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Put a pig in your tank.
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userjumpstart
Posted: 14 March 2019 5:21 PM
Subject: Put a pig in your tank.
 
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Having just bought a new Peugeot based camper I’m a bit alarmed at all the stories I see on line re Adblue.
There seem to be problems with the systems. Ie vehicles that won’t restart. Do all new deisel vehicles have to use Adblue.

Edited by jumpstart 2019-03-14 5:23 PM
userBKen1
Posted: 14 March 2019 5:30 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 


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Not sure about all new vehicles needing Adblue but there are loads of garages here in Spain with the pumps now ...
userBillggski
Posted: 14 March 2019 5:38 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 


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Don't forget that folk only post online when they've got a problem. Millions of diesels with adblu running fine.
userjumpstart
Posted: 14 March 2019 6:02 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 
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That’s a pleasing thought. I was going to say does anyone have any good comments on it. I understand that it’s pig urine + distilled water. What will they think of next. I’m surprised animal activists aren’t squeeling.
userMarcol
Posted: 14 March 2019 6:04 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 
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Location: Kings Lynn. Benimar Tessoro 463 - Transit 170 auto


Our Transit uses Ad blu. No problem. It uses 10 litres every 3700 miles. I’ve got into the habit of topping it up every 1000 miles or so.

I bought 10 litres from Amazon and carry it with us, but as has been said nearly every petrol station sells it. I wouldn’t give it a second thought, just top up and go
userBruceM
Posted: 14 March 2019 6:19 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 
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jumpstart - 2019-03-14 6:02 PM

That’s a pleasing thought. I was going to say does anyone have any good comments on it. I understand that it’s pig urine + distilled water. What will they think of next. I’m surprised animal activists aren’t squeeling.


Urea is made through a chemical process – no pigs involved.
userjumpstart
Posted: 14 March 2019 6:21 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 
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Thank god , I’ll still be able to eat my breakfast tomorrow then.
userBrock
Posted: 14 March 2019 6:23 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 
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Location: Wirral - 2013 Hymer BClass 504 130bhp


Any diesel engine designed to run with AdBlue or other such products is likely to shut down if it is starved of AdBlue. What reason is given in these stories you read?
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 14 March 2019 6:47 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 


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Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


This Wikipedia entry relates to diesel exhaust fluid (eg. AdBlue)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_fluid

and this link explains AdBlue’s use in Peugeot “BlueHDI” powerplants as fitted to Euro 6 Boxers.

https://www.peugeot.co.uk/adblue/

As will be apparent from this Mercedes-Benz webpage’s "What happens if I don’t use AdBlue?” section

http://tools.mercedes-benz.co.uk/current/vans/pdfs/Vans-AdBlue-A5Leaflet.pdf

the result of running out of AdBlue can vary from the vehicle being prevented from restarting to causing a radical reduction in power output.

The vast majority of new Fiat Ducatos continue to not need AdBlue, but it’s generally understood that this will change in the near future (probably in mid-2019).
userHymerVan
Posted: 14 March 2019 7:05 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 


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Works fine for me. Approximately 500 per litre so for many users only need to refill once a yeat
userWill86
Posted: 14 March 2019 7:08 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 


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Location: Gatwick. Rapido 987 M. Now a VW Nexa


Has anyone proved this unknown chemical does what is said ... or is it ... tell it enough times and it will eventually be believed.

Remember this was the basis of a propaganda programme during WWII by a certain short military man with a name like Gorbals and he was fairly successful at it.

Edited by Will86 2019-03-14 7:14 PM
userjumpstart
Posted: 14 March 2019 8:39 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 
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Brock - 2019-03-14 6:23 PM

Any diesel engine designed to run with AdBlue or other such products is likely to shut down if it is starved of AdBlue. What reason is given in these stories you read?


Various stories about vehicles not restarting after filling with Adblue. Another Eu directive ment to enhance all our lives.
userKeithl
Posted: 14 March 2019 8:53 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 


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jumpstart - 2019-03-14 8:39 PM

Various stories about vehicles not restarting after filling with Adblue. Another Eu directive ment to enhance all our lives.


Lack of use is one of the biggest reasons for failure of AdBlue systems.
The AdBlue has a relatively short shelf life and if the tank is left partly full the AdBlue can crystallise on the pump and sensors and cause false failures.

Keith.
userBruceM
Posted: 14 March 2019 10:32 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 
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jumpstart - 2019-03-14 8:39 PM
Various stories about vehicles not restarting after filling with Adblue. Another Eu directive ment to enhance all our lives.


In the European Union our vehicle emission standards have in the past concentrated on reducing carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide. In the US the focus has been on Nitrogen Oxides (NOx) and Particulate Matter, these latter two having most negative impact on health especially in the crowded environments of large towns and cities. The addition of urea reduces the NOx levels to within the legislated limits. So in this respect, in the EU we’re just catching up with the US and putting people’s health first. I believe that in this regard the US regulations are still stricter than ours but I suspect we'll get there eventually.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 15 March 2019 7:39 AM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 


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Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


It seems to be believed that it’s something new for UK-marketed diesel-fuelled vehicles to have an emissions-control system that requires an ‘exhaust fluid’. Trucks have had large AdBlue tanks for years and this 2010 forum thread refers to the EOLYS fluid that was used with Peugeot cars.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Diesel-Particulate-issues-Additives-etc/19553/

The following articles (both 2015) refer to potential problems when a vehicle has an ‘AdBlue system'

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/company-car-tax-advice/news/drivers-warned-over-diesel-exhaust-fluid-refill-3/

https://www.businessvans.co.uk/van-news/know-your-adblue-to-avoid-grinding-to-a-halt/

Certain Fiat Ducatos already have an AdBlue tank and there’s information about AdBlue in recent Ducato Owner Handbooks. The effects of letting a Ducato’s AdBlue tank run low/dry are explained in the attached file.



(Ducato AdBlue.png)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Ducato AdBlue.png (119KB - 6 downloads)
userWill86
Posted: 15 March 2019 10:33 AM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 


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Location: Gatwick. Rapido 987 M. Now a VW Nexa


I see the motor trade following the medical industry whereby laboratories invent a product costing millions which has to be sold, so a cause is dreamed up in order to sell that product. (Ad Blue)

I drive less now but am more involved in the pill industry with Mrs Will consuming vast quantities of them. Many times a new product is suggested but deep investigation results in my banning it ... and she's still here and thriving into her 86th following my decision making, indeed I would suggest even better by ignoring the 'so called' advantaged medication.

The ruling must surely be don't believe all you're told.
userjumpstart
Posted: 15 March 2019 11:15 AM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 
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So we now have this fantastic product we now have to add to reduce bad emissions because the manufacturers made up emission figures. But we’re all going electric aren’t we... except latest figures show a third of all councils have no plans to increase powering up points .
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 15 March 2019 11:52 AM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 


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Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


jumpstart - 2019-03-15 11:15 AM

So we now have this fantastic product we now have to add to reduce bad emissions because the manufacturers made up emission figures...


Apparently AdBlue began to be used in 2005/2006 when the Euro IV emissions standard was introduced.

That AdBlue is pretty much unavoidable now (and for the foreseeable future) is not because vehicle manufacturers have “made up emissions figures”, it’s because the very latest Euro 6 testing regimen is much more realistic than its predecessor and, while a few manufacturers (eg. Fiat) could produce diesel-fuelled motors that could pass the earlier test, AdBlue will be needed to pass the latest stricter test.

Citroen/Peugeot, Ford, Mercedes-Benz and VW implemented an AdBlue system for their light-commercial vehicles a while back, while Fiat has chosen (and been able) to tread water until legislation will force compliance with the latest standard.

This link refers to technological improvements to Selective Catalytic Reduction systems

https://www.lboro.ac.uk/enterprise/acct/

but AdBlue would still be required.
userBruceM
Posted: 15 March 2019 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 
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jumpstart - 2019-03-15 11:15 AM

So we now have this fantastic product we now have to add to reduce bad emissions because the manufacturers made up emission figures. But we’re all going electric aren’t we... except latest figures show a third of all councils have no plans to increase powering up points .


Well, Gove announced that the ban on the sale of new petrol/diesel vehicles does not come into force until 2040. That’s a long way away although manufacturers are consequently planning for currently the only alternative, namely electric.

Of greater interest is the intent to implement a new tax on diesel vehicles drivers from 2020 in an attempt to drive all diesel vehicles off UK roads by 2050. By 2050 AdBlue may just be a distant blip in automotive development so I’d not worry about it.

You’ll have also probably noted Gove announced the intent to ban the sale of household coal to prevent the use of open coal fires and the intent to ban the sale of non-kiln dried wood for log burners consequently deterring the use of wood burners by increasing the cost of the fuel and to some extent its ready availability from small producers such as tree surgeons.

Lastly you’ll have noted the announcement discussed elsewhere on this forum of the UK governments advisory intent (ie not yet law) to ban the use of fossil fuel heating (basically gas) in new build housing ‘within 6 years’.

So absolutely everything appears to be moving in the direction of electric at the moment. The free market will of course respond and put in lots of fast electric charging points and with a bit of good fortune we’ll be able to purchase the extra electricity we need from France and The Netherlands as we currently do – unless of course their demand increases as well.

I applaud the intent but worry about the pragmatism.

PS I visited my mother-in-law in her tiny village in the middle of nowhere in France recently. Their tiny car park in the centre of the village has two fast electric charging points.
userBrock
Posted: 15 March 2019 12:45 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 
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Location: Wirral - 2013 Hymer BClass 504 130bhp


I've found a few internet comments that supports jumpstart's post about problems with starting the new Peugeot diesel engines. I gather that the problems experienced relate to the NOx sensor and/or the AdBlue injector rather than running out of AdBlue or degradation of the AdBlue [both will cause problems]. My understanding is that if the NOx sensor is faulty, then no AdBlue is injected and if the injector is faulty, again no AdBlue is injected.However, it's not just Peugeots that suffer, other makes do.

usermichaelmorris
Posted: 15 March 2019 1:51 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 


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Will86 - 2019-03-14 7:08 PM

Has anyone proved this unknown chemical does what is said ... or is it ... tell it enough times and it will eventually be believed.

.

Firstly, Adblue is not an 'unknown chemical'. It is basically dilute urea. You may not have heard of it, but it's been around for years.

Are you honestly suggesting that multiple manufacturers with multi billion pound turnovers and pretty much the entire road haulage industry would not have done incredibly thorough research into the effectiveness of these systems before spending billions of pounds on vehicles fitted with Adblue systems? Just quite how stupid do you think the entire vehicle manufacturing and road road haulage industries are?
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 15 March 2019 2:44 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 


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Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Brock - 2019-03-15 12:45 PM

I've found a few internet comments that supports jumpstart's post about problems with starting the new Peugeot diesel engines...


Links to those comments would be helpful.

SCR systems will require sensors to monitor the quality of the AdBlue and the correct operation of the system generally. If it’s become known that there are component faults with the system fitted to Peugeot vehicles with BlueHDI motors, it would be sensible to widely advertise this.

This mid-2018 FleetNews webpage mentions that the AA dealt with 23000 AdBlue-related problems in the previous 12 months, but these were due to driver error not system failure.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/fleet-industry-news/2018/06/25/aa-deals-with-23-000-adblue-errors-in-the-past-year
userWill86
Posted: 15 March 2019 4:12 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 


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Location: Gatwick. Rapido 987 M. Now a VW Nexa


michaelmorris, no of course Adblue is not "unknown" but in the context to which I was referring its one of life's mysteries that are supposed to perform magic.

And no the entire haulage industry is not stupid ... they are in fact all in it together for without compliance and customer support that particular trade (or any) would collapse.

The simple facts are trade must flourish 'in any way' in order to succeed.

This has traded far enough I'm out.
userjumpstart
Posted: 15 March 2019 5:43 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 
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michaelmorris - 2019-03-15 1:51 PM

Will86 - 2019-03-14 7:08 PM

Has anyone proved this unknown chemical does what is said ... or is it ... tell it enough times and it will eventually be believed.

.

Firstly, Adblue is not an 'unknown chemical'. It is basically dilute urea. You may not have heard of it, but it's been around for years.

Are you honestly suggesting that multiple manufacturers with multi billion pound turnovers and pretty much the entire road haulage industry would not have done incredibly thorough research into the effectiveness of these systems before spending billions of pounds on vehicles fitted with Adblue systems? Just quite how stupid do you think the entire vehicle manufacturing and road road haulage industries are?



Well actually I think they are pretty stupid,as proved by their falseifying emission figures over a number of years. What else have they been doing?
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 15 March 2019 6:41 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 


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Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


If you are really concerned about potential AdBlue-related problems with your new Peugeot motorhome, this link may be of interest to you.

http://www.ecuflash.co/adblue-removal/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0JPquOOE4QIVKrvtCh1IPg1vEAAYASAAEgJqo_D_BwE

I recall reading, some years back, an article in a French newspaper claiming that an estimated 80% of Eastern Europe-registered heavy trucks travelling in France had a ‘black box’ (available on-line for about £50) that allowed them to run normally with their AdBlue tank empty. The thrust of the article was not that doing this was bad for the environment but (as truck diesel engines require a lot of AdBlue) that it allowed the Eastern European haulage firms to undercut their ‘law abiding’ French competitors.
userjumpstart
Posted: 15 March 2019 8:56 PM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 
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Although we do use our camper through winter , I was surprised to see that if the vehicle is not used for a period,ie in storage or just parked up that after a certain amount of time(unknown) the Adblue can crystallise and *uck up the sensors . Then the engine won’t start but your problems do.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 16 March 2019 7:02 AM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 


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Location: Herefordshire - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


AdBlue will certainly crystallise if the solution is allowed to dry, or if it’s accidentally put into a vehicle’s fuel tank from which it can then contaminatate a motor’s injectors, but I’m doubtful that crystallisation would be a real problem if the vehicle’s emissions-control system has been properly designed.

This 2016 webpage

https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/south-pacific/sites/cumminsfiltration-empty.bitnamiapp.com.south-pacific/files/LT36330AU-REV1%20Fleetguard%20AdBlue%20Q%26A.pdf

carries a lot of useful and reliable information about AdBlue.
userBrock
Posted: 16 March 2019 9:36 AM
Subject: RE: Put a pig in your tank.
 
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Sorry, Derek, didn't think to record the sites. My internet preference wipes my surfing history on a daily basis so I did a quick search this morning rather than the previous trawl. These are four I picked up again this morning. I know Feathers from bygone years so it was the second site I visited and remembered, Iveco issues because my son is on his third AdBlue-Iveco and had one problem on his first Iveco - moisture got into the AdBlue and the van limped to the garage for a repair taking half an hour, and Merc by accident! Most of the others were related to cars.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Peugeot-Boxer-Euro-6-NOx-Sensor/49486/

https://motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/2017-peugeot-boxer-engine-warning-lamp-on.171901/

http://www.feather-diesel.co.uk/adblue-and-fuel-injectors-dont-mix/

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1731850

http://www.mercedesmedic.com/mercedes-adblue-problems/

The other three Boxer related were found trawling through pages of adblue/injector problems and were just lucky strikes. I didn't realise how problematic AdBlue was [still needs to be kept in perspective]! As you mentioned, there are firms who make claims to get rid of these problems. These sites also give an indication of problems but I found nothing to suggest Boxer engines were exceptionally problematic.

This is an interesting explanation of the Boxer AdBlue process:

http://www.auto-sleepers.com/all-you-need-to-know-about-peugeot-euro-6-engines/
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