Peugeot Boxer 2017 engine cutting out and random errors

[steve_f]

Hi, I'm currently converting nearly 3 year old Peugeot Boxer which I bought in 2019. The conversion is nearly finished but there a problem causing the engine to cut out usually on the motorway with the engine management light coming on and random error messages displaying on the dashboard. I've booked it in at the Peugeot dealer as I can't pinpoint the issue myself but I'd really appreciate the opinions of this forum which seems to dispense excellent advice, so I'm prepared if they try to b*lls**t me!

 

These are the details:

Van purchased in Sept 19, 32,500miles on the clock. Driven 70 miles home no problems. Used on short journeys only, e.g. screwfix and back for the next few weeks. Not driven much over winter but was parked up on the drive while I started conversion work (insulation, windows, rooflights etc). Took it for a longer drive around end of Jan which involved motorway. Had been on the motorway about 5 miles (10-15 miles into the journey) when random errors started appearing on the dashboard (e.g. Hill Start Assist error, Parking brake error (I think) and some other errors.Engine then cut out completely. The dashboard also displayed a "Check Engine" message. I was arranging to be towed home so was on the roadside for about an hour. I tried the ignition again and it started (but it didn't restart when I tried it 30 mins earlier, it didn't even turn over). I was only 2 miles from home and it drove home without issue but with the engine management light on. A couple of days later the engine management light had gone out and there were no errors. I chanced driving it (again a short journey 5-6 miles round trip) and there were no issues. At this stage I thought it was maybe a result of standing too long over winter and maybe some damp in the electronics. I continued to use the van without issue for the next few weeks but only short non-motorway journeys with no issues. I then took another longer motorway journey to pick up supplies for the conversion and the same thing happened again after 10-15 miles with about 5 miles along the motorway - engine cut out random error messages warning lights all over the dashboard. Turn the key to try to restart the engine and nothing happens. This time the engine restarted after 15 minutes and, ironically, I was only 2 miles from home again in almost the same place the engine died a few weeks earlier. Then lockdown happened and the van wasn't moved off the drive for about 6 weeks but conversion work continued. I've been driving it for the last few weeks again just on short urban journeys with no issues at all. I was due to drive it over to Wakefield to get the fresh and waste tanks fitted tomorrow and was concerned that I hadn't been on the motorway since the last time I had the engine cut out in March. So last night I redid the the same journey when the engine first cut out, as a test drive. Guess what, the same thing happened in almost the same place! i.e. 10-15 miles in the the journey, 5 miles along the motorway, engine dies random warning lights - this time radiator temp warning and oil pressure warning (all fluids topped up by the way). This time the engine restarted immediately but engine warning light came on. I headed home but engine died twice on the return but restarted after a few minutes. Back on the drive last night, the engine management light has gone out and I took it for a short drive with no issues.

So, the problem only seems to occur when the engine has been running for a while e.g.engine warmed up, motorways speeds. Never had problems on shorter journeys, normal road speeds. Never have problems starting from cold. Engine always restarts after cooling down a bit, but sometimes won't restart immediately after cutting out. Lots or random errors from all different systems, there seems to be no pattern to this.

I did by a cheap ODB2 bluetooth dongle a few weeks ago and tried a apps to see if any error codes made sense to me. There is a current error code displaying (even though the engine managment light is off) which is U0140 Body control module (BCM) no communication. A bit of googling indicates that this is the electronic control unit for a lot of the van's (non-engine) based electrical systems (which might explain the random errors from various systems). So this points to an electrical / electronics issue, but what I can't understand is why the van drives fine on short journeys, but the engine cuts out and the engine management systems throw loads of errors once fully warmed up on a slightly longer journey. I've looked for damaged wiring around nearside of the engine bay which I've read is a hotspot for issues. I can't seen any damage though. The only other factor that might be at play is that each time I've made a longer/motorway journey it's been preceded by very wet weather, so possible water is getting in somewhere - but that's just speculation on my part.

 

Anyway, I'm going to give the above summary to the Peugeot dealer but would really appreciate some expert opinion beforehand. Thanks in advance.

 

Steve

 

[colin]

My first bit of advice on this type of thing is check the air filter for mice. If found check inlet up to air mass valve. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.

 

p.s. might be worth checking up to air mass valve anyway in case a previous user has missed the mice when replacing filter.

[Derek Uzzell]

steve_f - 2020-06-18 9:20 AM

 

...I've looked for damaged wiring around nearside of the engine bay which I've read is a hotspot for issues. I can't seen any damage though. The only other factor that might be at play is that each time I've made a longer/motorway journey it's been preceded by very wet weather, so possible water is getting in somewhere - but that's just speculation on my part....

 

Steve

 

A 2017 Peugeot Boxer shoud have been built on an ‘X290’ base that has a frontal appearance as shown on the attached photo below.

 

As far as I’m aware, damaged wiring in the engine-bay was a well-reported problem with ‘X250’ models that ceased to be built in mid-2014. Similarly, athough rainwater ingress into the engine-bay was a bugbear of X250 models (Peugeot, Fiat and Citroen) it has not proved to be so with X290s.

 

As Colin says, take the top off the air-box and check the condition of the air filter and whether any vermin might have managed to get in and caused damage or might still be lurking (dead) in the air trunking. (Mentioned in these links.)

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Air-filter-housing-damaged/48318/

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Whale-water-heater/50299/

 

Hopefully the Peugeot agent will be able to diagnose the cause.

[mikefitz]

With a 3 year warranty on Peugeot UK vans, the dealership should be able to fix things at no cost to you. It sounds like an intermittent electrical problem. You could check the security of connections to the engine battery, the quick release negative and the security of the connections and fuses on the positive post. The earth strap from gearbox to chassis can degrade giving odd problems, although unusual on a young van.

There was a recall for a faulty ignition switch that may have been missed.

low cost code readers are unlikely to be able to communicate to all the electronic modules in the van.

Hopefully the Peugeot technician using dealer diagnostic systems will be able to 'home in' on the problem.

 

Mike

[BIFFO]

I’d check the earth strap. Safe driving. ??

[Derek Uzzell]

Steve

 

The ‘earth strap’ BIFFO mentions is the braided cable that (on a Fiat Ducato X250/X290) connects the gearbox to the chassis on the left-hand side (UK nearside) of the engine compartment. I assume a Boxer X290 like yours has the same arrangement.

 

There is a photo of the original-equipment strap on this link

 

http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/earth-strap-problems.php

 

(This is a sort of panacea ploy, as received wisdom is that the state of the earth strap is not visibly obvious and that all sorts of odd problems can result if the earth strap is not in perfect condition. So - as a new strap is not expensive and replacement is quite easy to do - it’s suggested that (although it won’t guarantee to fix problems) replacement of the strap is a sensible measure to take initially as it just might provide a cure.)

[steve_f]

First of all thanks for all the replies so far, they'be been really helpful. I've checked the air filter; a new one was fitted last September and it still looks pristine. I'll add/change the earth strap as a preventive measure. It was raining here yesterday so I decided to investigate any water ingress into the engine compartment. Well, I can say that any idea that the windscreen scuttle/ water drainage issues have been fixed on the X290 models is nonsense at least if my van is anything to go off. On the nearside rainwater is clearly penetrating behind the scuttle and the foam piece that seems designed to divert the rain down the outlet drain tube doesn't seem fit for purpose. Water was pouring in from three or four points underneath the nearside area of the scuttle and around the foam piece and saturating all the sections of wiring loom in this area, splashing onto the fuse box and dripping on to a plastic shroud towards the bulkhead that I think maybe covering some components of the braking system. It looks a completely ineffective design to me. It may or may not be contributing to the electrical/engine cut-out issues, but either way it needs fixing, probably with a combination of sikaflex and black electricians tape as I've seen mentioned in other threads. I'll post further updates as I work through the issues.

[Derek Uzzell]

In this 2015 forum thread

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fiat-Ducato-scuttle-issue/38410/#M464050

 

I said

 

The X290 has a completely revised scuttle arrangement (with 3 large-diameter drain tubes) that was advertised at the X290’s launch as offering much improved protection against water entering the engine compartment. However, I believe basic watertightness still relies on the scuttle’s plastic moulding sealing properly against the windscreen. Time will tell...

 

My 2015 left-hand-drive Ducato seems to be OK. I can play a garden hose at maximum output on to its windscreen and no water penetrates through the windscreen/scuttle joint.

 

The X290’s rainwater-handling arrangement is definitely better than the X250’s, but it’s still a bit of a Heath Robinson set-up, particularly the moulded chunks of foam plastic on each side. It’s not difficult to imagine that, if the windscreen needed replacement, the windscreen/scuttle joint would have plenty of potential to leak afterwards, and the foam chunks certainly benefit from a touch of DIY sealant (I used Fernox LS-X). But, if the windscreen/scuttle joint is sound and the foam pieces are in good condition, the three large diameter rubber drain hoses (I stick a garden hose down each occasionally to ensure they aren’t blocked) can disperse a lot of water.

 

Che due palle - the vehicle was designed in Italy... ;-)

[steve_f]

I just thought I'd post an update to this ongoing issue, for the benefit of others in future and in case any experts see this and can offer further help.

 

The original problem from March of intermittent engine cutting out and seemingly random engine management codes is still occurring. I've been keeping diary of the issues to help with troubleshooting and here's a summary of that diary. I first noticed the van cutting out in March - full details in my first post, but due to lockdown and a backlog at the Peugeot dealership the van wasn't looked at by the dealer until 9th July. However, prior to this I called out an auto-electrician to try to expediate a solution. He used a professional looking "Snap On" scanner to read the diagnostic codes. He showed me an error the scanner screen which said "ecu internal fault". He quoted me £1500 for a new ECU and Body Control Module. I declined as the vehicle was under warranty and while I was happy to pay his call out charge in the hope of a quick fix, incurring a £1500 cost for something that should be a warranty issue wasn't an option.

So the van went in to Perrys on 9th July. I got a call from them later in the day asking to keep the van a bit longer to investigate. I was happy to do this as I didn't need the van for a few days. However, I chased after a week and no work had been done, I was told it would be taken for a test drive that day to log the diagnostics to try and capture the errors when they occurred. I chased a few days later and still nothing had been done. Again, I was told the work would be done urgently, so I waited a few more days (into the third week now) and chased again. The test drive still hadn't been done so I complained. The test-drive was completed that day. The test drive covered c40 miles and did not encounter any issues. The ecu received a software update and the van was also checked for a recall item. No other work was done. I then took the van for a 40 mile test drive to see for myself if the cutting out returned. It didn't so I was hopeful that after covering 80 miles in the last two days that the ECU reset and software update had resolved the issue.

 

It hadn't. I got the van back from the dealers at the end of July. I drove the van only on a few short journeys during August as I was still working on the conversion so it wasn't ready for any long journeys. On the 4th Sept the engine cut out after nine miles. I pulled over and the engine restarted first time. The engine management light came on. I was less than 100 metres from home fortunately, so I drove home, parked up and restarted the engine a few minutes later and the engine management light was off.

 

I booked the van back in to Perrys. Due to their backlog the earliest date available was 25th Sept.

 

I drove a few short journeys in the next three days (at quiet times on roads I know well where I know I could safely pull over) to see if the problem recurred. It did on 9th September, in similar circumstances to 4th, close to home after driving a round trip of c 9 miles. This time the engine didn't cut out but warning for Hill Holder unavailable and ESC unavailable were displayed.

 

I then did some basic checks as follows and bought an obd scanner to use the next time faults occurred. I removed the earth strap between the gearbox and chassis after testing the resistance between the two ends of the cable using a multi-meter. There was more resistance measured that I would have expected across a short section of braided steel but that might have been because I could get a clean connection with the multimeter probes, so I removed the cable and gave the ends a clean with a wire brush as well as the bolts and the mounting points to the gearbox and chassis to ensure a good clean connection. The resistance was tested on refitting the strap and was, as expected zero. I did this as a preventive measure to rule out any earthing issues that might be affecting the electrical signals to/from the ECU. (I have bought a spare earth strap and might fit this as well if needed). I checked the battery and the voltage was a bit low at 12.2v which was probably not unusual as the van hadn't been used much and hadn't had any long runs where it would get recharged, so I charged the battery overnight. Voltage after recharging was 12.5v. Voltage under light load (ignition on/engine not running),dropped to around 12v. This seem ok. I also checked the alternator output and the voltage across the battery terminals when the van was running and this was a consistent 14.1v, so I don't think the battery/alternator are any cause for concern.

 

13th Sept Engine stuttered but didn't cut out completely and warning for hill holder and ESC not available were displayed after driving van for 18 miles. Engine management light came on and stayed on. Plugged in the odb scanner to read the trouble codes. (Scanner used is in the glove box). The following errors were stored in obd:

U0140 - Lost Communication with Body Control Module,

P0500 - Vehicle Speed Sensor A,

U0315 - Software incompatibility with Anti-lock Brake System Control Module,

U0121 - Lost Communication with Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS) Control Module,

U1064 - Manufacturer control.

 

14th Sept, Started van in the morning but not driven. "Check engine" and MIL still displaying. Checked battery voltage which was good at 12.4v. Removed the near side headlight and had a thorough visual inspection of the wiring harness in this area. There seems to be more moisture in this area then I would expect and some of the wiring strapping was damp to touch. There was also significant wet/damp around the cable below what looks like the ABS pump. I dried the cable harness in this area as best as I could with a cloth and sprayed some WD40 to displace any remaining moisture. I also covered the area with a plastic sheet to prevent water splashing in this area.

 

15th Sept, Started van in the morning but not driven. "Check engine" and MIL no longer displaying.

 

25th Sept, Van was due to go in to Perrys today, but as my daughter has recently tested positive for Covid-19 I am self-isolating so have had to cancel the appointment. Waiting for the problem to reoccur before booking in again.

 

30th Sept Warranty was due to expire so as a precaution I've taken out an extra year's extended warranty.

 

October, van only used for short runs e.g. regular 6-8 mile round trips. No long journeys undertaken. Longest single journey before 28 October is was 15 miles. No issues with van until 28th.

 

I was getting slightly confident that the measures I took in September might have improved things and took the van on a longer run. First leg of the journey 25 miles was uneventful. Things were looking good. However on the return home after 24 miles, the engine cut out completely and multiple warnings were display on the dashboard, including a parking assist warning, an ABS warning, a temperature warning, but these didn't get saved so I'm not sure of the exact codes. The van wouldn't turn over initially when I tried to restart it, but after waiting couple of minutes and trying again it restarted. I carefully drove the last 1/2 mile home and parked on the drive. I turned the engine off and tried to restart it but it wouldn't. I plugged the scanner in and it couldn't receive a signal from the vehicle (first time that has happened). Also with the ignition on the reversing warning beep was sounding even though the van was not in reverse gear. This morning I tried to start the van and it started first time (it has never failed to start from cold). I plugged the scanner in and it found two codes: U0140 - Lost Communication with Body Control Module,U0073 Control Module Communication Bus Off.

 

I've rebooked the van into Perry's but the soonest appointment is 24th November due to Covid backog! Seven months after the problem first occurred I'm no nearer a resolution and the due to the nature of the problem the van is unsafe to drive.

 

I have to say I don’t have a great deal of confidence in the dealers but don’t feel I have much alternative at this stage. If I don’t get a resolution when it goes in to them in November I’m not sure what my options are. Any further suggestions would be appreciated. I’d also consider taking the van anywhere in the UK to a reputable Peugeot expert if I can find one, or if someone can recommend one.

 

 

[Steve928]

When doing a scan of ECUs using Multiecuscan, or when connecting to the ABC ECU, you also get the messages 'Hill holder unavailable' and 'ESC unavailable' appearing briefly - I presume this is because the ABS ECU is taken offline or out of communication with the module(s) that it normally communicates with. So it does suggest some kind of disturbance on one of the van's CAN buses.

 

As a very basic test disconnect the vehicle battery and wait 10 mins or so. Then measure the resistance between pins 6 and 14 (the C-CAN bus) of the OBD socket. Repeat for pins 1 and 9 (the B-CAN bus). You should measure 60ohms in both cases so anything else might indicate a continuity problem or extra resistance somewhere in the wiring.

 

 

[colin]

Couple of things to note.

Firstly, no resistance through the earth strap doesn't mean it is up to the job, this has been proved in the past, either replace the strap with a better strap or (as I did) add a second one.

Whilst you have probably got an electric fault, finding a clean air filter doesn't mean it hasn't previously had a mouse get through on the replaced filter.

[Derek Uzzell]

steve_f - 2020-10-29 11:04 AM

 

...I've rebooked the van into Perry's but the soonest appointment is 24th November due to Covid backog! Seven months after the problem first occurred I'm no nearer a resolution and the due to the nature of the problem the van is unsafe to drive.

 

I have to say I don’t have a great deal of confidence in the dealers but don’t feel I have much alternative at this stage. If I don’t get a resolution when it goes in to them in November I’m not sure what my options are. Any further suggestions would be appreciated. I’d also consider taking the van anywhere in the UK to a reputable Peugeot expert if I can find one, or if someone can recommend one.

 

As the problem is sporadic and sometimes seems capable of auto-correction, it’s probably not going to be easy to deliver it to Perry’s with the fault exhibiting itself.

 

A software upate shouldn’t really be expected to correct this sort of behaviour, nor should just clearing error codes after the problem has occurred. I would have thought the next step should involve replacement of the ECU and/or BCM - hopefully the extended warranty would cover the cost.

[steve_f]

Steve928 - 2020-10-29 11:38 AM

 

When doing a scan of ECUs using Multiecuscan, or when connecting to the ABC ECU, you also get the messages 'Hill holder unavailable' and 'ESC unavailable' appearing briefly - I presume this is because the ABS ECU is taken offline or out of communication with the module(s) that it normally communicates with. So it does suggest some kind of disturbance on one of the van's CAN buses.

 

As a very basic test disconnect the vehicle battery and wait 10 mins or so. Then measure the resistance between pins 6 and 14 (the C-CAN bus) of the OBD socket. Repeat for pins 1 and 9 (the B-CAN bus). You should measure 60ohms in both cases so anything else might indicate a continuity problem or extra resistance somewhere in the wiring.

 

 

Thanks for the reply. I've done this check and the reading across pins 6 and 14 is 62-65 ohms so I presume that's near enough to not be an issue, but there's no reading at all across pins 1 and 9.

[steve_f]

colin - 2020-10-29 1:39 PM

 

Couple of things to note.

Firstly, no resistance through the earth strap doesn't mean it is up to the job, this has been proved in the past, either replace the strap with a better strap or (as I did) add a second one.

Whilst you have probably got an electric fault, finding a clean air filter doesn't mean it hasn't previously had a mouse get through on the replaced filter.

 

Thanks Colin, I shall fit the spare earth strap as suggested.

[Steve928]

steve_f - 2020-10-29 3:14 PM

 

Steve928 - 2020-10-29 11:38 AM

 

When doing a scan of ECUs using Multiecuscan, or when connecting to the ABC ECU, you also get the messages 'Hill holder unavailable' and 'ESC unavailable' appearing briefly - I presume this is because the ABS ECU is taken offline or out of communication with the module(s) that it normally communicates with. So it does suggest some kind of disturbance on one of the van's CAN buses.

 

As a very basic test disconnect the vehicle battery and wait 10 mins or so. Then measure the resistance between pins 6 and 14 (the C-CAN bus) of the OBD socket. Repeat for pins 1 and 9 (the B-CAN bus). You should measure 60ohms in both cases so anything else might indicate a continuity problem or extra resistance somewhere in the wiring.

 

 

Thanks for the reply. I've done this check and the reading across pins 6 and 14 is 62-65 ohms so I presume that's near enough to not be an issue, but there's no reading at all across pins 1 and 9.

 

Sorry, I missed your reply.

 

62-65 ohms is fine for pins 6+14, the CAN bus specification states 50-70.

Perhaps I'm remembering wrongly about the other bus on pins 1+9; it's info I thought I remembered being given to help me test for a wiring issue years ago. But seeing as you've had error 'U0140 Body control module (BCM) no communication' and the BCM is on this bus then it might be worth following up (with someone who knows more than me..).

 

[steve_f]

This is an update on the ongoing problems with my Boxer campervan. Back in November I fitted an auxiliary earth strap, which didn't resolve the multiple warnings and engine cutting out. The van went into Perry's in December for another diagnosis. Another ecu software update was done but no root cause identified. It was suggested that the engine cutting out could be a fuel supply problem so the fuel filter was replaced, lightening me of £100.

 

The van didn't get used much then in the run up to Christmas which in hindsight was a mistake because a long test drive might have help identify the problem sooner. Unfortunately, in early Jan I contracted Covid and was housebound for the next four weeks. I was too ill to even turn the engine over on the van, so it stood idle for the whole of January. When I was well enough to drive again in early Feb the van wouldn't start due to a flat battery. To rule out a dodgy battery as in way responsible for the ongoing problems I fitted a brand new one of the same spec. Interestingly, while working on the battery I noticed a continuous current draw of c 0.4 amps, even with the ignition off. By my calculation this is enough to completely flatten a new battery in about 10 days, so no wonder the original one was flat after over a month parked up. If anyone knows whether 0.4 amps is typical for a residual current draw on these vans, I'd be interested to know what’s using it (surely the ecu's and radio don't need this much standby current?

 

Anyway, to address this I fitted a votronics trickle charger between the leisure battery and starter battery. The leisure battery is always full due to the solar panels and when the starter battery drops by more than 0.7 volts below the leisure battery, the trickle charger sends a few amps down to the starter battery to keep it topped up. It works great and was easy to fit.

 

I'm as confident as I can be the battery/earthing, etc are nothing to do with the original problems. I've been using the van regularly in February and March, but due to the stay local restrictions, all the journeys up to last week have been 5 miles or less. Many times there's no problem with the van but sometimes the various warnings - usually starting with Hill Holder unavailable, display, but often don't appear after restarting the van, and often no error codes are stored (according to my cheap OBD reader).

 

I read on a Fiat forum that Fiat 500 drivers getting the same kinds of problems that I've had with the van, have resolved them by replacing the brake light swich (I've not found anything about Boxers/Ducatos/Relays with this specific fix though). A switch is only £20 so I bought a Fiat oem part and it was easy to replace the existing switch behind the brake pedal. I didn't bother with the dealers even though the van is still under warranty. I thought it was worth it for a potential quick fix. I might have been a bit hasty though as you'll soon see.

 

The van drove fine for the rest of February and March and after 15 - 20 short journeys, no warnings appeared on the dash. Everything was looking good. Then last week, we had to make a longer journey to help a relative who was going into hospital. It was a 50 miles round trip and too good a chance not to give the van a longer run. Everything was fine until 22 miles into the journey, when the warnings started to appear - Hill Holder unavailable, ESC unavailable, etc, etc. Then the engine started to stutter and I noticed something I’d not noticed before. The revs indicator needle dropped to 0 before jumping back. The van kept going for the remaining three miles. We parked up four an hour, attended to our business and then headed home. Van seemed fine for about 15 miles, but on the motorway doing about 60 the warnings reappeared and the engine cut out. I rolled to a stop on the hard shoulder. We were about one mile from the exit and I knew there was hard shoulder all the way, so I tried to restart the van. It restarted first time and we drove carefully off the motorway. (BTW, I won't drive the van on a smart motorway until this problem is fixed). We had a further six miles to go, I asked my wife to record the dashboard so we could capture the problem in real-time which might help someone fix it. About two miles from home multiple warnings were displayed, the rev counter dropped to 0, the engine temp needle dropped to 0 then jumped to max, multiple other lights lit up on the dashboard and the engine cut out - and we got a recording of it.

The following day it was booked back into Perrys, but this time Nelson rather than Blackburn as Blackburn was booked up until mid-April.

The van is currently with them now, but they have done a test drive and seen the problem for themselves (unfortunately, when Perry's in Blackburn did a test drive, no problems occurred).

I've just spoken to them on the phone and they've been through over 30 errors logged by the various ecus, and said it looks like either a faulty brake light switch or faulty ABS unit. Now, I can be fairly confident that it's not the brake light switch, because I fitted a new one 6 weeks ago. I still have the old one, which I've stripped and which doesn't look faulty to me. I don't think the original brake light switch or the replacement are to blame, but understandably I guess, Perry's want to replace it anyway. It's a much cheaper fix than an ABS unit, so if I we're them I would replace that first to rule it out. Never mind, I can stand the £50 for the switch, providing the original problem doesn't hide away on the next test drive, which should then focus attention on the ABS ECU and we can get this issue fixed once and for all.

My only doubt is that when I replaced the switch, the van ran fine for multiple short journeys - appearing to be fixed before the problems started to reoccur. Could the work on the battery, replacing the switch cause some resetting of the ecus which masks the problem until the error logs get filled again? I don't know, just my speculation, but the van seems to behave for a while when it has had any work done (ecu updates/ error codes cleared/ battery disconnected, etc), before the problem comes back.

So, I expect I’ll be collecting the van on Wednesday, with the problem apparently fixed with a new brake light switch. Hopefully though the ABS warnings will show on the next test drive and not hide away for the next few weeks and the ABS unit will be replaced as well.

Otherwise, I will have no choice but to collect the van and drive it until I’m convinced it’s fixed. 100 miles should do it, which would 45 miles further than the furthest I’ve managed to drive it in the 18 months I’ve owned it! I’ll post an update later this week with the outcome.

 

[mikefitz]

"If anyone knows whether 0.4 amps is typical for a residual current draw on these vans"

 

The residual current is quite low once all the computers have shutdown. This takes some time once the doors and windows are closed and the ignition turned off. If you measure the current taken from the engine battery with no leisure system add on ( VSR/split charge relay, for example), it will drop to a low standby value, less than 0.010 amps, after two minutes. If the ignition has been on the time will increase to around 7 minutes before all the systems go to standby.

 

Your other issues point to ECU damage or problems with the loom or connections. Just blindly following fault codes may not solve the problem. You must be near running out of warranty time and need to get the problem sorted.

 

Mike

[steve_f]

Well looks like I was right. I picked the van up and took it for a 53 mile non-stop drive. All good. Did a few more shorter journeys taking the miles covered since the new brake light switch to over 100. No problems occurred. Parked up for few days, then did 7 miles on Saturday. No problems. But after 9 miles today, the same problems started happening all over again. Engine management light comes on, and Hill Holder unavailable message displays, then ESC unavailalble displays. It's a familar pattern by now. Anyway, the van is booked back in to Perrys in Nelson next Wednesday, where, if they are as good as their word, they will replace the ABS unit.

 

Regarding the warranty, I extended it until Sept 21, so should get this fixed before then. I've paid over £250 for the unnecessary work on the fuel filter and brake light switch work, as well as £250 for the extended warranty. I'm hoping the ABS will be replaced under warranty.

 

I'll post an update next week.

[steve_f]

Thanks mikefitz. I agree - wiring or ECU damage, As the messages all relate to Hill Holder and ESC (these aren't just warning the Hill Holder does cease to function - I've not tested the ESC!). The obvious candidate is the ABS ecu so I'm optimistic the Perrys are narrowing in on the fix. The wiring has had multiple inspections with no issues found, which although doesn't rule it out, probably makes it less like likely than the ABS ecu or another ECU. I'm hoping the dealer/Peugeot have run out of wriggle room now and deal with it under waranty.

 

Regarding the current draw, to be honest I've not tested it after leaving it a while for all systems to shut down, so I'll give that a try.

 

Steve

[Camlyn]

How did you get on with this Steve?

 

I could have exactly the same issue, having been recovered from a live lane of the M27 yesterday, with my wife and dog!

 

I bought a 2016 Autocruise Alto which is a Peugeot Boxer conversion, and which only has 14500 miles on the clock. I bought it in April as soon as everything started opening up again and I could travel. I've driven it from Newton Abbott to Brixham and back and done a couple of local trips no more than 60 miles radius from my home in the Midlands. We went to the south coast on Saturday and set off from Netley to Bournemouth yesterday and ended up in a busy M27 inside lane with no hard shoulder, so got a free recovery fairly quickly to services a few miles up the road.

 

I got the same error 'Hill support unavailable, check the manual' and an ESC error and the skidding car warning light pop up. I lost power and tried changing through the gears to see if I could limp it to get off the motorway, but ground to a halt quickly. I tried restarting and seeing if it would move again, but had to get out into the rain fairly quickly given how busy the motorway was.

 

When the AA came out there was no warning light/message, but I did have an oil pressure line of text come up on the instrument panel and what looked like four or five dots/balls. I didn't clock this as an error, but wondered if it was just a start up message that I hadn't noticed before, given that the van is new to me.

 

The AA guy came out and did his diagnostics and got a PO524 error message, which is related to oil pressure.

 

He said the issue could be for a number of reasons, none of which he could fix on the roadside. While I was waiting for him I'd been able to start the engine and put it into gear and move the van no problem, but we both agreed that the M27 probably wasn't the best place to do a road test.

 

After a 5 hour wait, the AA recovered us back to the midlands and I drove it from the top of our close down onto the drive, without issue or warning lights.

 

I'm currently waiting for the caravan centre that I bought it from to call me back so that I can exercise my right to a 12-month warranty promised with the sale (i hope).

 

Yours is the only other example that I could find in forums, where the experience matched my own, and I'd love to hear that you have a resolution that I can reference in my upcoming conversations so that I can get this resolved and coax a traumatised wife and dog back out on the road again!

 

Paul

[steve_f]

Hi Paul,

That does indeed sound very similar to the issues I've had. Since my last post a few things have happened so probably worth an update. I booked the van back into the dealers in April as the problem hadn't been resolved. They diagnosed a faulty ABS ECU and one was ordered, but the lead time was several weeks. No problem at that stage as I was assured it would be sorted before a planned trip to Scotland for two weeks on 15th May. Anyway, the part was delayed with a new date of 1st June. This was a major problem for the planned Scotland trip, which we assumed we'd have to cancel. However, my wife's leave isn't easy to change at short notice, so as we were going to have the time off anyway, we decided to take a risk on the trip. I knew that between home and Scotland the M6/M74 have hard shoulders all the way, so should the engine cut -out we could safely pull off. We decided to see how far we could get reasoning that if the engine died and could not be restarted then the intermittent fault would no longer be intermittent and so would more or less guarantee a diagnosis (I'm still not 100% convinced it's been diagnosed correctly) but if the engine did restart - as it always has - we could continue by planning an appropriate "safe" route. Also, it would also be good to give the van a proper road test other than the 10-20 mile trips I've been limited too recently. We deliberately set off in the evening so the motorway would be quiet and came off at Moffat to overnight after driving over 100 miles without any problems. This is the furthest journey the van had done without warning lights or engine cutting out in over a year. It’s worth pointing out that the motorway was so quiet that between Preston and Moffat I covered 100 miles without touching the brakes (the hill-holder / ESC warnings often come on during braking). The following day, we drove toward Edinburgh. After 60 miles the hill-holder, etc warnings came on, but disappeared after restarting the engine. There were no other problems that day, and we continued to Aviemore. This was when I was at my most nervous as the A9 has few lay bays, but ironically the current roadworks meant that long sections were at low speed which suited me in the circumstances. We continued north the following day without issue. We toured Orkney for four days and then headed across the north and down the west coast of Scotland all without any problems. We'd covered about 800 miles in total and more than 500 since the last problem and had begun to think van was cured. How wrong we were! We'd reached Loch Carron and decided to drive to Applecross over the famous Bealach na Ba. This road is single track, steep and with hairpin bends - not somewhere where you want to break down, which of course we did, about half-way up! This time the warnings and the engine stuttering happened simultaneously, but I reached a passing place before the engine died completely. I'm used to the routine now...wait a while and the engine will restart, which it did after 15 minutes – as usual prior to restarting, turning the key in the ignition causes no response – i.e. no engine turnover, so seemingly there’s no power reaching the starter motor – cut off by the ECU? We abandoned the idea of driving to Applecross but still had to continue to the summit in order to turn round - at least it was downhill all the way on the return which we did after waiting for the surprisingly busy road to become much quieter. We nervously drove south and overnighted on Skye - a little closer to civilisation should the van let us down completely. However, it didn't and a few days later we drove home with no further problems.

The dealers had phoned before we got home to tell me that the ABS ECU had arrived, so the van was dropped off with them on May 27th. I was told it would be ready the following day. However, they called to say they were having “technical problems” getting the system to reset (or words to that effect) and had raised a ticket with Peugeot. Apparently, it took the Peugeot technicians another week of head scratching to get the problem “fixed” – I didn’t get a clear explanation of what the problem was and how it was resolved. I picked the van up last week and we are heading up to Scotland again this weekend for another road test. In the few short journeys I’ve made in the last few days there haven’t been any problems but the truth is, I’m not 100% confident it is fixed. I hope it is, but I’ve lost confidence in the van. I still won’t drive it on a smart-motorway (so can’t go south in it!) and pick routes that minimise the risks to our safety should it break down. I’ll know more after next week when it’s been round Scotland again, but I now know that it can go hundreds of miles and seem perfectly fine before the problems recur. whereas previously I could guarantee it would happen within 10 or 20 miles, (see earlier in the thread for more details). Weirdly, the more it’s driven, the less frequently the problem occurs – is this a clue?

So maybe it is fixed, maybe it isn’t – it’s impossible to know given the circumstances. I’ll post an update in a couple of weeks after the next Scotland trip which hopefully will be to report that the problem does indeed seem to have been fixed – but I’m not holding my breath.

All I can say Paul is good luck if you do in fact have the same problem and I hope this information and the earlier posts I’ve made are of some help.

 

Regards

 

Steve

[Camlyn]

Steve

 

Thank you for your update. This post is the only information that I could find that got anywhere near describing my experience, so yes it is immensely helpful.

 

The dealer I bought the van from has been true to their word and hasn't quibbled about paying for any repair work, so I have it booked in next Wednesday for a diagnostics visit to the Peugeot main dealer near me. I'l certainly use the information that you have shared and mention it when I drop it off. They'll love the fact that an amateur is coaching them I'm sure ;-)

 

It would be great to hear back how you get on and I'll be sure to post after my visit on the 30/6 with an update about my van.

 

Paul

[Camlyn]

Steve

 

I did DM you but it didn't look like it had sent.

 

I've taken my van to the local Peugeot garage and they have run a diagnostic check on it. As I suspected they found nothing and didn't seem keen on keeping it to look a little harder.

 

Out of interest, what garage did you use? If your issue turns out to be resolved, it may be worth me bringing it up to the garage that you used!

 

From my conversation, my garage didn't seem interested in comparing with someone else's fault but will no doubt want me to go back and forth as my issue evolves so that they can repeat the whole unnecessary process that you have been through.

 

They may be right. It may have been a one-off, but our experiences are too similar for that i think.

 

Paul

[Derek Uzzell]

Camlyn - 2021-06-30 4:38 PM

 

Steve

 

I did DM you but it didn't look like it had sent...

 

Paul

If you are referring to this forum’s PM system, a PM message will remain in your Outbox until the recipient reads the message. Steve’s most recent forum logon was on 23 June 2021, so he may not have read your message yet.

 

The wonders of the PM system were discussed here in 2014

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Private-Messaging/34980/

[Camlyn]

Ahhhh, thanks for that.

 

I thought that I was doing something wrong.

 

Paul