Roof Crack Help / Advice needed

[Paul.S]

Hi,

 

I am thinking of buying a motorhome but it has a crack in the roof (see photo). The motorhome had a bump which caused some damage which the seller has had repaired. The seller has said there is no damp and I tend to believe him. He appears to be a genuine guy. Any thoughts on the long terms risks and if a more permanent repair can be done and the likely cost? Can this sort of damage creep / extend?

 

BTW, the motorhome is 2005. The owner has his own MOT station and service station but this is his motorhome, he is not a trader. Its low mileage (circa 20k) and the engine looks new. The underside / chassis of the motorhome has been recently sealed and also looks new. Mot history is excellent.

 

The seller advised there has been damp previously coming in from the area of the bump and also in the garage area but both are now fixed. Any thoughts would be welcome.

 

kind regards

[stevec176]

Yes, run away unless you want to pay for a new roof and it will cost you thousands. Who would want to buy it off you when you decide to sell it. Run away and buy something else.

My friend has an Adria and during last years hab check damp was found in the shower roof area. Further investigation found the roof had cracked around the skylight and now he's waiting for the roof to be replaced, thankfully under warranty.

[Derek Uzzell]

It might help to know the make and model of motorhome Paul is referring to, just in case 'cosmetic' roof-cracking is a known phenomenon.

 

(To attach a file to a posting on these forums, the file-size MUST NOT exceed 100kb.)

[Paul.S]

Its a Burstner T615 Harmony.

 

Are the photos I posted visible?

[_Chris]

Paul.S - 2021-04-04 10:27 AM

 

The underside / chassis of the motorhome has been recently sealed and also looks new. Mot history is excellent.

 

kind regards

The sealant prevents a proper inspection and you would expect the MOT history to be excellent if the owner runs an MOT test centre.

[Keithl]

No photos in either of your posts.

 

Keith

[Paul.S]

hopefully photos now uploaded

[Keithl]

Paul.S - 2021-04-04 6:40 PM

 

hopefully photos now uploaded

No, try reading this...

OAL Moderator - 2006-08-22 11:31 AM

 

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[Paul.S]

Just tried adding photos again. It appears to work. The files are with the size range. So fingers crossed this time.

[Paul.S]

Getting the following error. Any thoughts?

 

 

Request object error 'ASP 0104 : 80004005'

 

Operation not Allowed

 

/forums/includes/include-upload.asp, line 51

[Guest pelmetman]

Paul.S - 2021-04-04 10:27 AM

 

Hi,

 

I am thinking of buying a motorhome but it has a crack in the roof (see photo). The motorhome had a bump which caused some damage which the seller has had repaired. The seller has said there is no damp and I tend to believe him. He appears to be a genuine guy. Any thoughts on the long terms risks and if a more permanent repair can be done and the likely cost? Can this sort of damage creep / extend?

 

BTW, the motorhome is 2005. The owner has his own MOT station and service station but this is his motorhome, he is not a trader. Its low mileage (circa 20k) and the engine looks new. The underside / chassis of the motorhome has been recently sealed and also looks new. Mot history is excellent.

 

The seller advised there has been damp previously coming in from the area of the bump and also in the garage area but both are now fixed. Any thoughts would be welcome.

 

kind regards

 

MOT history is irrelevant to the conversion part :-| ........

 

That said it dosen't mean the damage has not been repaired properly........ if I were you I'd spend a few quid on a habitation inspection ;-) ...........

 

If the seller is genuine he wont object ........

 

 

[Paul.S]

I'm having a nightmare with the photos :-(

[Keithl]

Paul.S - 2021-04-04 8:27 PM

 

I'm having a nightmare with the photos :-(

Paul, the error you posted implies the file size is still too large.

 

I'll mail you my email address and If you mail them to me I'll have a look and try to post them for you.

 

Keith.

[Paul.S]

i'll try again in the morning. thanks for all your help and comments.

[Paul.S]

Yeah, I think I've added a photo.

[Guest pelmetman]

Paul.S - 2021-04-04 9:09 PM

 

Yeah, I think I've added a photo.

That's not a crack ;-) .........

 

That's a join......The mastic fails and needs redoing on a regular basis in my 31 years of experience with the same camper :-| .......

 

The mistake many make is to put new mastic on top of old mastic which is only ever a temporary repair *-) .......

 

It needs trimming and scraping back to bare roof/moulding and then new mastic applied......which will then last a few years.......If your lucky :D ........

 

The best cure I've found to prevent damp is a garage B-) ...........

[Paul.S]

Hi Again,

 

The way the seller described the damage is that the van was driven into something at low speed and it lifted the roof. I believe the top side indicator area got caught on something. He got damp in the van as a consequence. He needed to replace some of the timber in and around the damaged area and get the roof resealed. There is a small crack that can be seen just in front of the sealant (to the left as you look at the photo). There is also a very minor crease in the side panel as shown on my second photo. This was hardly noticeable.

 

regards

[Derek Uzzell]

I’ve tweaked Paul’s photos to make the damage clearer (revised images attached below)

 

I think the crease in the body’s side-panel is where I’ve 'red-arrowed' on the upper image, and the arrow on the lower image clearly shows the crack in the glass-fibre moulding of the over-cab ‘pod’.

 

To cause this type of damage, the accident must have applied a lot of force to the motorhome’s body near to the left-hand high-level marker light. I’d echo Stevec176’s view about walking away from this sale as there’s no certainty that the repairs will prove effective long term and (realistically) it will not be practicable to successfully address/disguise the crease in the aluminium body panel.

 

The motorhome’s asking-price has not been mentioned, but I note that a 2005 Burstner T615 Harmony is currently advertised for £23K on the Motorhome Depot website.

 

https://www.motorhomedepot.com/vehicle/burstner-harmony-t615?sold=3

[Paul.S]

Hi all,

 

Thanks Derek, thats spot on in terms of the damaged areas.

 

I am not too bothered about cosmetic damage i.e. the crease in the side panel. In truth I didn't notice it when I viewed the motorhome even though I focused on the area quite a bit because of the roof damage. Obviously I could see it when I got home and studied the photos. I guess what I am trying to say is the crease is not too noticeable.

 

I am also not concerned about resale value. We would intend to keep this until the end of its life. What I don't want though is a van that is going to have long term damp problems that will require frequent and expensive repair costs / ongoing damp issues. Appreciate there are no guarantees going forward; I just don't want to spend, what to me is a large sum on money on something that already has a significant problem.

 

The price of the van is £19k.

 

regards

[Keithl]

Paul,

 

If that damage was professionally repaired then I have to say it is the worst repair I have ever seen!

 

Judging by the way the sealer is finished and that the crack in the roof panel and crease on the side panel are still very visible I would question how any repairs within have been dealt with?

 

If you want a MH for the long run then my view would be to find one that has not suffered that sort of structural damage or you will always be waiting for the dreaded damp patch to appear!

 

The only exception would be if you are a very experienced DIY'er and were prepared to undertake a complete re-repair of that area yourself.

 

Keith.

[Paul.S]

OK, thanks again all.

 

The opinions appear to be more or less unanimous - especially as I would not be competent to repair significant damage myself. I think I'll take your advice and look for something else.

 

Its pretty tough going trying to find anything half decent on my budget, been looking for a year now with no luck.

 

kind regards

 

 

[stevec176]

Don't know what your budget is or what you're looking for but I spent over a year too before making my purchase. Is the reason you can't find what you want due to your expectations or just the budget, are you willing to compromise or are you just looking for the ideal van, which probably isn't out there. As I said at the beginning walk away there will be your ideal van out there somewhere, good luck.

[Paul.S]

Budget is circa £20k. We want something 6m ideally but could go a little bigger. An A class would be my ideal because we want something with a fixed bed and at 6m it would take up a lot of room if its not an A class drop down bed. We would compromise on the A class though as we were thinking of doing with the Burstner if something catches our eye. We expect to get something 20 years old for circa £20k and less than 80k mileage. It would have to have a good MOT history or least an MOT history that is not littered with corrosion. Service history would also be desirable but not necessarily dealership / garage history, a good set of receipts as evidence would probably suffice.

 

I have seen a Pilote which has 80k miles and is within my budget. Its 21 years old. Excellent MOT history. Some signs damp above the drop down bed but recent habitation check has come back more or less clean with some exceptions around the windows where readings just creep into the monitor category. The damp above the bed is apparently the result of a wet mattress being left when not in use. The van looks good inside, out and underneath given age. My concern is that somebody has been messing with the wiring and the cabin area looks like the inside of a BT cabinet. Any thoughts? Photos attached of damp and wiring

 

kind regards

 

[Brian Kirby]

Paul.S - 2021-04-05 2:27 PM.............................................Some signs damp above the drop down bed but recent habitation check has come back more or less clean with some exceptions around the windows where readings just creep into the monitor category. The damp above the bed is apparently the result of a wet mattress being left when not in use. kind regards

The above worries me, particularly the comment about damp above the bed being the result of a wet mattress being left in the van. In the absence of further information to explain how this might have happened, I doesn't ring true. First, unless present in an absorbent substance, water naturally migrates down - gravity and all that! :-) Is this actual damp, or just mould resulting from excess humidity created by the wet mattress? Second, how did the mattress get wet? Folk don't usually leave them outside! I can't see a rooflight above the bed in your picture, but there seems to be an odd joint cover strip towards the top of the picture. I also gain the impression that the headlining is loose in some areas. This may be due to condensation on the underside of the cab roof, possibly indicating inadequate insulation in this area.

 

A class vans tend to sell at a premium, so you are looking for an originally expensive van in a price range where conventional coachbuilts may give better value. The age range imposed by the budget means that almost anything you can find will come from an era when almost all vans were constructed on a timber frame, and many had plywood floors. Any level of water ingress over that time is liable to have produced rot in the frames, so the integrity of all external seams is critical to durability. The external seams are invariably either pointed with, or bedded, onto sealants. There were excellent construction sealants available 20 years ago, but the motorhome and caravan (from which the construction techniques were developed) industry did not, generally, use them. The sealants favoured then tended to be fairly low tech "mastics" that deteriorate over time from UV light and thermal cycling - just what one wants on a roof!!! Also, the joints themselves tend to be poorly designed (if at all!!), amounting to little more than two differing materials, frequently GRP and sheet aluminium (which have differing rates of thermal expansion to induce physical stress in the sealant) just bodged together as shown in your pictures of the Burstner roof.

 

So, as Pelmetman says above, the sealants need to be replaced periodically to keep the seams weathertight.

 

If you want a van, and are constrained to 20 year old vans, you will need good general DiY skills if you want to avoid having to pay commercial rates for repairs and maintenance. All motorhomes are assembled by hand, meaning that the quality of assembly will vary. A 20 year motorhomes may be as sound as a bell, riddled with leaks and rot, or anything between. If regularly serviced, the mechanical components should be sound - with the possible exception of the Ducato gearboxes of that era that were prone to water ingress leading to premature failure. There were also numerous problems with the 5th gear resulting from a 4 speed box having been adapted to 5 gears by adding an "extension" in a way that left 5th gear short of lubrication, causing premature wear. It was a fairly easy (even DiY) fix, and I think there may have been a kit of bits to do it, but I have no idea whether the parts (basically a new 5th gear) are still available.

 

The problem is that the base vans on which motorhomes were (and are) built are engineered for a short brutal life during which they will cover intergalactic mileages - and not for posterity! As others have said, you are looking for a rare bird. It is almost certainly there, but it will take a lot of sniffing out, and a knowledgeable eye, to identify it when you see it.

 

People tend to buy these vehicles when they are thinking of, or have, retired. As they age they tend to hang onto the van - in case - so the vans spend increasing time just standing as the years slide by, until the point at which their owners realise they aren't going to be able to use them further and decide to sell. Fresh eyes will then see the un-noticed deterioration that has taken place while the van was standing - just in case.

 

No old vehicle is cheap to keep running, and old motorhomes, with their beds, washrooms, toilets, fridges, water and space heaters, electrical systems (12V and 230V), habitation and starter batteries, water tanks and pumps, are a lot more complicated than almost any other type of vehicle. To this mix must be added that spare parts for anything installed by the converter will almost certainly now be out of production, leaving specialised scrap dealers as the only sources for certain items.

 

I probably sound by now as though I'm trying to put you off, which is not at all the case! What I'm trying to say is that from what you have posted to date, I gain the impression that you may be thinking that you can by a "golden oldie" and then run it on a shoestring. You may be lucky in finding the golden oldie, but I think you are likely to be be sorely disabused over the "running it on a shoestring" bit. Motorhomes, largely because of their complexity, but also because they are not built to last 20 or more years (they are built primarily to sell - for which they must look appealing above all else), but just long enough to keep the warranty claims under a commercially acceptable level! So, cynic that I am, I think you should be prepared for relative high maintenance costs that will arise when the van thinks appropriate, and never when you think convenient.

 

That is just me. I'm sure others will put forward alternative, and probably more constructive (:-)), views. Good luck in your search, and proceed with caution.

[Paul.S]

Hi Brian,

 

Thank you for taking the time to provide such a detailed response. Definitely lots of food for thought.

 

Out of interest and given the obvious depth of knowledge you have, what kind of budget do you think is needed to buy something that is likely to require less maintenance. Whats age do you think we should be considering and what sort of mileage?

 

We were initially looking for something more expensive but got put off by the electric vehicle conundrum. While I understand you will still be able to trade diesel vans after 2030, there is the concern about the impact on value and also what the government could do with tax to get them off the roads.

 

Our £20k budget was based on a figure that we felt we would need no return on and was hoping it would give is circa 7 years motorhoming. If we go for something more expensive we would need a return to fit in with our retirement plan; hence our dilemma. I never though it would be maintenance free, but your response has really made me think.

 

I guess we are buying at the worst possible time with Covid stay-cations where it appears that everyone is after a caravan or motorhome to facilitate self contained holidays.

 

Further thoughts from you and everyone else would be very much appreciated.

 

kind regards