trialsrider Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 I am about to fit a basic on off switch to the positive feed going to the above controller. I'm wondering if maybe the charge controller already has this on off function. Just been looking at the online manual and there is a switch button which controls load on and load off. Would pressing this switch button to load off position turn off the solar supply going to the battery? When load on is on the red light is on constantly and load off has no red light. Basically can I use this load on and load off as an on off switch ? I don't want to fit a switch unnecessarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 I can only see the voltage through my Sargent unit and it's not sunny enough to notice any difference in voltage with load on or off after its gone through the Sargent. Can't find my voltmeter otherwise I would measure voltage as it came out charge controller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 trialsrider - 2019-02-04 3:04 PM I am about to fit a basic on off switch to the positive feed going to the above controller. I'm wondering if maybe the charge controller already has this on off function. Just been looking at the online manual and there is a switch button which controls load on and load off. Would pressing this switch button to load off position turn off the solar supply going to the battery? When load on is on the red light is on constantly and load off has no red light. Basically can I use this load on and load off as an on off switch ? I don't want to fit a switch unnecessarily. The Load button disconnects the load from the second output. Looking at the front of the solar reg it has a 'Load' connection, shown by a Light Bulb, so when the Sun is shining bright you can power a light bulb or other load from the battery, but controlled by the Solar Reg. It will usually have cutoff/cuton voltage limits so automatically cuts the load when the battery drops, say, below 12.5v, etc. . The load button appears to isolate the load from running down the battery? Forgive my lack of tact, but it isn't a very good regulator for a motorhome, are you sure you want to fit that device? There is no charging for the Starter battery, it is just a single battery unit that appears to be quite crude, so may have issues in other areas, like may not be that efficient or overcharge the battery? Does the manual show the charging profiles and voltages, because it seems to be designed for house solar and they generally have a tendency to work the reverse to the way Solar is required for a motorhome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul- Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 The load facility is for powering from the battery via the controller, mine has a low voltage disconnect (LVD) and it looks like your does, but yours has the option of turning it on or off. I use load for the TV as it will turn the TV off if the battery gets low, However I don't know a lot about Landstar controllers ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 aandncaravan - 2019-02-04 4:21 PM trialsrider - 2019-02-04 3:04 PM I am about to fit a basic on off switch to the positive feed going to the above controller. I'm wondering if maybe the charge controller already has this on off function. Just been looking at the online manual and there is a switch button which controls load on and load off. Would pressing this switch button to load off position turn off the solar supply going to the battery? When load on is on the red light is on constantly and load off has no red light. Basically can I use this load on and load off as an on off switch ? I don't want to fit a switch unnecessarily. The Load button disconnects the load from the second output. Looking at the front of the solar reg it has a 'Load' connection, shown by a Light Bulb, so when the Sun is shining bright you can power a light bulb or other load from the battery, but controlled by the Solar Reg. It will usually have cutoff/cuton voltage limits so automatically cuts the load when the battery drops, say, below 12.5v, etc. . The load button appears to isolate the load from running down the battery? Forgive my lack of tact, but it isn't a very good regulator for a motorhome, are you sure you want to fit that device? There is no charging for the Starter battery, it is just a single battery unit that appears to be quite crude, so may have issues in other areas, like may not be that efficient or overcharge the battery? Does the manual show the charging profiles and voltages, because it seems to be designed for house solar and they generally have a tendency to work the reverse to the way Solar is required for a motorhome. Hi Allan I understand what the load is for now. Thanks. Basically when I first had the solar fitted it had a dual charging controller. This kept switching off the Sargent unit when the sun shone. Sargent would only stay on with ehu on. Took it back and they fitted a single charging controller which solved the problem. But obviously now only charges leisure battery. I've just fitted new yuasa battery and don't want to ruin it. I don't mind the fact it only charges leisure battery. Manual shows charging profiles but way too complicated for me to understand. What controller would you recommend. Remember I don't want and can't do dual charging. Can't get to Sargent unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Trialsrider, There are a couple of known issues with the Sargent kit. The first is that the Solar regulators they use are very poor, generic units, they are known to both over charge and fail. We have seen a few with charging voltages over 15+v. On the Reich e-Box web page we write : "Note that the Reich e-Box is very sensitive to higher (14.9v+) than normal voltages and will shut down if any are detected. Many Solar regulators are lazy at controlling voltage changes and allow a very short duration 'high' voltage of 15+volts when the Solar Panel moves from Shade to bright Sun. You should only use a Motorhome specific Solar Regulator with the e-Box that has very tight Voltage control. Play safe and only fit one from the Charger suppliers that know Motorhomes, like Schaudt, Votronic, Toptron, Calira, etc". http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/reich-e-box.php The Sargent boxes can also be a bit over sensitive, but the real issue is Solar Controllers designed for House systems where a quarter second burst of 16v to the battery won't do any harm. Obviously that doesn't apply to a motorhome where all sorts of damage can occur. to the Fiat 'Body control' ECU, Fridge controller, Truma heating, etc. It sounds like you have suffered both issues. We keep stressing the importance of only fitting a motorhome specific Solar regulators for all manner of reasons, but the big Solar Dealers just don't have a clue about motorhome electronics and go on promoting unsuitable regulators into the motorhome market place. I can only repeat the advice on the Solar web pages that only a proper motorhome specific Solar Charger will have a twin battery output with a reduced 'trickle' output to the Starter battery. You may not be bothered about charging the Starter battery, but if the Solar charger doesn't cater for it, it isn't designed specifically for a motorhome with the really tight voltage control and charging methodologies that are essential. They usually are higher quality, faster charging and more efficient into the bargain. If it were me in your position, I would bypass the Sargent box (EC160) altogether. Have a read of the Solar 'Hints and Tips' page : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/solar-power.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 aandncaravan - 2019-02-04 7:18 PM Trialsrider, There are a couple of known issues with the Sargent kit. The first is that the Solar regulators they use are very poor, generic units, they are known to both over charge and fail. We have seen a few with charging voltages over 15+v. On the Reich e-Box web page we write : "Note that the Reich e-Box is very sensitive to higher (14.9v+) than normal voltages and will shut down if any are detected. Many Solar regulators are lazy at controlling voltage changes and allow a very short duration 'high' voltage of 15+volts when the Solar Panel moves from Shade to bright Sun. You should only use a Motorhome specific Solar Regulator with the e-Box that has very tight Voltage control. Play safe and only fit one from the Charger suppliers that know Motorhomes, like Schaudt, Votronic, Toptron, Calira, etc". http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/reich-e-box.php The Sargent boxes can also be a bit over sensitive, but the real issue is Solar Controllers designed for House systems where a quarter second burst of 16v to the battery won't do any harm. Obviously that doesn't apply to a motorhome where all sorts of damage can occur. to the Fiat 'Body control' ECU, Fridge controller, Truma heating, etc. It sounds like you have suffered both issues. We keep stressing the importance of only fitting a motorhome specific Solar regulators for all manner of reasons, but the big Solar Dealers just don't have a clue about motorhome electronics and go on promoting unsuitable regulators into the motorhome market place. I can only repeat the advice on the Solar web pages that only a proper motorhome specific Solar Charger will have a twin battery output with a reduced 'trickle' output to the Starter battery. You may not be bothered about charging the Starter battery, but if the Solar charger doesn't cater for it, it isn't designed specifically for a motorhome with the really tight voltage control and charging methodologies that are essential. They usually are higher quality, faster charging and more efficient into the bargain. If it were me in your position, I would bypass the Sargent box (EC160) altogether. Have a read of the Solar 'Hints and Tips' page : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/solar-power.php My solar controller is now going straight to the battery. It was before too but also to the drive battery. It never went to the Sargent but the damn vsr kept switching the Sargent off. Obviously they couldn't get to the Sargent and wired the starter battery charger wires from the solar controller to the wires which were coming from the drive battery to the Sargent. Hence when the sun shone it made the vsr think the engine had started. I've been looking at the ten amp Victron Energy BlueSolar PWM Solar Charge Controller. Is this motorhome specific ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 How did you get on fitting the 2 part VSR? If you leave the old Durite VSR in place and fit the new one at the Starter battery it will allow the Starter battery to be charged by Solar when the ignition is off without triggering the new VSR. I know some people rate the Victron, but it isn't designed specifically for a motorhome, it would have a dynamic dual battery output if it was. The one you have chosen is only a PWM version and I suspect you are going to need every miliamp you can harvest when you start using the vehicle? If you look on our web pages you will find details of where to get the best MPPT Solar charger going for about £65, not much more than your budget 'House Solar' version. Because the Votronic uses advanced technology and MPPT it is likely to harvest 40% - 50% more than the Epsolar and the Victron. To give you an idea of how good the design is, the manufacturers made it compatible with the biggest selling Motorhome electronics systems in the World. No other independent Solar regulator on the market, apart from Schaudt's LRM1218, even acknowledges the electronics inside a motorhome let alone work with it. That really is key to the charging of Motorhome batteries which have absolutely unique needs. If you look on eBay you will see the Victron is very similar to other 'badged' Chinese regulators, and looks remarkably similar to the Sargent badged version. It makes me wonder if it is a 'real' Victron product? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Also, the old PWM design Victrons aren't that much cheaper (if at all) than the newer MPPT units, so there's no reason to go that route. Allan, in case you're interested, Victron is currently doing a van install video series teaser: part 2 solar: part 3 alternator: They've promised a wiring diagram in the final episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Spirou, I have seen it before, an Exide battery R&D engineer sent it to me at the end of January. I wasn't impressed, the sheer volume of space taken up and the cost really demonstrates that they are not Motorhome electronics specialists. Compare that massive array of kit to a Schaudt EBL220 or CBE electronics. I think the last kit I would put in a small Campervan is Victron?. Victron do make really high quality battery charging equipment, but they are definitely not motorhome specialists as they would have packaged it very differently. The specialists in motorhome electronics, IMO, have much more compact, simpler solutions that do what is asked. Where was the Victrons single display that shows everything on one screen, like water levels, Solar, mains charge, etc. Where was the power distribution box that safely distributes all 12v power around the vehicle with a 'isolate everything' at the touch of a single button? While Victron are genuine battery charging specialists, one of the only companies making both sophisticated chargers and batteries, their area of expertise isn't motorhomes, it is battery charging when a motorhome is much more. However, I am sure that in the future, if they did focus on the motorhome market, their kit would probably be the best around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 aandncaravan - 2019-02-05 8:29 AM How did you get on fitting the 2 part VSR? If you leave the old Durite VSR in place and fit the new one at the Starter battery it will allow the Starter battery to be charged by Solar when the ignition is off without triggering the new VSR. I know some people rate the Victron, but it isn't designed specifically for a motorhome, it would have a dynamic dual battery output if it was. The one you have chosen is only a PWM version and I suspect you are going to need every miliamp you can harvest when you start using the vehicle? If you look on our web pages you will find details of where to get the best MPPT Solar charger going for about £65, not much more than your budget 'House Solar' version. Because the Votronic uses advanced technology and MPPT it is likely to harvest 40% - 50% more than the Epsolar and the Victron. To give you an idea of how good the design is, the manufacturers made it compatible with the biggest selling Motorhome electronics systems in the World. No other independent Solar regulator on the market, apart from Schaudt's LRM1218, even acknowledges the electronics inside a motorhome let alone work with it. That really is key to the charging of Motorhome batteries which have absolutely unique needs. If you look on eBay you will see the Victron is very similar to other 'badged' Chinese regulators, and looks remarkably similar to the Sargent badged version. It makes me wonder if it is a 'real' Victron product? Hi Allen My motorelectrics man refused to fit the two part vsr as he said it simply wouldn't help the situation. If your ever down in South Wales feel free to come and look at my van. The yuasa battery is working well. Fitted a socket for Ctek charger now so that system is all working well. After its second charge cycle the battery went from 12.9v under no load and rested for 24 hrs to 12.5 under load of the propex heater. Heater was on for a solid hour. Voltage went back up to 12.8v after an hour. I'm guessing things will get even better after a few more cycles. I've read 12.4v is the d.o.d. for this battery. If my voltage drops to 12.4 under load, is that ok ? Just want to finalise my solar set up before I put all the cabinetry back together. Yes I will have a look at that charge controller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 You did explain to him that the wiring diagram needed an ignition feed like I explained, not the fused feed in the picture? If the 2 part VSR is only triggered when the ignition is on how can a Solar charge of 14.4v to the Starter battery trigger it in normal circumstances? The new 2 part VSR can only trigger when the ignition is on, when the engine will almost always be running as well. Strongly suggest you sort out the VSR and utilise the Starter battery output on a solar charger as it helps with all sorts of issues, including providing an 'overflow' path when the Habitation battery is full. When most motorhomes are idle, the habitation battery is full, so having a path to divert small currents to the Starter battery, which usually has the current drain of the body computer and Alarm/tracker, etc, will help the habitation battery perform at it's best for longer. If you come to us I will fit the 2 part VSR for free, and prove to you it works as stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 aandncaravan - 2019-02-05 11:01 AM You did explain to him that the wiring diagram needed an ignition feed like I explained, not the fused feed in the picture? If the 2 part VSR is only triggered when the ignition is on how can a Solar charge of 14.4v to the Starter battery trigger it in normal circumstances? The new 2 part VSR can only trigger when the ignition is on, when the engine will almost always be running as well. Strongly suggest you sort out the VSR and utilise the Starter battery output on a solar charger as it helps with all sorts of issues, including providing an 'overflow' path when the Habitation battery is full. When most motorhomes are idle, the habitation battery is full, so having a path to divert small currents to the Starter battery, which usually has the current drain of the body computer and Alarm/tracker, etc, will help the habitation battery perform at it's best for longer. If you come to us I will fit the 2 part VSR for free, and prove to you it works as stated. I explained to him word for word what you had written in one of your posts. He felt that if you only had access to the Sargent via the wires leading from the starter battery which go to the vsr, then adding another vsr to the circuit would not rectify it. Maybe if he had seen it rather than me explain it on the phone he may have thought differently. If I'm down your neck of the woods I will definitely call in. I'm more than happy to pay for you to do it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 https://www.amazon.co.uk/RKURCK-12V-24V-Circuit-Inverter-Protection-30A/dp/B074RJR1JT/ref=pd_rhf_ee_s_rp_0_4?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B074RJR1JT&pd_rd_r=1f46df11-d5ab-4f76-b94c-50918be22621&pd_rd_w=j4DUO&pd_rd_wg=VwI9K&pf_rd_p=6b14f6e1-6ceb-4e91-8966-2e4ce0257d76&pf_rd_r=H2K4NTWZDC5AQ5J76WPH&psc=1&refRID=H2K4NTWZDC5AQ5J76WPH I have fitted one of these to the + & - leads from the solar panels just before the regulator so if required the solar panels can be isolated if required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted February 6, 2019 Author Share Posted February 6, 2019 weldted - 2019-02-05 5:43 PM https://www.amazon.co.uk/RKURCK-12V-24V-Circuit-Inverter-Protection-30A/dp/B074RJR1JT/ref=pd_rhf_ee_s_rp_0_4?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B074RJR1JT&pd_rd_r=1f46df11-d5ab-4f76-b94c-50918be22621&pd_rd_w=j4DUO&pd_rd_wg=VwI9K&pf_rd_p=6b14f6e1-6ceb-4e91-8966-2e4ce0257d76&pf_rd_r=H2K4NTWZDC5AQ5J76WPH&psc=1&refRID=H2K4NTWZDC5AQ5J76WPH I have fitted one of these to the + & - leads from the solar panels just before the regulator so if required the solar panels can be isolated if required. I saw those too. Why not just fit one on the positive feed to the controller ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Trialsrider, Note that some of these devices work by 'sampling' the power going through. When that power is 230v and a strong supply it doesn't make any difference, but in winter on Solar 12v when you are not generating much power it can make a difference. If it were me I would keep it simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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