cruiser535 Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 We have a Ace Milano motorhome and have found when travelling in excess of 60mph on motorways that the vehicle can go quite light on the steering and you have the feeling that the vehicle could be uncontrolable. The solution would be to stay at 60mph but there are always going to be circumstances when you need to go over this. Has any one experienced this at all and if so how did you overcome it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Never experienced it and I have driven Auto Sleepers Talisman's and Nuevos at up to around 80 on occasions with absolutely no worries (NEVER in strong winds mind you) so it maybe sounds like design aero dynamics - or a lack of them? Unless of course you have tyres which are too hard or too soft or greatly differing pressures. Can I assume that all steering and suspension parts (front and rear) have been checked to MOT standard and are all OK, and the body to chassis bolts are all tight? Is it worse with strong head / tail / cross wind? What does the manufacturer say because as you are legally allowed to do 70 the vehicle should be safe at that speed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi Cruiser, I'm not doubting you have a problem but I am intrigued as to why you feel "............stay at 60mph but there are always going to be circumstances when you need to go over this". I've never encoutered a situation in any of my motorhomes/camper vans where I felt it was necessary to exceed 60 MPH. What kind of situation do you feel would require you to travel faster? As far as the actual problem is concerned this is not the first time I've heard of 'vans with large overcabs going "light" at speed and i suspect it's a combination of poor aerodynamics and over inflated tyres. The weight distribution in the 'van might also play a part in the situation so a visit to a weighbridge loaded as normal for touring might be expedient. If you find the 'van is close to it's limit on the back axle but relatively light on the front compared to the front axle capacity then this could quite easily affect handling at speed. If this does turn out to be the case then see what you can relocate inside the 'van to bring some weight up front, tinned foodstuffs for example could easily be stored in a front seat locker but are often kept in the more logical area of the kitchen. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 My wife coughs when the speedo needle aproaches 90 MPH and my wallet and necessity to drive with one eye in the mirror mean this is quite a rare occurance. My horns don't stick out often nowadays. But the Scout on the Merc Sprinter has no complaints. Handles well. Normally 56 MPH is sufficient on open roads although I will admit to being flashed by a camera in France last month (speedo said 62) and am still waiting for the envelope to drop through the letter box. I shall insist on a copy of the photo as proof then frame it. It was a lovely straight wide & empty bit of road though! C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griffly16 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Dave - 'I've never encoutered a situation in any of my motorhomes/camper vans where I felt it was necessary to exceed 60 MPH. What kind of situation do you feel would require you to travel faster? ' I would suggest that on a motorway with a 70mph speed limit, if the vehicle is allowed to do 70 then it should be at or around the speed limit. These days you fail your driving test if you do not drive at the correct speed (so long as the road conditions allow). Drivers doing 50 or 60 on a motorway can be a hazard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 It's an abvious question, but I'll ask it anyway: have you hung anything on the back such as a scooter rack - or have you loaded the m'home with serious weight behind the rear axle. If so (or even if not), I recommend getting down to your local weighbridge and getting 2 weights - total and one axle with the van on the level - the other axle should then be the difference. Then check the axle weights with the vahicle plate. If your front axle is very light (and the rear heavy), then that is likely to be the source of your problem. Weight behind the rear axle add MORE than their own weigh to that axle and reduce the load on the front axle by the same amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hello cruiser535, I think Mel E has hit on the problem, I feel that if you follow those lines of advice, you will cure the problem. I have seen this happen a few times over the years with employed drivers not bothering to put the load up front, through sheer laziness. They stick the heavy stuff just in side the doors and hope it doesn't fly up to the front and squash them, next they are complaining about the poor steering. Not such a common problem now that many commercial vans have side loading doors, less effort to put the load up front and balance the weight between the two axles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi Griffly, "I would suggest that on a motorway with a 70mph speed limit, if the vehicle is allowed to do 70 then it should be at or around the speed limit. These days you fail your driving test if you do not drive at the correct speed (so long as the road conditions allow). Drivers doing 50 or 60 on a motorway can be a hazard." Just because the road limit is 70MPH doesn't mean you have to drive at that speed. Trucks travel at 56MPH and don't cause a hazard! Speeding drivers who refuse to see past their own bonnet cause the hazard and most of the accidents. Speed limits are exactly that, LIMITS, not targets. I'm not claiming to be whiter than white, yes I've exceeded speed limits in the past (and sometimes by ridiculously high margins) but I grew up and don't bother now. A motorhome travelling at 70MPH can use up to 30% more fuel for the same journey. My average journey length in the motorhome is around 130 miles and this usually takes around two and a half to two and three quarter hours with an average speed of nearly 50MPH. If I cruised at 70MPH my average speed might come up to 60MPH in which case we would arrive about twenty minutes sooner but with a lot less fuel in the tank. Added to that everything is more stressd at higher speeds, the engine, transmission, suspension, tyres, me etc. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi cruiser 535 I would follow the advice to have the vehicle weights checked on a weighbridge but would also, once you have both axle weights, contact the tyre manufacturer's technical dept. Give them the weights and your tyre type/size and they will normally calculate the proper tyre pressures for you. Sometimes that can be a lot different to what they were set at when you bought it! Regards, david Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Clive .. being 'flashed' in France - I always thought you were a poser!!! Perhaps you ought to consider buying a camera instead to take photos of you and your van, it could prove a lot cheaper for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Interesting reactions to the notion of exceeding 60mph. But what is so significant about 60mph? This was not about legality, or how fast you can go: the point surely was that the vehicle was becoming unstable over 60, indicating that all was not as it should be.Legal limits do vary across Europe (OK, OK, not by that much!), and you don't want to end up upside down in the ditch just because you (legally) ran up to 80mph on a downhill stretch of autoroute. Your vehicle should remain reasonably stable up to around the maximum speed of which it is capable, whether that be legal or not. That should ensure you retain a margin of control to cope with the unexpected. Any lack of stability will be exacerbated by wind and bad road conditions and will prejudice your ability to maintain control if the need for sudden avoidance arises. I think that was the point.Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griffly16 Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi Dave, I'm not being deliberately argumentative, but you seem to have missed my point. 'Just because the road limit is 70MPH doesn't mean you have to drive at that speed. Trucks travel at 56MPH and don't cause a hazard! Speeding drivers who refuse to see past their own bonnet cause the hazard and most of the accidents. Speed limits are exactly that, LIMITS, not targets. ' If you don't think that trucks cause frustration and are not hazardous then I think you're in the minority. And speed limits are limits, yes, but as I stated - you would FAIL your driving test if you were not driving as close to the speed limit so long as the road conditions allow. You would be considered as 'driving with undue hesitation'. Just because you want to drive at a speed 25% less than the limit to conserve fuel to me, is not a valid argument when it comes to safety on the roads. Driving too slowly is just as dangerous as driving too quickly. A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 No one has mentioned tyres yet. Under inflation can cause this feeling and is more dangerous that over inflation. Most coachbuilts have a high centre of gravity and hence the effects of under inflation are magnified a bit. Most coachbuilt motorhome manufacturers specify tyre pressures for a fully laden vehicle irrespective of how much junk you put in. Its madness to lower the pressures for a softer ride. Weighbridge is a good move as well. Interestingly our MH always handled well even when we were nearly half a tone over weight on the back axle with the two motorcycles on the rack for 7 years. (80PSI in the rear tyres) But now we have seen the error of our ways (Thanks a bunch Mel E.) and have a lightweight trailer and a legal motorhome. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Hi Griffly, I didn't take your point as argumentative mate, but my real question was when does one NEED to go past 60MPH? Clive if you look back to post 3 by myself you willl see that I mentioned tyre (over)inflation as well as poor weight distribution as possible contributory factors to the problem. Brian, you are absolutely correct and my apologies to everyone for starting a discussion that was tangential to the original. The Ace Milano is a luton overcab coachbuilt but I'm not certain of it's styling, I did think it had a large luton with a side profile similar to a wing but after a quick trawl of the web the only pictures I can find seem to be lowline lutons. If it is a low line model then aerodynamics probably aren't playing a great part in the problem and it's almost certainly down to tyre pressures and weight distribution. If, however, the luton is large and wing like then this might influence matters somewhat. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Can we assume that the van's tyres are proper commercial rated and not car tyres as this can cause all manner of problems - apart from being illegal and downright dangerous. It does happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 [QUOTE]Dave Newell - 2006-07-12 7:48 AM Clive if you look back to post 3 by myself you willl see that I mentioned tyre (over)inflation as well as poor weight distribution as possible contributory factors to the problem. D.[/QUOTE] Me too - on post 9. david Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griffly16 Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Hi Dave, Fair enough. Let's agree to differ. I suppose you don't NEED to do more than 60, but I'd be happier driving a bit faster. Not if the vehicle felt unsafe though ;-) Cheers Griff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 OK Griff, no problem mate. I would think it very unlikely that the 'van has car tyres (although I do accept it's not impossible) and I think over inflation is likely to be a big part of the problem, possibly Michelin XC camping tyres at 80 PSI? D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 [QUOTE]cruiser535 - 2006-07-10 8:28 PM We have a Ace Milano motorhome and have found when travelling in excess of 60mph on motorways that the vehicle can go quite light on the steering and you have the feeling that the vehicle could be uncontrolable. The solution would be to stay at 60mph but there are always going to be circumstances when you need to go over this. Has any one experienced this at all and if so how did you overcome it.[/QUOTE]So, in summary, as has so often been said:1 Load the 'van fully, as it normally is when you travel.2 Go to a weighbridge and get the loads on both axles as well as the overall weight.3 Check the rating plate on the van to see if either axle, or the whole 'van, is over weight.4 If anything is overweight, reduce load until legal, and then road test to see if the steering is better.5 If that doesn't work, contact the tyre manufacturer, with the actual axle loads and tyre type and size, and see what pressures he recommends. Reset pressures and road test again.6 If that doesn't work, take to service agent for steering geometry check.If none of that works - new van!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Umble apologies. I speed read and did not pick up on tyres mentioned previously. Now look what I have stired up! Must go, busy packing the van for tomorrow. Regards C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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