Room to move and travel

[Guest Jules]

Many thanks for your very fast replies to caravan V motorhome subject heading. Our requirements are after 13 years of camping, having another 13 plus but with a bit of luxury. We are also attracted to hideaway sites rather than having to go to sites that have disco, clubhouse, football space for free range children and things akin to Butlins; (yak!) however these sites have showers, toilets (heated a big bonus on cold days, standing under the hot air hand dryer until its time to leg it to the canvass again)and a campshop with milk, bread and fresh items you can't keep or carry. We looked at van conversions but on looking inside I knew that I could not live in such a small space although single track roads would pose no problem and we would still be able to see a small road on the map to explore as we do now with a roll of canvass in the back. They looked to snug for two lean adults and one small Staffy terrier. We decided to eliminate a van conversion and try to stay with a motorhome under 6 metres. (ferry costs) We have lots of time to think about our purchase as we have to move house as we live in a tiny cottage on a tiny single track road with no off road parking! and no local farm is receptive to renting us car parking??? After reading Clives mail I think I have eliminated a caravan idea, the caravan thought came to me when I thought about how many height retricted parking areas we see. When we were in Arran nearly all the forest walk car parks were blocked and our only worry was; where would you leave the vehicle? Do many of you encounter this? I guess now we are looking and thinking we will see it more, or are these things just being added everywhere? The fiat/peugeot engine bothers me and after Clives comment again, I think we now can look to select a motorhome less than 6 metres and with maybe a VW engine or Ford? I was also very interested in Daves comment re wild camping. We love Scotland and plan to sell up here, move to a cheap rented base and tour all the highlands (where we will eventually live) the islands and Orkneys and wild camp. This was inspired by an article in MMM where someone had done this and found the islands ideal and facilities to do it and refresh the motorhome. If we can't wild camp in a caravan then it is truly rejected. I also see you said you were not a fan of Compass, is this based on the chassis make? I acknowledge Dave B's comments on caravan safety, we have both seen caravans waddle as HGV's pass them and many turned over on motorways, my dad has tales of bad weather and towing at 40mph on a bad day! i have done some large trailer towing and when I worked in fire and rescue I drove all manner of trailered tenders and large vehicles, I'm thinking that caravans maybe have the disadvantage of being light and high sided???? or maybe being driven too fast and bouncing behind as they do down or tiny road on occasion. I bet you have had all these questions before but bear with me until I've read a bit more, it is a really exciting thing to look forward to purchasing, we need the advice of motorhome owners in order to help us make the right choice. Many thanks for replies,comments and wisdom in advance. Jules and Charles

[Guest PeteC]

Hi Jules We have opted for a Renault Master converted bt Devon Conversions It is 6 m - a few cm The Renault Turbo deisel engine leaves many cars standing especially on hills We did the Grossglockner (8258m Alt.) no problem except that the straights were too short for us to get into 5th Gear It cruises all day at motorway speeds (2days Gibralter to Bilbao) It is a bit narrower than the coach built but you soon geet used to it. Any way it is an advantage on those MWay works we can fit into the car lane and not be fast in the truck lane We are 2.8 m high so have to watch for those low barriers - but who hasnt We have a permenently made up bed in the rear Oh and it does an average 35mpg

[Guest malc]

After 40 years of tent camping we went into motorhoming just two years ago and found it quite difficult to decide on a vehicle. We found the best way is to visit several motorhome shows and look at ALL types/ makes within you criteria,( not just the big dealers). If are limiting yourself to 6 metres ( as we did )I shouldn't think there is much difference between a coachbuilt and a van conversion. Good luck

[Guest Brian Ramsden]

I have had 3 Peugeot based 'vans in 15 years, and I average 10,000 miles a year and I would buy another. Bearing in mind that the vast majority of conversions come on a Fiat chassis, you would very much restrict your choice by ruling out Fiat. If they were that bad, you would see many more complaints in MMM. I think your choice of 6 metres is wise, if you want to be able to travel virtually anywhere. The extra width of a coachbuilt does have a downside, as many width limits are 2 meters - some panel van conversions would just come under this limit. However, I think the extra width is worth the sacrifice if you are planning extended trips.

[Guest Mike T]

Hi Jules and Charles We changed over from towing caravans for 20 years to a motorhome in 2000 we went for a 6 berth 7.3mt.van on a Peugeot chassis a very nice van but we found 5th gear was too high and a very low payload 460kg.this was not enough payload with a scooter on the back, we were only just legal with very little on board for 2 people on long trips . So we decided to change after spending a lot of time looking at our options we went for an A class as this was the only practical way of meeting our need’s 6.3 mt with a 800kg payload are very pleased with it, is on fwd Fiat chassis and. we have covered 18k in it since we purchased second hand 2 years ago no problem . Un like” Clive”I am quite happy with the Fiat base motorhome [ Just changed the cam-belt before our last trip in a few hours no problem ] But my experiences with Mercedes Sprinter’s is different I would not buy one but that’s me personal choice for 2years I drove a Mercedes Sprinter Luton van it had two cylinder heads go ant-roll bar Brackets snapping and gear box problems 4 teeth snapped on the final drive gear out of the gearbox !! the mechanic had the box out in 30 min’s while I was still waiting for my lift home and said these go a lot when that get some mileage on them mind you it did have 85K on the clock!! in all it was about 2grand to get it back on the road [inc hireing a van for a week] so think hard what it is you require before makeing your mind up !! as the previous posting said there plenty of different chassis out there to buy I am quite happy with my Fiat 2.8idtd unit Regards Mike T

[Guest Clive]

On after 7 years the only bits replaced on our Sprinter are the flexible spill off pipes between the injectors, these get porous after a while and it starts to smell. I had this done in a garage in France on a Sunday, it was just outside warranty but they did it FOC because I asked for the failed pipes back so I could claim when I got home. I cannot knock Mercedes Service in Europe. Also don,t forget that more of the motorhome weight is on the rear wheels. If you like exploring mountains as we do then thats where you need the drive. But Fiat's are as cheep as chips so they sell lots of them. However, next time you are driving up a motorway, just take note of the white vans that whoosh past regularly in the outside lane. That might help you make up your mind.

[Guest David Powell]

Hello again Jules and Charles. Another important observation that has not been brought up yet is "lay out". If you think about it, the first thing you do in a new house is spend a lot of time deciding where to put the furniture. Same with a motor home, but where it is built in to, is pretty well where it has to stay, so make sure it is the lay out that you can live with, before you buy. Another thing, I always have rear wheel drive, better traction on wet grass and muddy fields.

[Guest Paul]

Hi Jules I did not see this post until after I answered your previous one. Just to comment that the wind does in fact affect high sided coachbuilt m/homes as well, whilst it is a different feeling to that with a caravan car combo it is still affected and I have to say that during my time towing I never experienced a 'snake' and nor did the wind ever do anything to put me off towing. I point out again only because you actually have lumped Fiat/Peugeot together, that Peugeots in some cases use their own engine and box not the Fiat one. I have covered 65968 mls in mine now, the only repair needed so far has been one half shaft UJ boot that split and was loosing grease. The only other work has been regular servicing and one cambelt change.(I do hope that has not put the mockers on it).

[Guest Charles]

Thanks Paul, your Peugeot sounds very reliable. Re engines in the Sevel 'vans, which ones have Peugeot's own, is it just the 2.2 litre models? Charles

[Guest Ruth]

Hi another thought, if you want to wild camp you might want to consider size of water tanks somewhere to store an extra loo cassette room to fit another couple of leisure batteries bear in mind that wild camping is not always easy or possible in Britain, but there are some places that are easier than others and northern scotland is one of them (still with provisos) Regards, Ruth

[Guest pete walker]

hi, if your looking for a compact coachbuilt you could take a look at a auto-sleeper clubman on a vw chassis, ours is a 2.4 ltr diesel although a 2.5 is susposed to be better(more omphh) we are happy with ours for the past 9 years. nice and compact, no problems with height barrier free car parks as they fit a normal size bay and 30 mpg. pete

[Guest Brian Ramsden]

So far as I know, any 'van with a Peugeot badge has a Peugeot engine and gearbox. My Peugeot based 'van is an Auto-Sleeper Talisman and is 5.7M long and 2.4M wide. I find this a good compromise, and apart from 2M width restricted roads I have not had any problems in going places or in parking - apart from height barriers. This is in 9 years/60,000 miles. However, if you are intending to do a lot of "wild camping" I would hesitate to recommend an A/S 'van, as they have not got sufficient water and waste tank capacity, and it would be difficult to find space for the extra leisure battery you would need. Going back to an earlier post, if you rule out front wheel drive 'vans, you will again find your choice severly restricted. I agree that RWD if better, but if you are limiting your length to under 6M then the advatage of RWD is less, as the weight differential front v rear is not great. It is only long 'vans with a large rear overhang which really suffer. This assumes that you are not going to hang anything heavy on the back. Go for a FWD if that is what the vehicle which appeals to you has, and buy a set of chains for soft ground.

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

Ref (7) - if we are talking about current SEVEL base-vehicles, all the diesel engines are Fiat units, except for the 2.2 litre motor used in Peugeot/Citroen chassis.

[Guest Paul]

Our m/home is a 1999 Elddis Autostratus CK on Peugeot Boxer 2.5 TD, I have no plans to change, it is briliant, this engine and box is a Peugeot (pre common rail). The new 2.2 has a similar power output, despite being lower capacity, and is common rail so if I was changing that would be on my list. Despite having had new cars every 3yrs for the last 21 years I would not buy a new m/home as the initial loss is to high, (from personal experience) I would look for a good non dealer second user one, but that is my personal decision. I would not buy a Fiat engined vehicle being put off from past experience. But you need to check out and decide for yourself.

[Guest Mel B]

Hi Jules We've had a converted ambulance which we then sold and got an old Elddis coachbuilt (18ft), once we had decided that we would use the 'van a lot more, we decided to upgrade to a new Swift 590RS coachbuilt in 2001 (the pre-facelift one). Never again - the size of the van and layout was more than plenty for us but we found it had horrendous problems with wind ... as in blowing it all over that is! It was also a pain to try to heat as all the air went up to the ceiling. It was just under the magic 6 metre length but the extra 45cm (18inches) over our previous Elddis made parking a nightmare at times. As there's just the two of us (and our pooches) we decided to down-size to a low profile Rapido 709F motorhome (Fiat 2.3jtd) - fixed bed in the rear, toilet/shower compartment, half dinette and only just over 5.5 metres long. We rarely have problems parking as we can usually hang it's little bottom over the kerb edge in car parks, but it is small enough to park on the street. It is very easy to keep it warm and cosy and the luxury of a made up bed at the end of a tiring day ... pure bliss! My advice is - don't get a coachbuilt with a large overcab 'pod', and preferably without one at all, as they can really cause 'drag' problems when travelling and even when parked up for the night when wild camping you will really know if it's a bit windy outside. Our little motorhome travels wonderfully on it's Fiat 2.3jtd engine, we've already put over 10K miles on it and not had any problems with the engine. It goes like a pocket rocket when you need it for overtaking (and beating the boy racers away from the traffic lights ... well, we have to have some fun in this life!). Our previous motorhome was on the Fiat 2.8 (un-turboed) - not to be recommended in this form - very sluggish. Have a good mooch around at the various shows - Peterborough isn't bad (I think it's in April), but York is far superior (September). Oh, a bit of advice on the Fiat engines - the 2.8jtd it supposed to be very good but for a smaller motorhome is probably going over the top power wise. The 2.3 jtd is a bit more refined than the 2.8jtd (it's newer) and quite quiet by comparison. The 2.0jtd - don't touch it with a barge-pole unless your motorhome is VERY small indeed, they simply don't have the grunt to move the beasts and you'll be in the same position we were with the un-turboed 2.8 ... crawling along and watching the world, and the other traffic, go by! Don't forget to update us in the future when you're made your choice!

[Guest Jules]

Hi Mel, Thanks for the info on engines, we both look at some motorhomes and think how does that engine move that? It seems in some cases with huge difficulty. Heating.... this is a big question in my mind, I have seen folks driving their motorhome in our area and they seem to dress for an arctic exploration rather than travel to a campsite. We are looking for a compact motorhome because we really do clock up miles once we get to an area, we need to be able to get down small lanes and take shortcuts and admire the area rather than be confined to motorway or large roads. The point you made about the overcab bed has absolutely answered all our questions about this, Charles thought it might cause a lot of drag/fuel burn and his thoughts on windy weather were correct. I'm sure with all these tips and the experience of the forum we will make the right purchase. We have been looking at the Nuevo, low profile as standard, this ticks all the boxes in self sufficient needs and lay out and size, its down side is that it has small waste tanks and £££££££huge to go to the 2.2 engine! Has anyone got one of these?? happy? unhappy? I also love the clubman and Gatcombe but... I can't see the difference between them? they both look the same. Any answers? Of course if we wanted to rely on campsites with all facilities I would have.....A VW campervan! I love them!! Jules and Charles

[Guest Brian Ramsden]

My Talisman is about the same size as Mel's Rapido, but with the luton, and I can't imagine how we would manage when going away for 3 months at a time without all that extra storage in the luton. Its all a compromise, isn't it?

[Guest Jules]

Yes and its a big £££ scary compromise too! We will be in a position to extend our stay anywhere and for any length of time and so I take on board what you are saying. Storage is important and I have not thought deeply enough about spare space for long trips. We have seen motorhomes with what they claim are overcab beds but goodness help you if you sit up fast in a sleepy state! I could see this area I thought as unusable being good for storage. I've seen a few motorhomes with huge rolls of space on top of the drivers cab, I must say these huge rolls of space do not appeal to me personally. We both travel very light and therefore the wardrobe would house all our needs clothes wise, when we went abroad we both checked in a rucksack each for two weeks and a bum bag held valuables! So as you see, if we don't need it, it does not go. When I saw lines of overhead lockers I wondered if I would fill them all? Oops of course as a bookworm I am sure that one would become a bookcase! The kitchen seems super on some models and is important because I have certain medical diet needs and eating out and eating junk food is a no no, so its a good job I love to chef! Can I ask cooks among you.... Do the ovens really work as well as ovens at home? or are they little more than plate wamers? also do they bleed away the gas fast? You know slow but sure you are all helping to clarify things in addition to introducing us to things we had not thought of. many thanks Jules and Charles

[Guest David]

Hi Jules, Yes the ovens do work we have cooked a full roast for 4, many times over the last 30+ years in Caravans and Motorhome, Whilst the oven is cooking your tea/dinner it is also warming the interior. We have never had problems heating wise especially travelling, we have a Fiat based vehicle 12 years old, the cab heater is great, anyway I cant stand driving with a coat on. As for the lockers yes you will fill them!!!! David

[Guest David Powell]

Hi Jules...On storage space, as David says in (17) you will fill the lockers, but I am sure as you are used to living under canvas, you are minimalists which is a good thing, so when all your lockers gradually get full, chuck out what you don't need. Please think carefully before adding a back box and a top box, roughly speaking every pound in a back box on a coachbuilt adds two pounds to the back axle, and lifts half a pound off the front axle (moments about a point) and if not very careful loading the weights the handling of the vehicle can become treacherous on a wet road,and trying to take off on a steep hill with a front wheel drive can turn into a non event. A top box plays havoc with the aerodynamics, which you have already observed when you refered to high bulky overcab bedrooms. I am begining to think it is time someone put all these posts together and wrote a book. "Buy your dream, by the Forum team" or something.

[Guest ruth]

Hi Jules yes the oven is an assett if you like to cook, also doubles as storage (bread? pans?) in a tiny kitchen Storage that is not immediately obvious but that you must consider: bedding if bed not a permanent one outdoor table, chairs, bbq etc plus levelling blocks, hookup cable, toolkit etc bulky and or dirty things such as hiking boots extras like siver screens for cab window-soft but bulky these are just "off the top of my head" and there will be more, but you can see that an overcab for soft but bulky things and exterior lockers for ouitdoor stuff would come in very handy indeed Might be a ggood idea to make friends with e motorcaravanners on a campsite and see what they bring and where they store it Regards, Ruth

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

Jules: While Internet forums can be wonderfully helpful, nothing beats a book for providing a comprehensive overview. So here are 2 publications that might help polarise your thoughts. 1. MMM's "Guide to buying a motorhome" (see READER OFFERS in the STORE box at the top of each forum page). 2. John Wickershams' recently-revised "The Motorcaravan Manual" (Haynes Publishing) that all motorcaravanners, experienced or aspiring, should have on their book-shelves. (And, if you'd like a free buyers' guide, please contact me on derek.uzzell@talk21.com and I'll e-mail you a copy of my home-grown version.)