Guest basileuo Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Hello Derek, I have started this as a new thread as it is a bit of topic for the origional posting, not being arguementative but feel that it is a worthwhile discussion. On the Motorhome Today site, www.motorhometoday.co.uk, there has been a discusion regarding the issue raised by you in your post of 23/01 re comparing magazines to websites, in which I have participated, and yes there are those that are giving up buying mags and switching to websites. Whilst this may be a minority at the moment maybe it should give the likes of Warners a warning to look at what they are publishing and see why a number of people are no longer satisfied with what they are getting out of the paper published word. Not particularly taking sides one way or another but I must confess to being disatisfied with MMM of late and will probably not renew my subscription this year. Now thats fine I am just one, but how many others feel this way? One interesting thing, to me anyway, I have noticed when giving up subscriptions to mags. is that you seem to be given lots of offers to entice you to renew but at no time, in my experience does anyone ask you why you are giving up your subs after so many years!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek Uzzell Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I think you need to revisit the 23/01 posting, as it wasn't me that made the website versus magazine comparison to which you refer - as far as I'm concerned it would be like comparing a duck with a sheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest basileuo Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 My apologies Derek, I thought that post 15 on the 23/01 thread was yours. I was just trying to investigate just how people saw the mag versus the web and why it appears some people, maybe not many, were finding MMM to be stale and out of touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Chapman Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Hello basileuo, Our thoughts on this subject, for what they are worth. When we started out Motor Caravanning we had a thirst for any information from magazines, the web, personal contact, dealers, sales brochures and shows. We were buying all the MC magazines and searching the on-line forums. This was OK for the first couple of years but gradually they started repeating the information and we then stopped subscribing to all but a few that we really liked. At present the wife enjoys the travel sections and I read the tests and technical bits. We now only subscribe to two magazines Motor Caravan and MMM and two forums MMM and MHF and occasionally buy into one of the others when there is something of particular interest. In that we do not think we are greatly different to the majority of motor caravanners. Each to his own. Personally we do not find MMM stale and out of touch (yet) but do get a bit miffed at paying out £32 pa for all those adverts. The web and magazines we see as complimentary rather than competing. The web can provide quick answers to problems which the magazines cannot quickly respond to and the magazines provide more structured reading and in-depth articles and tests. Why others feel the way they do will have to come from them. Regards, Mike and Kay Chapman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek Uzzell Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Basileuo: Post 15 was indeed mine, but the value-for-money merits of the MHF website subscription versus the cost of MMM were brought up in Post 14. What intrigued me was what logic "Tom" had used when assessing quite disparate information mediums and concluding that one could be 'worth' more to him than the other. (I still maintain it's a duck/sheep thing!) As you are dissatisfied with MMM in its present form why not start the ball rolling by giving your reasons for this and saying what you think Warners should do to improve matters? Perhaps there is another motorhome magazine you think superior and intend to subscribe to? Or will you be going Internet-only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trigrem Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 I will not bore people with a repeat of what Derek said as he has expressed my opinion in better words than mine. However I will emphasise that I would not consider giving up MMM in favour of websites as I find MMM has a good letters page and technical pages. And as we usually take MMM away with us to read at leisure with our feet up and a mug of tea, whilst relaxing after a good walk or waiting for the rain to stop before we get chance of a walk. We cannot do that with a website when parked on a CL or CS as we have no connection to the internet. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian Kirby Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 I'm puzzled. MMM is, in my experience, quite unique. I don't think I have ever read a magazine that combines such a wealth of useful information, some of it highly technical, with such a generous approach to space for readers' letters and reviews. OK, not every MH review is of interest, but just look at those cut away drawings, they are highly competent and so clearly expalin the layouts. Just consider the wealth of expertise available through Interchange. People write in describing problems with vehicles, and get better responses than I have ever had from garages in response to similar descriptions of problems with my various cars! I'm not simply setting out here to extoll the vitrues of MMM. My point is that all of this information and expertise has a price. Assembling all of this, every month, is very costly in time and human resources. If the current subscription seems high, just consider how high it would be without the advertising income, or how the magazine would have to change its approach and format to survive on the subscription revenues alone. Besides, the ads are useful. They provide information: granted not always exactly what you want and when you want it, but if it's connected with motorhoming, it's almost bound to be there somewhere. The question this raises in my mind, therefore, is what makes anyone think all of that could be provided cheaper via the internet. The articles would still have to be written and the problems considered and solved. That means salaries to pay, so there would still have to be a subscription. Advertising would still be needed to support production costs, so, presumably a welter of pop ups every time you logged on. Then you'd have to sit before your computer to read it, or print the bits that interested you to read in bed later. But then you'd be paying for your own paper and inks, as well as for access to the magazine. Downloading articles would stuff your mailbox for hours, to get all those high resolution images from Andy Stodhert! I just don't see how anything as good, or comprehensive could be provided for significantly lower cost, just because it appeared via the internet. I think, I'm afraid this really is a serious case of very wishful thinking. If you want a different magazinne, fine. Buy elsewhere. If you want MMM to change fine, but please be specific in how you wish it to change, so that others can also comment - just to be sure it doesn't become overly attentive to one person's preferences. MMM already has quite a large circulation, after all, so it must be regularly satisfying at least some of the people some of the time. But cheaper on the web? I sincerely doubt it, and I'm quite sure it wouldn't be any better! Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Chapman Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Hello Brian, Your comments above give a very good example of why there is no such thing as a FREE internet Forum. Subscription or no subscription yes but free no. No such thing as a free lunch!!! Regards, Mike Chapman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest basileuo Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Hello All Thanks for the measured responses and yes I can see the validity of what is being said. For my own part, and I said this in other discussions, I do happen to think that MMM is the best mag in its sector, thats why it is now the only one I currently still subscribe too. Derek threw down the challenge, quite fairly, to say what I would like to see in the mag, however it was not my intention to denigrate the mag in any way and I have to admit I really do not know myself what I am finding lacking, it just doesn't seem to do it for me any more. I just wondered what others thought about the Web versies Mag issue as I seem to spend more time on the Web nowdays than I did before. I wondered therefore, wheather anyone else found that maybe there was a correlation between this as it was raised in the previous topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest basileuo Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Hello All Thanks for the measured responses and yes I can see the validity of what is being said. For my own part, and I said this in other discussions, I do happen to think that MMM is the best mag in its sector, thats why it is now the only one I currently still subscribe too. Derek threw down the challenge, quite fairly, to say what I would like to see in the mag, however it was not my intention to denigrate the mag in any way and I have to admit I really do not know myself what I am finding lacking, it just doesn't seem to do it for me any more. I just wondered what others thought about the Web versies Mag issue as I seem to spend more time on the Web nowdays than I did before. I wondered therefore, wheather anyone else found that maybe there was a correlation between this as it was raised in the previous topic. With regard to Mike Chapmans comments re Free or not, the only thing about that is that I can understand a mag or publisher (Web or Mag) who is paying for the content of a mag or site having to make charges to cover production costs, but I can see no legitimate reason for a website made up from freely given materials and information from the users of the site to have to pay to access that information, other than to make a quick buck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian Kirby Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Apart from one factor, Basil. Someone has to set-up, run, maintain and moderate the site. Unless it's a hobbyist, therefore, there will be costs associated with those things. Also, I suspect, if the site is regarded as commercial, there will be an access charge and some kind of service charge. Given this, it could only be run as a non subscription site if the hoster was either looking for a payback by association (more business etc), was a charity otherwise funded, was very rich, or accepted advertising revenue. Ah, but wasn't that somewhere near where we came in? Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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