Schaudt 121525

[alanedwin]

Hi All,

Our new Pilote looms large and I still have no definitive answer regarding whether it has a smart alternator and why the engine battery does not get charged from ehu or solar. Looking at AandN they suggest a Schaudt 121525 btob but the dealer thinks this might affect the warranty.

I know it’s a long shot but has anyone got a new fiat based motorhome with these problems and if so what have they done about it. I do not want to find my alarm system immobilised because my battery runs down despite being on EHU and solar.

Alan

[spirou]

If it's new it will have a smart alternator and most likely the schaudt unit already present as it's a popular/cheap choice for the converters

[alanedwin]

Ok,

I have just been informed that the ‘booster’ installed is a Redarc BOOSTER 12V/25A BCDC1225-001, which appears from the manual to be the perfect solution to the perceived problems. However the technical man at the dealer insists it does not charge the vehicle battery from EHU or solar.

 

[alanedwin]

Spirou,

 

 

Apparently the new ones have shreiber equipment.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Historically, the electrical system of Pilote motorhomes has been based around Schaudt or Scheiber equipment.

 

The Redarc unit is described here

 

https://www.splitcharge.co.uk/product/redarc-bcdc1225d-dc-dc-charger/

 

https://www.redarc.com.au/Content/Images/uploaded/Manuals/BCDC%20Dual%20Input%20Instruction%20Manual.pdf

 

This MHFun Pilote-related thread may also be of interest

 

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/does-solar-charge-both-batteries.236613/

 

[alanedwin]

Thanks Derek.

I am told by the dealer that it does not charge the vehicle battery despite being able to do so. I have asked them to explain and remedy the situation before I accept the van. I will let you know what happens.

[Derek Uzzell]

As far as I can make out (though I've not explored this too deeply), the Redarc unit is not designed to charge the motorhome's starter-battery and has no inherent capability to do this.

 

The MHFun thread I provided a link to mentions a Scheiber EMB

 

https://www.scheiber.com/vehicule-de-loisirs?lang=en

 

that seems to be one of those 'connect everything together' products that have become increasingly popular in recent years for new motorhomes (and that only rocket scientists will be able to trouble-shoot).

 

If you are being told by your Pilote dealer that - when the motorhome is not being driven - its STARTER-BATTERY will not be charged via a 230V mains hook-up or via solar panels, that would not surprise me unduly as the standard specification of motorhomes occasionally still lacks that feature.

 

When I've bought new cars and motorhomes in the past, I've always sought to get hold of the manufacturer's handbooks well before taking delivery. I don't know if you have the handbooks for your forthcoming motorhome, but these New Zealand links might help regarding the charging system.

 

https://www.deluxegroup.co.nz/user-manuals.html

 

https://www.deluxegroup.co.nz/uploads/6/2/4/9/62491403/mu_pilote_ccar_2021_web.pdf

[alanedwin]

Derek,

In the description of the electrical systems that manual states that the engine battery is given a top up charge as standard. I'm picking it up on Wednesday so I will get the multimeter out and see what's going on as the dealer obviously has no idea.

Alan

[Derek Uzzell]

The Pilote User Manual for their “Collection 2021” seems to describe an all-Scheiber system that the user controls via the “Xperience tablet”.

 

Regarding the 12V electrical supply, the Manual advises

 

12V supply

 

The motorhome’s 12V supply comes from two batteries: the engine battery and the leisure battery. The engine battery powers all electrical equipment in the vehicle section. The leisure battery powers the electrical appliances in the living quarters. It is placed in a chest or in a storage compartment (depending on the model). This battery is of the ‘semi-stationary’ type. Under no circumstances may it be replaced by a vehicle start-up battery. For any replacement, please contact your dealer. The two batteries are separated by a coupling device which charges using the alternator or recharges using the automatic battery charger (230 V supply). The charger for the power pack provides an additional charge to the engine battery to offset low consumption when running a car radio, for example. Under no circumstances will this operation completely recharge a depleted battery.

 

The last sentence suggests that, when the motorhome is on 230V hook-up, the onboard battery-charger provides a ‘trickle charge’ to the vehicle’s starter battery. This is what happens with my Rapido’s CBE-made electrical system, with the onboard battery-charger providing a low amperage/reduced voltage charge to the starter battery.

 

Comments on other forums (UK and French) imply that - for recent Pilote models - everything is handled via a Scheiber EMB (Energy Management Box). I was surprised that Pilote would install an Australian-made REDARC unit, but I came across references to it in this long (June 2019 to April 2021) French discussion

 

https://www.routard.com/forum_message/4760367/reprobleme_tablette_garmin_avec_gestion_xperience.htm

 

relating to electrical problems with Bavaria motorhomes fitted with the Xperience control panel. (Bavaria is part of the Pilote Group.)

 

(If the Pilote User Manual implies that the starter-battery gets a ’trickle charge’ but your Pilote dealer says that it does not, I suggest you believe the dealer!!)

 

 

[alanedwin]

Update on this.

Picked up the van today and in the owners manual from Pilote is an erratum slip which states that the booster does not now charge the vehicle battery because Fiat have advised against it. No reason why.

It does not have a start stop system or regenerative braking so can anyone suggest why this is?

Alan

[Derek Uzzell]

Without being able to read the Pilote manual supplied with your new motorhome, it’s difficult to decide why Fiat might have done this.

 

My understanding is that the Redarc BCDC1225D device is primarily intended for vehicles with a starter-battery and an auxiliary-battery when those vehicles (eg. 4 x 4s) will be used ‘off-grid’ - hence the device does not accept input from a 230V power-supply.

 

Redarc do market a ‘Battery Management System’ (BMS) that - besides having the capability of charging the auxiliary-battery from the vehicle’s alternator and/or solar panels - adds charging from a 230V power source

 

 

 

and this system would be much more suitable for a motorhome.

 

I don’t know what a "Redarc BOOSTER 12V/25A BCDC1225-001” is capable of doing. If it did not have a 230V input capability, there would be a need for another onboard battery-charger dedicated to charging the auxiliary (leisure) battery. If it has the BMS capability, when the motorhome is on 230V hook-up (or on solar) as well as charging the auxiliary battery there might be the option to ’trickle charge’ the starter-battery (as happens with my Rapido’s CBE-made battery charging system) but Fiat has concluded that - for the very latest Ducatos - this feature should be disabled.

 

If your dealer cannot explain what’s behind the erratum slip in the Pilote manual, you could try contacting the Pilote factory direct and ask for the background to Fiat’s advice. At least you now know that the information your dealer previously gave you is correct.

 

Now you've got the motorhome, it would be worth you checking the reference number on the Redarc device fitted to it and also see what the Redarc documentation for that device says (assuming that documentation has been provided with the motorhome).