Cattwg Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 We have an Adria Twin 640 SPX on a 2018 Fiat Ducato, 2.3, 130, multijet 2. Like some other owners I’m disappointed with its performance, especially on hills, having to change down on even slight inclines. I was hoping that the sluggishness would improve with mileage but after 15000 miles this has not been the case, consequently I’m seriously considering having an in-line tuning box installed by TDI Tuning. On-line research suggests that the ECU version is relevant and whether or not the vehicle has a twin EGR. I’ve not been able to get to the bottom of either of these questions for our Adria. I realise that this topic has been raised before but I was hoping for up to date and first hand information and opinions. I would prefer the ‘black box’ to re-mapping as it’s easily reversed if there’s a problem. Cattwg :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 A 2018 (chassis build date) Multijet2 would be the twin EGR version. If your van is Euro6 or 6B then that would confirm this. Personally I would not consider a tuning box as these increase power by over-fuelling alone. Over-fuelling a diesel creates soot and therefore gives more work for the DPF to do, increasing soot load, regeneration frequency and associated oil dilution, reducing component life. Fuel economy gains reported by the onboard fuel computer (rather than brim-to-brim calculations) can be ignored as more fuel is being injected than the ECU thinks so its calculations are over-optimistic. Regarding power outputs I believe that the 130 version retains the MLGU6 gearbox while Fiat decided that the extra power and torque of the 150 warranted fitting the more robust M40 gearbox from the old 3.0L engine. In a similar vein the increases to the Euro6D 160 engine saw a modified crankshaft with bigger main bearings. The conclusion one could draw from this is that it might be best to stick with the power output that the designers intended. Personally (again) I wouldn't mess with the twin EGR powerplant at all as the low pressure EGR cooler seems so fragile with its gauze (probably a spark arrestor screen) subject to blocking and it being an 8 hour job to change it - more when Fiat fail to diagnose the problem correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefitz Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Your euro6 van, if it does not have Adblue then it's the dual circuit EGR system. This system even in standard tune is fragile and there is a possibility it may malfunction at some stage in the vans life, 30 k miles seems to be the mileage where issues may start to occur. It could be your vehicle has missed the software update that improves performance and help defer potential issues with the EGR system. Check with a Fiat Professional dealer. When the dual EGR needs fixing it can be very expensive in labour and parts up to £10k. Any increase in engine torque will destroy the MLGU6 gearbox fitted to the low power vans. The engine torque is lowered by Fiat from the advertised value to reduce warranty claims. It's a poorly designed two shaft gearbox, having all 6 gears, synchro hubs and support bearings within a short space. The M40 three shaft box allows everything to be much stronger. Summary, with the non adblue euro 6 van make sure you have the latest software. If your van has the MLGU6 box be aware it's delicate . Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cattwg Posted July 25, 2022 Author Share Posted July 25, 2022 Thank you Steve and Mike for your prompt replies. From your knowledgeable writings I guess you are both mechanics or similar? You have certainly given me pause for thought. My vehicle is Euro6 and pre Adblue. One question if I may. Is it only Fiat Professional who can check the software version and then update it if required? John :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefitz Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 A technical note was sent to Fiat professional in 2019 and perhaps all Fiat dealers regarding the issues with the EGR system. I understand it was recommended the software to be updated to version 0032. This adjusts fueling, the dpf regeneration process, and egr operation. It's not too clear what was happening, and Fiat aren't going to admit fault. My guess is fueling issues caused the DPF temperature to get too high, resulting in a fracture in the matrix. This allowed soot to enter the low pressure EGR system, blocking the 'tea strainer' filter. A Fiat ' cure' may involve replacement of high and low pressure EGR systems, all 4 fuel injection plus pipework, DPF , and assorted sensors. Either a 'parts cannon' and change the lot, or 'drip feed ' parts in the hope of a cure . My personal view is that there should have been a recall but this did not happen. A simple test to give an idea of DPF health is to look for soot at the end on the exhaust, there shold be zero soot. It's possible the software was updated when serviced at a Fiat main dealer. Any professional diagnostic system should read the version code but only Fiat and a few specialist independents with access to the Fiat system will be able to update the software. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 15000 is hardly run in I'd wait till 30000 before I did anything drastic like getting it chipped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cattwg Posted August 6, 2022 Author Share Posted August 6, 2022 witzend - 2022-08-04 8:46 PM 15000 is hardly run in I'd wait till 30000 before I did anything drastic like getting it chipped Thank you for your reply. However, several years ago we bought an Adria Twin (X 250) with just 5500 miles on the clock and it was far more responsive than my current vehicle. Admitted it was a different engine, 2.2 and Euro 5 from memory. We are very happy with the conversion layout of our current Adria but disappointed with the base vehicle performance. Cattwg :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 Over many years we have had many different engined vans and by far the quietest, smoothest and easiest to live with was, in my opinion, the Peugeot Euro 5 2.2 HDI. That said, we never had to endure all this modern techno politico emmisions crud and the unreliability and inconvenience that goes with it. I drove for a local dealer for a while and have driven quite a few newer vans and I remain sceptical and unimpressed with what Fiat/Peugeot call progress. No modern engines are slow any more but a Motorhome, even a PVC, is a large and heavy vehicle and the laws of physics apply to the way it drives, handles and stops. Driving a Motorhome is unlike driving a car and one needs to adapt one's driving style and expectations to the capabilities and limitations of the combined Motorhome and engine unit. Good progress can be maintained and many miles covered in a day when needed but it is never going to be car like performance wise. Achieve this, accept that a lower gear will be needed on a gradient, accept the limitatons of acceleration and retardation, accept the effects of inertia when changing direction and travelling becomes much more relaxed and enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 We had our 2016 PVC remapped costing £165.00 It was superb, much more relaxing to drive and slightly more economical. Best £165 I’ve spent for a long time. We travel mostly in France and down to our place in ALmoradi and enjoying our favourite place in the Alps. It caused no problems to the engine, some might say it will in the long run. 2 of my Renault masters were remapped and they did a phenomenal amount of miles and always fully loaded ( medical mobile workshop carrying large amounts of of stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted August 7, 2022 Share Posted August 7, 2022 Den - 2022-08-06 3:41 PM We had our 2016 PVC remapped costing £165.00 It was superb, much more relaxing to drive and slightly more economical. So why don't Fiat do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted August 7, 2022 Share Posted August 7, 2022 It is said that all vehicles are made to use fuel from around the world including those that use fuel to a lower quality to ours and probably most of Europe. I now now only use Shell fuel in all the vehicles I personally drive. Other drivers fill at various fuel stations excluding super markets. Only for the reason we have to 1p per ltr more for Tesco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 How do you know its Shell fuel? (Oil companies supply each other's filling stations to reduce lorry miles) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted August 11, 2022 Share Posted August 11, 2022 All companies probably share some fuels. But the additive used by all fuel stations is not common to one another. I can only surmise that shell is far better than supermarkets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 'All petrol and diesel sold in the UK must conform to British and European standards - EN228 for unleaded and for diesel EN590. ' https://www.allstarcard.co.uk/news-insights/fuel-and-fleet/fleet-news/supermarket-fuel/ All the marketing of fuel and other additives I have seen over the years has left me a bit cynical, so I just stick with the basic EN590 fuel and vehicle manufacturers recommendations. I can remember when supermarkets started selling fuel, undercutting filling stations. The only way they could justify their higher prices was by claiming, (apparently without foundation) that supermarket fuel was inferior. When they sold a duff car that conked out - 'have you been using supermarket fuel' etc *-) (ignoring the millions of people using supermarket fuel with no problems) But I don't know about the additives they put in their premium fuels. Shame the forum nerd Derek Uzzell has retired He would have been on to this (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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