StuartO Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 We suffered a broken front spring a few years ago - massive bang and the left front end drooped while we were truddling along on the M6. I got on to the hard shoulder as we slowed down and then got recovered and got it fixed easily enough. It turned out to be a stress fracture, based on a tiny surface defect on the steel which, because of the heat treatment which springs get during manufacture, can gradually develop into the metal as stress defect and eventually suddenly fracture. No massive precipitating event for the fracture, the spring just fails and gives up. We were relatively close to home and got recovered back to the local garage who do all our stuff, whom I had telephoned to ask them to get the part so they could repair it quickly, which they did. They put the same sort of standard spring back on of course. The other side looked good as new so no point in changing that. There were two lessons for me from this; first of all that having a good relationship with a local garage pays dividends when you are in trouble and that secondly modern springs are at significant risk of failing in this way. Potholes in roads get blamed as a factor but the very nature of the manufacturing process for heat-treated springs means that tiny surface defects can occur and will develop into stress weaknesses and fractures. I asked at the time about better, stronger springs to reduce the risk of a repeat experience but no one seemed to know of anything available for the Ducato. At the NEC recently I came across two suspension specialists who were offering to supply stronger, progressive-type springs for my vehicle - and for other models too. These uprated springs are made of heavier steel bar which is also tapered or coiled to provide gradually stiffer springing as they compress, hence the term "progressive" springs. Fitting them wouldn;t increase the front axle load I could run with, but they would improve the ride and reduce the risk of spring failure. They would increase the ride height at the front by a couple of inches, so make the MH "sit up" more at the front - which would actually make it look more level because it has always looked a bit nose down when parked on level ground. They cost about £300 per pair and fitting will cost another £300 or so. Shock absorders are not changed. So sevaral years after suffering my spring failure, which was said to be a bit of a freak event, although not all that freakish in that helical springs fail quite often these days, I have an option to spend money to improve ride and reduce furture risk. My MH is now nearly nine years old and has given no trouble since, so is this £600 worth spending? I it was £6,000, such as a set of hydraulic levelling jacks would cost me, I wouldn't bother. But for £600 I'm tempted. I have been thinking of changing the MH but it's currently looking unlikely, so we'll probably be keeping it for at least a few years. I get it serviced annually and I dont mind spending a bit extra on sensible preventive maintenance. Has anyone else fitted progressive springs to the front of their Ducato-based MH and if so did it improve the ride noticeably? And above all has anyone who fitted these stronger springs subsequently suffer spring failure anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Personally would not bother. Despite what you say over the seven years I was involved with a repair garage I can only remember one broken front spring. I have never had one break and do not know of anyone, except you, who has one break. I have had a rear spring break and the odd puncture but see no need to uprate a component because of a failure that is very unlikely to occur again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 It sounds like a fatigue failure with the crack propagating from the defect which acts as a stress raiser. There is nothing to say you wouldn't get a similar defect in the new springs. If the springs were heavier duty, and thus less highly stressed, the chances of failure would be reduced. But, you see a lot more vehicles with tyre failures than you do with broken springs so if you are looking for something to worry about I would go for tyres :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasnt Me Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Having read your post it sounds like a good idea, if you can justify the cost. Having worked in the Vehicle repair industry for many years, I have seen quite a lot of broken springs on relatively new vehicles, that are still in the 3 year warranty period. Some can last years and some not. Generally as a rule of thumb, advice is to replace all suspension parts in pairs - you may already know this? I would always advice replacing springs in pairs for definite, due to the fitting of a new spring will effect the balance of the vehicle. Based on this, I would go for it. The other spring that has not been replaced has probably been subjected to the same stress, as the one that failed. And it definitely would be of the same quality and made from the same material. Unless of course it had been replaced before. Our Mhome also sits low at the front and always needs some sort of leveling blocks, even if the pitch is level. Worth considering if mine fail. Hope this is helpful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 Thanks for those comments. I forgot to mention that a year or so after the spring failed, the wheel bearing on the same side needed replacing. The thump of the failure (just cruising along on a smooth motorway) must have started that off too. If I remember correctly I did ask our garage owner about replacing the other spring as a precaution and he said no need. Ask a dozen mechanics and get at least thirteen different opinions eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Goldschmitt springs seem to be the in thing on Motorhomes at the moment, Hymer, Carthago and other makes appear to fit them. I don't know if the Goldchmitt are progressive springs, my Hymer has them and they give a nice comfortable ride. They also raise the front end by about 50mm taking away that nose down stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I do sympathise with your thoughts but I would be wary of changing springs to anything non standard due to the unknown effects that different compression rates and ride height to the originals might have on handling stability and ride. What about the front dampers as they maybe are supposed to take most of the sting out of the kind of rapid compression that can break a spring- have they been checked? Also you might need to tell your insurers - I doubt they would be too bothered but it is as well to tell them to cover yourself. Unless these vans are prone to front spring failure it seems, with respect, to me a bit of an ott reaction to a one off spring failure, although I can quite understand how that unpleasant experience might take you in the direction of replacements. Who's to say that replacements are made to any better quality control than the originals? If, say, the alternator failed would you replace it with a non standard part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 I don't think I mentioned that the front end had always seemed a very harsh ride and seemed to bang more than it should if we hit a pothole. It never seemed like the front end suspension was as it should be. As far as i know the shock absorbers are OK and when I asked about uprated ones there don't seem to be any. I won't rush into changing the springs but it still seems like a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McAuley Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I have considered fitting these "longer front springs" as there doesn't appear to be an "air-assisted" alternative for the front shocks at a reasonable price; there were ones at the show but they were highly technical and very expensive. AS Suspension and others were showing their suspension systems ,including longer springs: one of the directors has them fitted to his motorhome hence I questioned him re handling and stability but he hasn't encountered any probs! I have considered fitting these springs due to: despite correct tyre pressures,correct weights and rear air assisted suspension the front of the mhome tends to pich in certain circumstances; a nose down attitude which makes it difficult to level the motorhome and is also precarious boarding ferries. I have modified many vehs over the years by suspension changes, yes and even uprated non standard alternators to improve the veh's performance so I wouldn't let that stop me. Nevertheless it's early days with the mhome put to bed so it would be interesting to hear informed opinion please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 My lads to race serious ic powered model cars all over the UK and Europe. We used to use different springs and dampers for each different circuit. For the rougher circuits we used progressive springs and set the dampers with different rates on bounce and rebound. The aim was to produce a smoother handeling cars able to deal with the bumps without compromising the overall handeling. My thoughts are that they would improve the ride hight at the front and give a smoother ride with no ill effects on handeling. To get the best out of them it may be worth considering using progressive shocks as well. We would spend at least a day setting the lads cars up to get the optimum performance but since you are presumedly not planning to race your motorhome getting near enough with improved springs and dampers will be well worth while for the relatively small extra cost over simply replacing the standard items with standard items.. If it were me I'd go ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Tracker - 2014-10-21 5:36 PM Unless these vans are prone to front spring failure it seems, with respect, to me a bit of an ott reaction to a one off spring failure, although I can quite understand how that unpleasant experience might take you in the direction of replacements. Who's to say that replacements are made to any better quality control than the originals? If, say, the alternator failed would you replace it with a non standard part? Springs like the Goldschmitt are specially designed for Motorhomes and are now fitted as standard by Hymer, Carthago etc. so you would be fitting something that is more suitable for the job than the original springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Fair enough - but in over 50 years of driving motorhomes and vans over many many thousands of miles I've never had one with a faulty front spring, or handling so bad that I felt it needed uprated front springs - rear springs yes in days of old, but never front - and so I do have to wonder whether this is not just a case of a problem being invented to fit an existing solution? This is not intended as in any way a criticism and if people find that their vans handle and ride better on custom designed springs then it may well be money very well spent? I just have my doubts that the tangible benefits on a 3.5 tonne behemoth would justify the cost - and you still need to tell your insurers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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