trialsrider Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 Firstly, Merry Xmas. Went into the van tonight to do a quick job in the van and total darkness. Found my torch in the drawer and checked the Sargent unit and it was blank. Flipped the mode to van engine battery instead of leisure battery and it switched on. Flipped it back to leisure battery and it switched off again. Put it on van engine battery again, checked every 12v appliance in the van and everything is working normally as it should. My leisure battery is tucked away behind a panel which I would have to unscrew to get to but I'm hoping it's something simple like one of the terminal connectors has popped off. This would be unlikely as they are on tightly. But what else could it be ? Any ideas ? Everything works on hook up and when switched to engine battery mode on the Sargent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickt Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 Could be dead battery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 Mickt - 2018-12-26 11:17 PM Could be dead battery I'm hoping it isn't as it is only a year old and has been well maintained and regularly used. But you never know. Do batteries go from holding their charge and working well to no output and dead overnight ? I'm also hoping it's not one of the battery leads going into the back of the Sargent that has come loose. When the converter fitted my Sargent unit he left no slack in any of the cables making removal of the unit impossible without cutting wires. The unit is built into one of the cupboards. It would be a massive job to get it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 I notice that in April 2018 you enquired about a problem with the Sargent equipment fitted to your Citroen Relay-based panel-van conversion. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Citroen-Relay-and-Sargent-Ec160-Power-Unit/49215/ A GOOGLE-search on “sudden battery failure” https://tinyurl.com/y723tsry indicates that this can happen, but a 1-year-old leisure-battery suddenly losing all its charge would be odd. Nevertheless, your motorhome’s leisure-battery must be considerd the prime suspect for the current issue and - logically - is the first thing to check. (If you have been regularly maintaining the leisure-battery, presumably it cannot be that difficult to access it even though screws need to be undone to remove the panel that the battery is behind?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 Yes battery is easy to get too. Just didn't have time to look at it last night so will look today after work. By maintained I was referring to being charged via solar in the summer and charged via hook up in the dark months every weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 Provided that your motorhome’s leisure-battery is of the ‘no maintenance’ type (ie. its electrolyte-level cannot be topped up) then regularly charging it is all you can really do. But if the battery is ‘maintainable’ (ie. its electrolyte-level can be topped up if necessary) then it makes sense to check the level occasionally. For example, many motorhomes have a Banner “Energy Bull” as the leisure-battery, and not only is this Banner battery ‘maintainable’ but its electrolyte-level does need keeping a close eye on. Failure to do so may result in the electrolyte-level dropping so low that the battery dies as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 Trialsrider, you probably don't want to hear this but your Sargent Battery charger, isn't a battery charger. Despite the EC160 being a 'new' model, the charger is usually a 'Supercharge' 151 Power Supply that uses technology from the 1980's. It is based on designs that were targeted at Caravans permanently on Hook Up that didn't need the battery to be charged, just supply the power being used. It is a low power, fixed 13.8v unit that won't get a modern battery properly charged, so it's life might tend to be shorter than expected. Because these types of Power Supply are not the most powerful, they are easily overloaded in a Campervan/Motorhome and damaged. For example, discharging a modern battery down to 12.0v and asking it to charge the battery up, will throw it quite a challenge. Best to just shallow discharge the battery to about 25% DOD, no more than 12.6v? Have a read of our "wiring your own Camper" web page for more information on the EC160 and how it stacks against the opposition. In our view the EC160, which is being targeted at camper converters, isn't fit for purpose in a Camper van or motorhome, the pages show you why. We would suggest it is only suitable for small, lower spec Caravans that don't have significant power draw and are always on EHU when being used. See - http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/wiring-your-camper.php It might be worth talking to you camper van converter ? I think you have a poor battery that has overloaded the charger, suggest you check both carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 aandncaravan - 2018-12-27 10:11 PM Trialsrider, you probably don't want to hear this but your Sargent Battery charger, isn't a battery charger. Despite the EC160 being a 'new' model, the charger is usually a 'Supercharge' 151 Power Supply that uses technology from the 1980's. It is based on designs that were targeted at Caravans permanently on Hook Up that didn't need the battery to be charged, just supply the power being used. It is a low power, fixed 13.8v unit that won't get a modern battery properly charged, so it's life might tend to be shorter than expected. Because these types of Power Supply are not the most powerful, they are easily overloaded in a Campervan/Motorhome and damaged. For example, discharging a modern battery down to 12.0v and asking it to charge the battery up, will throw it quite a challenge. Best to just shallow discharge the battery to about 25% DOD, no more than 12.6v? Have a read of our "wiring your own Camper" web page for more information on the EC160 and how it stacks against the opposition. In our view the EC160, which is being targeted at camper converters, isn't fit for purpose in a Camper van or motorhome, the pages show you why. We would suggest it is only suitable for small, lower spec Caravans that don't have significant power draw and are always on EHU when being used. See - http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/wiring-your-camper.php It might be worth talking to you camper van converter ? I think you have a poor battery that has overloaded the charger, suggest you check both carefully. Thanks for your response. Sadly work commitments over Xmas haven't spared me any time to look in the van. But when I first noticed the issue I did notice the charger was still working as when I turned the charger function on it fired up the unit. Would my battery just drop off a cliff in terms of performance ? It was working perfectly well the night before and then nothing the next night. On the night it was working well it had the propex heater and all the lighting powered up for a couple of hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 I'm also wondering if the vsr has failed. My previous posts mention the issues I have had with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 aandncaravan - 2018-12-27 10:11 PM ...I think you have a poor battery that has overloaded the charger, suggest you check both carefully. When Trialsrider’s motorhome is connected to a 230V hook-up evidently “everything works”. I’m not familiar with Sargent kit, but this seems to suggest that the power-supply/charger is functional and it’s the leisure-battery that’s dead. On that basis the first thing to check is the state-of-charge/health of the leisure-battery and, if that test reveals that the battery is totally discharged or knackered, it can then be investigated why this has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-12-28 7:30 AM aandncaravan - 2018-12-27 10:11 PM ...I think you have a poor battery that has overloaded the charger, suggest you check both carefully. When Trialsrider’s motorhome is connected to a 230V hook-up evidently “everything works”. I’m not familiar with Sargent kit, but this seems to suggest that the power-supply/charger is functional and it’s the leisure-battery that’s dead. On that basis the first thing to check is the state-of-charge/health of the leisure-battery and, if that test reveals that the battery is totally discharged or knackered, it can then be investigated why this has happened. I agree. I will put a voltmeter across it today and let you know the outcome. I'm guessing that if the vsr has failed in between the split charge and the Sargent then once again the Sargent may not turn on. Is this right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-12-28 7:30 AM aandncaravan - 2018-12-27 10:11 PM ...I think you have a poor battery that has overloaded the charger, suggest you check both carefully. When Trialsrider’s motorhome is connected to a 230V hook-up evidently “everything works”. I’m not familiar with Sargent kit, but this seems to suggest that the power-supply/charger is functional and it’s the leisure-battery that’s dead. On that basis the first thing to check is the state-of-charge/health of the leisure-battery and, if that test reveals that the battery is totally discharged or knackered, it can then be investigated why this has happened. Derek, it doesn't say that in the post. only that when he runs from a charged Starter battery that all works. When switched to 'Caravan' it doesn't operate at all, or is there something I am missing? It will do that regardless of mains EHU being on. There is no mention of running the engine to test a VSR? The EC160 contains an internal Split charge relay driven by a D+ signal, so a VSR should not be installed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickt Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 My money's on dead leisure battery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 I am sorry but I due to severely restricted time, I have not been able to do more than scan this thread. Hence I may have missed any suggestion of a failed habitation battery fuse. If this has not been checked, it should be a high priority, as it would be far more likely for it to fail, than for a battery terminal to work loose. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 Alanb - 2018-12-28 9:48 AM I am sorry but I due to severely restricted time, I have not been able to do more than scan this thread. Hence I may have missed any suggestion of a failed habitation battery fuse. If this has not been checked, it should be a high priority, as it would be far more likely for it to fail, than for a battery terminal to work loose. Alan Will check that. Presumably this will be inline on the positive wire somewhere between battery and Sargent unit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 aandncaravan - 2018-12-28 8:41 AM Derek, it doesn't say that in the post. only that when he runs from a charged Starter battery that all work... Last sentence of original posting “...Everything works on hook up and when switched to engine battery mode on the Sargent...” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 Well what a suprise. Undid the panel exposing battery area. Everything looked intact however every time I touched one particular negative lead going to the terminal the power came on. Turns out it was simply a loose wire screwed on the terminal connector. Tightened it up and perfect. Oddly when I first went into van the Sargent was on despite being on leisure battery mode. That was after driving it which had probably caused the circuit to work due to movement. Tested battery and was 12.6v. Does this seem plausible to you lot ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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