000.

Fully agree but the query was why had the light come on?

[colin]

niktam - 2020-12-09 6:52 PM

 

hallii - 2020-12-09 5:23 PM

 

12 month old oil regardless of mileage needs changing. For 12 months all the nasty acids, carbons, nitrides and lots more have been "chewing" the oil and degrading it. Cost of an oil change DIY is about £45, new engine cost £3000 / £4000.

Fully agree but the query was why had the light come on?

Because the Fiat program recognised the conditions hallii had posted.

[rayc]

colin - 2020-12-09 7:22 PM

 

niktam - 2020-12-09 6:52 PM

 

hallii - 2020-12-09 5:23 PM

 

12 month old oil regardless of mileage needs changing. For 12 months all the nasty acids, carbons, nitrides and lots more have been "chewing" the oil and degrading it. Cost of an oil change DIY is about £45, new engine cost £3000 / £4000.

Fully agree but the query was why had the light come on?

Because the Fiat program recognised the conditions hallii had posted.

I don't believe the Fiat oil degradation detection is that sophisticated. The oil degradation counter should have been reset at the last service to the 28,000 mile interval. If the oil has actually degraded to such as extent that the warning message has appeared in 4500 miles it would suggest a major failure of the oil properties.

My bet is that the counter was not set initially to the correct interval and has not been reset at subsequent oil changes. This could be proven to be correct or not by connecting it to the examiner system and checking the oil change history, assuming it was done by a garage who would have connected the vehicle to the system.

On my 2017 Ducato there is no recommended mileage to change the oil and filter. It must be done at two yearly intervals or whenever the oil degradation message is shown if sooner.

[Robinhood]

niktam - 2020-12-09 6:52 PM

 

Fully agree but the query was why had the light come on?

The Fiat and the Peugeot engines are quite different. The 2017 Fiat recommended oil-change intervals are 2-years or when the check-light defines it should be changed due to degradation. I doubt many motorhomers would validly see the warning light before the two years is up (and of course, some change annually anyway).

 

I haven't got the Peugeot servicing requirements, though I suspect they may be subtly different. However, the only reasons for the "change oil" warning I can see is that either:

 

i) the Peugeot prescribed oil change intervals are "every 12 months", which I doubt (You say you had the oil changed 12 months ago - which would no doubt have been at 2 years?)

 

ii) the vehicle was serviced (and/or the oil service reset) at year 1, it then wasn't reset at year 2 with the last oil change, and you are now at a prescribed 2 year interval.

 

(One shouldn't overlook the obvious, which is that the oil has degraded within the year, and the warning is being set by degradation. This is quite unlikely, and doubly so given the coincidence of the interval being almost exactly a year after the last service - or, more understandably, 2 years after scenario 2 above.

 

If you believe either of the above scenarios, then the handbook contains a simple procedure to reset the light.

 

If you believe neither the above pertains, then for confidence you may wish to do an extra oil-change yourself and rest. If I were doing this and its in warranty (probably not), I'd buy oil and filter from a dealer as OE parts. Otherwise an OE filter and oil to the required spec.

[colin]

rayc - 2020-12-09 8:02 PM

 

colin - 2020-12-09 7:22 PM

 

niktam - 2020-12-09 6:52 PM

 

hallii - 2020-12-09 5:23 PM

 

12 month old oil regardless of mileage needs changing. For 12 months all the nasty acids, carbons, nitrides and lots more have been "chewing" the oil and degrading it. Cost of an oil change DIY is about £45, new engine cost £3000 / £4000.

Fully agree but the query was why had the light come on?

Because the Fiat program recognised the conditions hallii had posted.

I don't believe the Fiat oil degradation detection is that sophisticated. The oil degradation counter should have been reset at the last service to the 28,000 mile interval. If the oil has actually degraded to such as extent that the warning message has appeared in 4500 miles it would suggest a major failure of the oil properties.

My bet is that the counter was not set initially to the correct interval and has not been reset at subsequent oil changes. This could be proven to be correct or not by connecting it to the examiner system and checking the oil change history, assuming it was done by a garage who would have connected the vehicle to the system.

On my 2017 Ducato there is no recommended mileage to change the oil and filter. It must be done at two yearly intervals or whenever the oil degradation message is shown if sooner.

 

On the pre 'degradation counter' models, low mileage counted as a reason for annual oil change, why wouldn't this be programmed into the algorithms?

[Ninian]

Hi, If I was to do the Oil Change myself on my 2014 Ducato, to reset the milage counter is that done through the Mode button or is a OBD unit required. Thanks.

[Robinhood]

colin - 2020-12-09 9:56 PM

 

On the pre 'degradation counter' models, low mileage counted as a reason for annual oil change, why wouldn't this be programmed into the algorithms?

I'm not sure that was ever the case. I think the annual oil change was, and is largely predicated on largely (stop-start) in-city short mileage usage.

[Robinhood]

Ninian - 2020-12-09 10:04 PM

 

Hi, If I was to do the Oil Change myself on my 2014 Ducato, to reset the milage counter is that done through the Mode button or is a OBD unit required. Thanks.

I've assumed for quite some time that you would need a dedicated facility such as Multiecuscan, but as Rayc posted above there is a video on Youtube as to how to do it via the vehicle itself. It is for a 2018 Ducato, but there are posts that it works for earlier Fiat vehicles of a different model.

 

Can't guarantee, but I suspect it would work.

 

 

(There are two intervals on the Ducato, the Service Interval, and the Oil Service Interval; I'm not sure you can reset the Service Interval without tools/software (but there are views that it will reset after a given period of warnings anyway). The oil one is more critical, since if it is allowed to continue unreset the engine may/will go into limp mode).,

[Deneb]

Robinhood - 2020-12-09 10:20 PM

 

colin - 2020-12-09 9:56 PM

 

On the pre 'degradation counter' models, low mileage counted as a reason for annual oil change, why wouldn't this be programmed into the algorithms?

I'm not sure that was ever the case. I think the annual oil change was, and is largely predicated on largely (stop-start) in-city short mileage usage.

There were no algorithms on pre Euro 5 models, just a fixed time or mileage based counter. The Ducato owners' handbook is somewhat vague on heavy duty and low mileage usage, but the Iveco manual covering the identical F1A multijet engine that is also fitted in some Iveco vans as well as the Ducato, being a jointly developed engine, is more detailed:

 

"The engine oil must be replaced at maximum every 24 months. If the number of kilometres travelled over the year is very low, or in any case under 20,000 km/year, the engine oil and filter must be changed every 12 months.

The engine oil and filter may require replacement prior to the scheduled date if the vehicle use may require more frequent particle filter regeneration (on the vehicles equipped with such component). In this instance, the vehicle's computer will advise the need to carry out this extra plan operation."

[Derek Uzzell]

niktam - 2020-12-09 6:52 PM

 

hallii - 2020-12-09 5:23 PM

 

12 month old oil regardless of mileage needs changing. For 12 months all the nasty acids, carbons, nitrides and lots more have been "chewing" the oil and degrading it. Cost of an oil change DIY is about £45, new engine cost £3000 / £4000.

Fully agree but the query was why had the light come on?

You might want to read through this 2018 forum thread where Andrew Bromley was discussing his (then) recent Citroen Relay-based motorhome.

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Oil-Change-or-not-/48689/31/

[John52]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-12-10 8:11 AM

 

niktam - 2020-12-09 6:52 PM

 

hallii - 2020-12-09 5:23 PM

 

12 month old oil regardless of mileage needs changing. For 12 months all the nasty acids, carbons, nitrides and lots more have been "chewing" the oil and degrading it. Cost of an oil change DIY is about £45, new engine cost £3000 / £4000.

Fully agree but the query was why had the light come on?

You might want to read through this 2018 forum thread where Andrew Bromley was discussing his (then) recent Citroen Relay-based motorhome.

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Oil-Change-or-not-/48689/31/

That link doesn't work now Derek

It worked earlier, I posted this link on it,

https://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php

and then you told me off for reviving it because it was an old thread

Now it seems to have disappeared :-S

[Derek Uzzell]

That’s indeed the case.

 

Following my comment to you about your revival of the 2018 thread (and having frozen the thread to prevent further additions being made), Keithl posted to that thread (which he could do as a Moderator) pointing out that I had provided a link to it on this thread.

 

I posted back saying that, merely because I had provided a link to a 20-months-old thread, that was not an invitation to add to it, particularly as my posting of 10 December 2020 8:11 AM above mentioned it being 2018 vintage. Threads on these forums go back to 2006 and I regularly provide links to earlier discussions. If every old thread I provided a link to was ‘resurrected’, it would cause a lot of unnecessary confusion.

 

When I submitted my reply to Keith, the O&AL system ‘glitched’ with an error message, and now the 2018 thread has gone in its entirety and is unlikely to be recoverable. This is a pity as the 2018 thread was two pages long and contained a lot of useful technical information/advice from forum experts.

 

The Practical Caravan (PC) forums have a "Forum Tips & Best Practices?“ section that the O&AL forums lack. This includes the following advice

 

Check the date of the last post in a thread before replying. If the most recent post is more than 3 months old, create a new thread on the same topic. You can link to the previous thread as reference, but we want to avoid “necro” posts that attempt to resuscitate old threads.

 

The PC forums use the Xenforo platform that is much more up-to-date than the O&AL forums’ software. However, although there’s a “Motorhome Discussions” section in the PC forums, this is little used and of very limited value.

[niktam]

Many thanks for all the replies. To conclude:-

 

I hope that it is just a simple case of the dealer not resetting the oil change/service interval last time at 8000 miles when they serviced it.

 

If not and the system is not set on a mileage indicator basis but the user characteristics/load/usage option then that is a worry as the small mileage I've done this year has in my view not been of a stop start nature so the indicator has come on very early mileage wise.

 

As the TPMS appears to be of a non sophisticated/low cost complexity ( no self learning) then maybe that applies to the oil diagnostics as well?

 

The oil will be changed fairly soon and I'll make sure they reset the oil change and service interval!

 

[Hans]

Very good arguments to change every year. A good crankcase ventilation system is also important.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

niktam - 2020-12-10 6:28 PM

 

...The oil will be changed fairly soon and I'll make sure they reset the oil change and service interval!

It might be worth you looking at the SERVICE entry on the menu that’s accessed via the dashboard MODE button to see what mileages are recorded sor next service and next oil change.

 

The procedure is described (for a 2014 Ducato) on this Motorhomers forum thread and may be the same for a 2017 Boxer.

 

https://motorhomer.com/threads/peugeot-boxer-elddis-motorhome-change-oil-warning.38450/

[Robinhood]

..just as an addition, the Peugeot handbooks are (currently at least) readily downloadable from here:

 

http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com/APddb/

 

Choose your language and then the vehicle/version/year from the various dropdowns. (and, if necessary, once open in the on-line viewer, you can click the "PDF" button to download).

 

The "service checking" is similar to the Ducato via the "mode" button and subsequent menu navigation.

 

The oil change interval will, I suspect, take account of the degradation and/or interval, so given the warning light will probably of a low value.

 

I doubt there is any useful correlation between the oil service mileage and the general service mileage. On the Ducato for instance, these are two separate values in two separate ECUs and can be (should be at a full service) be reset independently of each other. (And even the Fiat "Professional" dealer I used didn't do that, didn't know that, and didn't know where the second value was located!).

[Steve928]

There seems to be a notable difference between how the Boxer and Ducato (or at least the ones I've owned) trigger the initial oil change warning.

 

When a Peugeot van or chassis cab is PDI'd the Diagbox software's 'Prepare Vehicle for Customer' routine writes the current date into the 'date of last oil change' field in the ECU. The clock starts ticking from then with the result that the alert can be triggered by elapsed time and not only by the oil change mileage down counter.

 

On my Ducato (base vehicle now 27 months old) the date of last oil change field hasn't been set and is blank so the first oil change warning will only be triggered by mileage (taking into account calculated oil degredation).

 

Of course the simple answer to the OP's initial query remains 'No, your garage did not zero the service plan properly at the last service'.

 

 

[John52]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-12-10 5:41 PM

Check the date of the last post in a thread before replying. If the most recent post is more than 3 months old, create a new thread on the same topic. You can link to the previous thread as reference, but we want to avoid “necro” posts that attempt to resuscitate old threads.

I'm not used to this.

On other forums, creating a new thread on the same topic is actively discouraged.

When you try to create a new thread on the Ducato forum, the software directs you to what it detects as similar threads, before asking you if you want to continue.

They say they want to avoid repetition, or members getting fed up of answering the same question on multiple threads, so the question goes unanswered on that thread.

I'm not saying their way is better.

Or that there is a right way and a wrong way.

Just that I'm not used to doing it this way :-S

 

PS: The old thread (now disappeared) had a question regarding whether 'Mobil' oil was suitable for extended drain

That question hadn't been answered

So I posted a link that gives the answer

https://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php