Propane getting ready for trip to France

[Violet1956]

I know the experts on the forum have gathered that I am a bit of a twit. In preparing for our trip to France in March in low temperatures I note we need propane not butane gas. I have tried to understand what we need to do about those regulator thingy's aswell. Can anyone help? Where do we buy propane cylinders and what do we need to do about fitting them to the van. Looking for the embarrassed emoticon right know...oh here it is :$

[Robinhood]

...I believe your 'van is a 2006 model?

 

If so, the regulator should be a 30mBar bulkhead mounted (i.e. to the gas locker wall) version, and these are compatible with both Propane and Butane without change.

 

The outlet connections on the bottles, however, are different, and to use propane you will have to change the pigtail (hose) that runs from the regulator to the bottle for one with a propane connector on the end. (two will be required if you have a changeover valve, which Rapido used to fit as standard - and in this case, the connection(s) is to the changeover valve, not the regulator).

 

These pigtails are relatively easy to source at caravan/motorhome dealers (and a few, cheap, online sources as well, such as BES). I quite like the propane ones with a handwheel that allows you to change bottles without a spanner. The pigtails are a nut (and washer, which should be supplied) fitting to the regulator/changeover valve. Tightened, but not over-tightened.

 

Propane is widely available from most gas dealers. Be aware that Calor will charge you an extortionate amount of money for the first bottle, but if you are already using 7kg or 4.5kg butane bottles, Calor policy is to exchange these for 6kg and 3.9kg Propane bottles respectively for only the propane refill charge. (Some Calor dealers will similarly exchange 15kg butane for 13kg propane, but this is against Calor's current policy). Other gas companies will have different exchange policies.

 

15kg butane/13kg propane, 7kg butane/6kg propane, and 4.5kg butane/3.9kg propane are nominally the same size, so the appropriate size should fit exactly as they do now.

 

Forgive me asking, but you're sure you have butane (normally blue bottles) at the moment, and not propane (normally red bottles)?

 

HTH

 

 

[Violet1956]

Oh dear the bottles are red I think. I can't access the locker at the moment as the van is parked tight to the hedge. Will take a look tomorrow. Thank you Robinhood for your clear advice.

[Derek Uzzell]

Details of Calor’s current gas-bottle-related policies can be found here

 

https://www.calor.co.uk/gas-bottles/buying-gas-bottles/gas-refills-exchanges-returns

 

It’s perhaps worth adding that UK gas-bottles cannot be exchanged abroad and that the outlet of a UK-norm propane bottle differs from the outlet of French bottles. Consequently, if you are using UK propane bottles abroad and there is a need to obtain a ‘foreign’ gas-bottle (eg. if you run out of gas) it should be expected that you’ll need to obtain a ‘foreign’ gas-hose that matches the foreign bottle’s outlet.

[Violet1956]

Derek Uzzell - 2016-02-15 8:15 AM

 

Details of Calor’s current gas-bottle-related policies can be found here

 

https://www.calor.co.uk/gas-bottles/buying-gas-bottles/gas-refills-exchanges-returns

 

It’s perhaps worth adding that UK gas-bottles cannot be exchanged abroad and that the outlet of a UK-norm propane bottle differs from the outlet of French bottles. Consequently, if you are using UK propane bottles abroad and there is a need to obtain a ‘foreign’ gas-bottle (eg. if you run out of gas) it should be expected that you’ll need to obtain a ‘foreign’ gas-hose that matches the foreign bottle’s outlet.

 

Silly me we have propane cylinders. Sorry for bothering you all. I just need to work out what to do if we run out of gas. I am assuming that if we have to obtain French propane cylinder then the only thing that needs to change is the connection to the outlet on the cylinder and not to the connection to the van.

[pepe63xnotuse]

Violet1956 - 2016-02-15 12:50 PM

 

...Silly me we have propane cylinders. Sorry for bothering you all. I just need to work out what to do if we run out of gas. I am assuming that if we have to obtain French propane cylinder then the only thing that needs to change is the connection to the outlet on the cylinder and not to the connection to the van.

 

...if you do get a "French" cylinder, as well any hoses/adapters which may be required (which I'm sure others will point you to), think on as to where you'll store/carry your empty UK propane cylinder(s) on the way back home... :-D

[Violet1956]

pepe63 - 2016-02-15 12:58 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2016-02-15 12:50 PM

 

...Silly me we have propane cylinders. Sorry for bothering you all. I just need to work out what to do if we run out of gas. I am assuming that if we have to obtain French propane cylinder then the only thing that needs to change is the connection to the outlet on the cylinder and not to the connection to the van.

 

...if you do get a "French" cylinder, as well any hoses/adapters which may be required (which I'm sure others will point you to), think on as to where you'll store/carry your empty UK propane cylinder(s) on the way back home... :-D

 

Thanks Pepe. I see there are a few threads on this aspect. Working my way through all the advice. One thread seemed to indicate that no adaptor was required and that all one has to do is to take off the UK adaptor. I am having trouble because I don't always understand the terminology. I might just phone my friendly dealer and see if they can help. The OH thinks I am fretting about nothing and that 2 x6Kg cylinders will be all that we need for two weeks. I am not so sure he's right if we are not on hook-up and using gas for almost everything including heating in low temperatures.

[Tracker]

Violet1956 - 2016-02-15 1:51 PM

I might just phone my friendly dealer and see if they can help. The OH thinks I am fretting about nothing and that 2 x6Kg cylinders will be all that we need for two weeks. I am not so sure he's right if we are not on hook-up and using gas for almost everything including heating in low temperatures.

 

Two weeks on 2 x 6 kg in a potentially cold climate - assuming both are full when you start - is possible but a bit of a gamble inmy view. Depends on how many ehu site nights you have and just how cold it turns out to be!

 

Heating and hot water are the real gas gobblers so if you can manage with less warmth in the van and maybe with a few less showers, and using the kettle for all hot water needs, you have a better chance of getting away with it!

 

The most cost effective way would be be tobeg, borrow or buy (secondhand) a third Calor cylinder which you seal tightly and carry somewhere convenient in the van. That also has the advantage that you will always be able to go away with two full 'uns.

 

However if it is your intent to do more non site trips abroad and for longer durations then a 6kg refillable, using a Calor simply as backup, makes some sense as once the initial cost has been overcome the refill cost is peanuts and autogas is widely available throughout France.

[PJay]

As Tracker says. Two weeks should be Ok. If you go on sites and use the hot water on site, and use electric heating (Take a small fan heater if needs be)

We go away for 3 months (Summer) and use half a bottle of gas max, but we do have an electric hob plate for cooking I would think that you will be using some sites in March, with longer nights, so some comfort required IMO.(Nice hot shower/toilets)

Stop worrying and just go and enjoy yourselves. They do have shops (lovely big supermarkets) in France you know !!!

PJay

[Violet1956]

PJay - 2016-02-15 2:33 PM

 

As Tracker says. Two weeks should be Ok. If you go on sites and use the hot water on site, and use electric heating (Take a small fan heater if needs be)

We go away for 3 months (Summer) and use half a bottle of gas max, but we do have an electric hob plate for cooking I would think that you will be using some sites in March, with longer nights, so some comfort required IMO.(Nice hot shower/toilets)

Stop worrying and just go and enjoy yourselves. They do have shops (lovely big supermarkets) in France you know !!!

PJay

 

That's what the OH says PJay. I am a great fretter when it comes to travelling I think I am driving him mad at the moment trying to cover all eventualities. :'( :'( :-( :-( :-(

[Tracker]

Violet1956 - 2016-02-15 2:54 PM

That's what the OH says PJay. I am a great fretter when it comes to travelling I think I am driving him mad at the moment trying to cover all eventualities.

 

You can never cover all eventualities but you are absolutely right to try and cover as many eventualities as you can see, if for no other reason than these are much easier to cover from the comfort of home than from a cold and lonely Aire in frozen France!

 

How about this for lateral thinking - plus could be handy at home when the power cuts start!

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/CAMPING-HEATER-BUTANE-CANISTERS-AMAZING/dp/B001VFWV64

[Violet1956]

How's about we get a 13kg cylinder giving us 19kg before we go?

[Tracker]

Violet1956 - 2016-02-15 3:25 PM

 

How's about we get a 13kg cylinder giving us 19kg before we go?

 

IF -

 

Your gas locker is big enough and was designed with a 13kg in mind,

 

You can handle the sheer bulk of a heavy gas bottle and the possible complication of having to remove both bottles to change it,

 

You have the spare payload capacity,

 

Why not indeed!

[Violet1956]

Tracker - 2016-02-15 5:08 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2016-02-15 3:25 PM

 

How's about we get a 13kg cylinder giving us 19kg before we go?

 

IF -

 

Your gas locker is big enough and was designed with a 13kg in mind,

 

You can handle the sheer bulk of a heavy gas bottle and the possible complication of having to remove both bottles to change it,

 

You have the spare payload capacity,

 

Why not indeed!

I've checked the 764F handbook and it has pictures of 13kg bottles in the locker. I am tempted to put two in if they will fit and our friendly local gas man will take them back if they don't. Now thinking about what else I need to stress about including the various types of jetons needed for aires. I bought the two books from vicarious that you recommended on another thread. Very detailed and helpful. Me and the OH owe you a drink or two from one of our finest bottles of champagne.

[pepe63xnotuse]

Violet1956 - 2016-02-15 5:53 PM

 

I've checked the 764F handbook and it has pictures of 13kg bottles in the locker. I am tempted to put two in if they will fit and our friendly local gas man will take them back if they don't....

 

As Tracker said, check you've the overall payload (and axle capacity), as they're 35kg (77lbs) each when full!

[Violet1956]

pepe63 - 2016-02-15 5:59 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2016-02-15 5:53 PM

 

I've checked the 764F handbook and it has pictures of 13kg bottles in the locker. I am tempted to put two in if they will fit and our friendly local gas man will take them back if they don't....

 

As Tracker said, check you've the overall payload (and axle capacity), as they're 35kg (77lbs) each when full!

 

Good grief, like carrying another humanbean! Will take note thanks for the info.

[Robinhood]

...as I've mentioned before (I think as an eye-opener to Pepe), gas is much, much cheaper (per kg) in the larger bottles.

 

Calor Propane RRP is £20.25 for a 6kg refill, and £26.25 for a 13kg refill!

 

Yet another reason to use the bigger bottles if you can handle them.

 

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

Robinhood - 2016-02-15 7:22 PM

 

...as I've mentioned before (I think as an eye-opener to Pepe), gas is much, much cheaper (per kg) in the larger bottles.

 

Calor Propane RRP is £20.25 for a 6kg refill, and £26.25 for a 13kg refill!

 

Yet another reason to use the bigger bottles if you can handle them.

 

 

Yes, we switched to using a 13kg (from a Calorlite) with our previous, "proper" van..and at the time that alone almost halved our gas costs... :-D

[Violet1956]

pepe63 - 2016-02-15 7:49 PM

 

Robinhood - 2016-02-15 7:22 PM

 

...as I've mentioned before (I think as an eye-opener to Pepe), gas is much, much cheaper (per kg) in the larger bottles.

 

Calor Propane RRP is £20.25 for a 6kg refill, and £26.25 for a 13kg refill!

 

Yet another reason to use the bigger bottles if you can handle them.

 

 

 

Yes, we switched to using a 13kg (from a Calorlite) with our previous, "proper" van..and at the time that alone almost halved our gas costs... :-D

;-) Leaving more scope for wine women and song I trust! :-)

[Violet1956]

pepe63 - 2016-02-15 7:49 PM

 

Robinhood - 2016-02-15 7:22 PM

 

...as I've mentioned before (I think as an eye-opener to Pepe), gas is much, much cheaper (per kg) in the larger bottles.

 

Calor Propane RRP is £20.25 for a 6kg refill, and £26.25 for a 13kg refill!

 

Yet another reason to use the bigger bottles if you can handle them.

 

 

 

Yes, we switched to using a 13kg (from a Calorlite) with our previous, "proper" van..and at the time that alone almost halved our gas costs... :-D

;-) Leaving more scope for wine women and song I trust! :-)

[Brian Kirby]

Violet1956 - 2016-02-15 5:53 PM................... I've checked the 764F handbook and it has pictures of 13kg bottles in the locker. I am tempted to put two in if they will fit and our friendly local gas man will take them back if they don't. ...............

Which is what I was about to suggest, but with a twist. You said you will be going into the Alps, and you said March. How cold it actually gets will depend on the weather, and the altitude you reach. Just be aware that at altitude in the Alps it can get very cold, and this applies even into April. Keeping warm would be an essential consideration if you were to get snowed in, which is a possibility (we were, for 24 hours, on 10/11 April 2006, and we were only in Fussen, not up into the Alps!). If it does get cold, the heater will gallop through gas, the more so if your van has no supplementary electric heating and/or you are staying "off grid".

 

So, my suggestion is that you get one 13kg Calor propane cylinder before you leave, and start with just that on board. Then, pick up a 13kg Butagaz (blue/silver) propane cylinder in France as you travel.

 

This has two advantages. First, the Butagaz will be cheaper than a second Calor and second, should you find it very cold and you empty both, it will be easy to to get a an exchange Butagaz cylinder almost anywhere in France, as it is very widely distributed (claimed to be the most widely available brand). Rural Intermarchés almost invariably have them, but they are pretty ubiquitous. There is just a simple agreement form to complete; nothing to be worried about. The Auchan filling station in Calais has them - we exchanged ours there last April!

 

For your trip I would be inclined to switch to the Butagaz as soon as you get it, leaving the Calor as your reserve. That way, if the Butagaz runs out you can use the Calor until you can get a Butagaz refill, and if the weather remains cold immediately switch to the new Butagaz, so ensuring you will always have a serviceable back-up cylinder on board, just in case.

 

You can then start any trip with a full cylinder as a back up, by replacing an empty Calor when at home, and an empty Butagaz whenever in France. Even if you won't spend all your time in France, most of us arrive there and depart from there, and/or will pass through en-route to elsewhere, at some point.

 

The only other thing you will need is a new pigtail for the French propane cylinder, which is the same connection as for a UK butane cylinder. Just get and fit a UK butane pigtail to your bulkhead mounted regulator before you go, and you'll be ready to connect the cylinder once you've got one.

 

Then, you should be freed from all concerns about running out of gas.

[Robinhood]

 

Picking up on Brian's suggestion, I suspect you will have a changeover valve with two pigtails, one for each bottle. If you have, you can easily run with a pigtail of each type, and attach each to the relevant bottle.

 

If you don't have a changeover valve (and two pigtails) then, at the risk of getting very complicated, if you were to go for a mix of Calor (British) propane, and a Butagaz (French) propane, I would be inclined to permanently switch to a 21.8LH hose attached to the regulator.(A British Butane hose, which will also fit a French Butagaz Propane bottle).

 

I would then buy a handwheel 21.8LH to UK Propane adapter that will fit into the bottle end of the above hose as and when using UK gas (attaching the adapter to the hose will need a spanner, attaching the unit to the bottle will not).

 

I don't particularly like the repeated change of hose at the regultor end, and it is likely to be quite inaccessible with bottles in place. Adding an adapter at the bottle end of the hose will be both easier, and IMO, more acceptable.

 

http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/cyujrhdmmu67.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Products/01-1674

[Robbo]

It may be worth mentioning, to help the OP, that the screw connections in the gas compartment are a combination of right hand thread and left hand thread.

 

A basic rule of thumb is that the hose (or pigtail) connecting to the outlet of the gas bottle has a LEFT hand thread.

 

All the other connections within the gas compartment have a RIGHT hand thread.

 

I think the reasoning behind this Is to distinguish between bottles that contain a flammable gas (left hand thread) and those that don't (right hand thread), such as oxygen cylinders. AFAIK this is to prevent the wrong equipment being connected to the wrong bottle.

 

I hope the experts on here agree with my logic :-o

[Steve928]

Robbo - 2016-02-17 9:39 AM

 

A basic rule of thumb is that the hose (or pigtail) connecting to the outlet of the gas bottle has a LEFT hand thread.

 

I've often wondered why the LH thread and happened to find out when buying Argon the other day: the British Standard states that all cylinders containing a combustible gas must be LH threaded while those containing non-combustible/inert gas must be RH threaded.

 

[anniej46]

We went to France for a month and only used 1.5 bottles of gas. Take a camping gaz barbeque with you as the bottles are easy to exchange and buy in France.