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Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
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userZafira
Posted: 29 July 2020 8:23 AM
Subject: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 
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Hello

I'd very much welcome comment from the mechanically minded amongst you on the following, e.g. just unfortunate or incompetent!

2 year old Relay with 2 litre Blue HDI engine went for major service this week at Citroen dealer where it had a service a year ago.
10 miles into return journey home immediately after the service there was total loss of power to the engine in the nearside lane of the motorway - fotunately no HGV or other vehicles right on my tail nor thankfully was it on a stretch of smart motorway - so I was able to coast onto hard shoulder.

Phoned servicing dealer & explained what had happened and suggested that recovery should be at their expense rather than mine. Recovered that afternoon to servicing dealer where "technician" told me that fuel pipe had become disconnected (hence continued smell of diesel from around front of vehicle a few days on), that the fuel pipe at the engine end is only secured with a plastic, toothed clip, that its position and this "weak" fitting means it is vulnerable to being knocked or similar whilst the engine is being serviced. He explained that I was fortuate that I was only 10 miles into my return journey, that someone else (he said that mine was the 4th or 5th one they'd had) had travelled 77 miles post service before the same issue occurred. The garage effected a temporary repair by way of apparently taking a part from a new, unregistered vehicle and secured the pipe with several cable ties. The garage are ordering a new (?metal) part which will require a repeat visit to the Citroen dealership, a return journey of 80 miles. The incident meant I lost quarter of a tank of fuel. My cursory look under both the bonnet and under the engine doesn't reveal sight of the cable ties/repair so I'm guessing the implicated area is buried out of sight somewhere............

So.......was I just unfortunate or is this something I should be jumping up and down about to both the dealership and Citroen (and anybody else?)?!

Cheers for reading
usercolin
Posted: 29 July 2020 8:56 AM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 


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After 4 or 5 they need to look at their training.
userAlanb
Posted: 29 July 2020 10:14 AM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 
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I appreciate that the vehicle is a Citroen, but from the description given, and the fact that it is a Sevel manufactured vehicle, the fuel filter connections are probably identical.

Zafira will not find the fuel filter under the engine

There is an interesting, well illustrated thread on the Fiat Forum relating to UFI fuel filter replacement, which can be viewed here.

To underatand the problem look at the photos of the filter connections labelled "SECURED" and "UNSECURED". Spot the difference!

Alan
userSteve928
Posted: 29 July 2020 12:49 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 


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Alanb - 2020-07-29 10:14 AM

I appreciate that the vehicle is a Citroen, but from the description given, and the fact that it is a Sevel manufactured vehicle, the fuel filter connections are probably identical.

Zafira will not find the fuel filter under the engine

There is an interesting, well illustrated thread on the Fiat Forum relating to UFI fuel filter replacement, which can be viewed here.

To underatand the problem look at the photos of the filter connections labelled "SECURED" and "UNSECURED". Spot the difference!

Alan


It's a different (metal, disposable) filter on the Euro6 BlueHDi PSA chassis, the plastic one in the Fiat forum link lasted to the end of Euro5 production (one Euro step further than it did on the Ducato).
Plus, as the Citroen garage is saying the problem is at the engine end, I don't think it involves the filter itself anyway.

Edited by Steve928 2020-07-29 12:51 PM
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 29 July 2020 2:17 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 


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I THINK the fuel-filter unit used for Peugot Boxers/Citroen Relays with the 2.0litre BlueHDi powerplants is as fitted to Ducato Euro 6 motors and is as shown on the image below.

It might be possible for a connector on the filter unit to be damaged/disconnected accidentally during a service (and this unit has a replacable internal filter element rather than being disposable) but (as Steve touches on) for useful advice more detail would be required about the implications of the statement

“...the fuel pipe at the engine end is only secured with a plastic, toothed clip, that its position and this "weak" fitting means it is vulnerable to being knocked or similar whilst the engine is being serviced.”

and whether the filter unit was involved or not.





(filter.jpg)



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Attachments filter.jpg (23KB - 8 downloads)
userAlanb
Posted: 29 July 2020 4:09 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 
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Steve928 - 2020-07-29 12:49 PM

Alanb - 2020-07-29 10:14 AM

I appreciate that the vehicle is a Citroen, but from the description given, and the fact that it is a Sevel manufactured vehicle, the fuel filter connections are probably identical.

Zafira will not find the fuel filter under the engine

There is an interesting, well illustrated thread on the Fiat Forum relating to UFI fuel filter replacement, which can be viewed here.

To underatand the problem look at the photos of the filter connections labelled "SECURED" and "UNSECURED". Spot the difference!

Alan


It's a different (metal, disposable) filter on the Euro6 BlueHDi PSA chassis, the plastic one in the Fiat forum link lasted to the end of Euro5 production (one Euro step further than it did on the Ducato).
Plus, as the Citroen garage is saying the problem is at the engine end, I don't think it involves the filter itself anyway.


Steve,

Thanks for updating me. I grew up with CAV "bowl-less" filters with the pipe work secured by metal compression fittings. These fixings and the replacable canister which was secured by a central 1/4"? high tensile bolt, were never a problem in my recollection.

Alan
userRobinhood
Posted: 29 July 2020 5:40 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 


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The filter in question, if it is indeed the same as the Euro6 Ducato (and as shown in Derek's picture) does indeed have a connection secured by a yellow "toothed clip".

The video here (though if you watch it all and have any mechanical sympathy, it may make you weep), though German (silent German ) illustrates the basic process for renewing the filter, and the clip in question comes into shot at around 1:30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vikwmFk70Q

I'm just summoning up courage to do mine (but certainly not until after our next outing) : all other service items bar brake fluid renewal having just been done.

(The brake fluid renewal is awaiting a bit more research. Pressure bleeding (Eezibleed or the like) should be possible, but MultiECUscan appears to have a process (x2) on vehicles with ESP (not just ABS) which uses the ESP pump to individually bleed the two diagonal circuits, and another for the ABS unit. I'm intrigued, and if it works, it will be far more convenient than pressure bleeding. The fluid has been tested at 0% moisture content anyway, but if Multiecuscan can drive the overall process, then it shouldn't be to onerous a task and will get done regardless - though the rear-wheel(s) will have to come off to get at the bleed nipples; fronts are readily accessible).,
userDeneb
Posted: 29 July 2020 6:01 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 
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Robinhood - 2020-07-29 5:40 PM

(The brake fluid renewal is awaiting a bit more research. Pressure bleeding (Eezibleed or the like) should be possible, but MultiECUscan appears to have a process (x2) on vehicles with ESP (not just ABS) which uses the ESP pump to individually bleed the two diagonal circuits, and another for the ABS unit. I'm intrigued, and if it works, it will be far more convenient than pressure bleeding. The fluid has been tested at 0% moisture content anyway, but if Multiecuscan can drive the overall process, then it shouldn't be to onerous a task and will get done regardless - though the rear-wheel(s) will have to come off to get at the bleed nipples; fronts are readily accessible).,


From what I've read elsewhere (as I haven't personally tried it) the functions in MES only actuate the ABS valves for a few seconds at a time, and are insufficient to carry out a proper ABS pump pressure bleed.

I do have a diagnostic device which has programs for ABS bleeding on various vehicles, and the routines often run for several minutes, although with plenty of pauses to protect the valves from overheating.

However, you shouldn't need to carry out an ABS bleeding routine unless you have had to replace the ABS pump or have disconnected part of the hydraulic system in such a way that air has entered the pump (or you've ignored the system for so long that the fluid is absolutely filthy). I replace the brake fluid on our vehicles at regular service intervals using a Sealey (Alba) pressure bleeder simply be pressurising the fluid reservoir and allowing new fluid to run through the system by opening the wheel brake valves in turn until clean fluid has been pushed through, and did the Ducato last year with no problems (other than Fiat having fitted a defective bleed valve screw to one caliper, but that's another story).

If you really want to ensure that new fluid is fed through the pump without having access to ABS bleeding equipment, then you can always find a muddy field or other loose/slippery surface somewhere and carry out repeated braking with enough force to activate the ABS/ESP system - or just drive around on sheet ice somewhere such as the Vosges mountains in winter, which I have to say impressed me with how responsively the current generation of ESP systems actually work

Edited by Deneb 2020-07-29 6:03 PM
userRobinhood
Posted: 29 July 2020 6:42 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 


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There is certainly the ability to "test" the functioning of the ABS valves (every one individually, and I take these to be "momentary") under "actuators", but under the "adjustments" (at least for the level of Bosch ABS 9/ESP on my van), there are three "maintenance" processes which are specifically flagged for bleeding diagonal circuits 1 and 2 (separately, and only on versions with ESP, as it uses the ESP functionality), and for completely refreshing of the ABS unit contents (though patently, whatever comes out will remain in circuit unless multiple bleeds are done).

The descriptions lead me to believe that these are effectively a full programme in each case, as opposed to the functionality actuation test. (though, as I say, a bit more research is in order )

1 .This procedure will flush the hydraulic lines of the ABS module. Perform the procedure after replacing the ABS unit, or when changing the brake fluid. Keep the brake pedal pressed during the entire procedure. The pedal will first sink to floor and then raise back to top.
Basically the procedure will open all drain valves and fill both accumulators with brake fluid from the master cylinder, then it will use the hydraulic pump to return all fluid back to master cylinder. This way the fluid will be cycled through all internal ABS hydraulic lines.
Before executing this procedure make sure that there is enough brake fluid in the reservoir and also loosen its cap.

2. (2 separate processes, 1 for each diagonal) This procedure helps to bleed/flush the hydraulic brake lines through the bleeder on each wheel. It uses the ESP pump and valves to perform this operation and does not work on basic ABS systems. The brake systems use two separate hydraulic circuits and each circuit controls two diagonal wheels (FL-RR and FR-RL).
Before executing this procedure make sure that there is enough brake fluid in the reservoir and also loosen its cap.
Perform the operation in following order:
1. Loosen the bleeder on the front wheel (FL or FR depending on selected circuit)
2. Execute the procedure
3. Tighten the bleeder
You have to perform this a few times in order to flush all fluid from the line.
4. Repeat the above steps for the rear diagonal wheel.
WARNING: Do not execute the procedure without opening the bleeder!
userDeneb
Posted: 29 July 2020 7:42 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 
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I know, and as I say I haven't tried it but I did read reports on the Fiat Forum that the procedures didn't run for nearly long enough to be effective. There is also the issue that running the procedure without having a wheel valve open could be damaging to the system. The explanation in MES which you quoted does make some reference to that and helpfully explains that there are separate procedures to operate the split line circuits independently. Unless it has been changed in the latest versions of MES though, there is no indication as to which of the two procedures acts on which circuit. So, a 50/50 chance of getting it right (or wrong) unless you open a bleed screw on both circuits and allow fluid to escape from the "wrong one", when you may then end up with air in the other circuit of the valve block.

If it does go wrong, ABS units aren't cheap!

The professional systems I've seen run through the entire process automatically, whilst instructing the user which bleed valve to open and only continuing after confirmation. The whole process often runs for several minutes, with the ABS valves being activated in repeated short bursts between pauses designed to protect the system from damage due to continuously operating the valves for too long, whilst ensuring that the necessary volume of fluid is pumped through each circuit.

I'd rather have reassurance that the MES routines work correctly before committing to using them, which unfortunately so far I haven't seen. But you're welcome to have a go and report back
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 30 July 2020 7:25 AM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 


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Robinhood - 2020-07-29 5:40 PM

The filter in question, if it is indeed the same as the Euro6 Ducato (and as shown in Derek's picture) does indeed have a connection secured by a yellow "toothed clip".

The video here (though if you watch it all and have any mechanical sympathy, it may make you weep), though German (silent German ) illustrates the basic process for renewing the filter, and the clip in question comes into shot at around 1:30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vikwmFk70Q



These Fiat Forum (Ducato-related) links may be of interest

https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/456235-euro-6-fuel-filter.html

https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/463716-2-3-euro-6-diesel-fuel-filter-change.html

and I’ve copied below a couple of filter-unit photos showing the yellow clip.

The German YouTube video suggests that, if the fuel-line has been properly connected to the filter unit, manipulating the yellow clip to allow the fuel line to be disconnected may involve some force and thus it’s unlikely for the clip to be displaced accidentally. But if the fuel-line connector or the clip has not been fully engaged, or the design/manufacture of the clip or connector is problematical, it’s not too difficult to imagine the fuel-line becoming detached.



(clip.jpg)



(clip2.jpg)



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Attachments clip.jpg (57KB - 8 downloads)
Attachments clip2.jpg (108KB - 8 downloads)
userZafira
Posted: 30 July 2020 9:16 AM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 
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Morning All

Many thanks for taking time to respond to my post and espcially to Derek for close-up photos of the potential offending part.

I'll be making contact with the garage today as they haven't yet got back to me to book the van in for fitting of the replacement part. When I do return I intend to ask someone to provide a hecky of a lot more detail about exactly what part failed and will be clutching Derek's photos in case they help to pinpoint what the issue was/what has been replaced. As things stand I'm not inclined to expect to pay for this work (having forked out a not inconsiderable sum for a major service 20 mins or so before the incident) but would be keen to hear if forumites thing I'm being an unreasonable woman............

Then some rhetorical questions to the garage about "trends", e.g. 4th or 5th time this happend so is the same "technician" involved, what checks are performed before vehicle returned to owner to establish that this issue hasn't occurred and left a metaphorical ticking time bomb especially where motorway travel is concerned. I very much doubt I'll get answers to these but it may give them cause to think...........

Finally I need to make a decision about where I take my servicing custom next time........
Ironically, as is typical of main delear serving I was handed a glowing health check report on the van as I stumped up for the servicing

Edited by Zafira 2020-07-30 9:21 AM
userRobinhood
Posted: 30 July 2020 10:21 AM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 


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Derek Uzzell - 2020-07-30 7:25 AM

The German YouTube video suggests that, if the fuel-line has been properly connected to the filter unit, manipulating the yellow clip to allow the fuel line to be disconnected may involve some force and thus it’s unlikely for the clip to be displaced accidentally. But if the fuel-line connector or the clip has not been fully engaged, or the design/manufacture of the clip or connector is problematical, it’s not too difficult to imagine the fuel-line becoming detached.


TBH, Derek, I think "Kurt" was being a little less than "Vorsprung Durch Technik"

His technique, and the lack of using gloves when dealing with diesel didn't impress me.

I'll be able to confirm once I've done the change, but the (yellow) clip itself on mine slides ever so easily (and appears to be a secondary retaining mechanism, which when slid also reveals the primary one). I think the "detents" it fully reveals when slid are the main retention/sealing mechanism, and again, don't look or feel like they have to be "butchered" by a screwdriver.

The yellow clip does, however, feel flimsy, and the way it works might conceal whether the pipe had been fully relocated or not on replacement. (and might get broken if not properly positioned when replacing the connection)

(I must admit that the filter pipe on mine has, as the second picture you've posted, the 90 degree bend in it, which would/will I think make both access and manipulation easier than the straight up one in the first picture (and the video)).
userRobinhood
Posted: 30 July 2020 12:36 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 


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...being intrigued (and preparing for imminent filter replacement), I just went and detached mine.

Unless the upright connection rather than the right-angle makes a huge difference (I think it may make some, if only in accessibility), I can't see what the struggle was. I was expecting it to be somewhat easier than the video, but it was much easier, both off an on (unless I haven't got it properly back on, of course ).

Slide the yellow collar, press the revealed detents either side, pull the pipe off. Reverse to re-attach.

Edited by Robinhood 2020-07-30 12:36 PM
userSteve928
Posted: 30 July 2020 12:55 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 


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The clips sounds very similar to the quick release clips found on the radiator hoses (but with a safety collar covering the detents); squeeze hard on the 2 detents and it expands the ring inside the fitting so allowing the ring to disengage from and slide over the ridge on the male part.



(Capture.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments Capture.JPG (18KB - 7 downloads)
userDeneb
Posted: 30 July 2020 12:58 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 
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Robinhood - 2020-07-30 12:36 PM

Unless the upright connection rather than the right-angle makes a huge difference (I think it may make some, if only in accessibility), I can't see what the struggle was. I was expecting it to be somewhat easier than the video, but it was much easier, both off an on (unless I haven't got it properly back on, of course ).



Unfortunately in my experience it is quite often the case with main dealers, as opposed to good independent garages, that the routine servicing jobs are placed in the hands of barely qualified grease monkeys who have little clue as to what they are doing or how to follow the technical documents. I've never understood why people think that a main dealer service history is of value, although unfortunately the manufacturers usually put great emphasis on it when it comes to warranty and goodwill claims. You'll never get the dealer to admit that though!
userDeneb
Posted: 30 July 2020 1:07 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 
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Steve928 - 2020-07-30 12:55 PM

The clips sounds very similar to the quick release clips found on the radiator hoses (but with a safety collar covering the detents); squeeze hard on the 2 detents and it expands the ring inside the fitting so allowing the ring to disengage from and slide over the ridge on the male part.


There are several versions of quick-connect clips used on the fuel lines of Sevel vans. From what I can see, the instructions for nearly all of them include the phrase "special tools are not required for removal".
userRobinhood
Posted: 30 July 2020 1:32 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 


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Deneb - 2020-07-30 12:58 PM

Unfortunately in my experience it is quite often the case with main dealers, as opposed to good independent garages, that the routine servicing jobs are placed in the hands of barely qualified grease monkeys who have little clue as to what they are doing or how to follow the technical documents.


It is fairly easy to criticise, so I tend to be careful about doing so, but in the case of Fiat Professional I am singularly unimpressed with either of the two local dealers I have used.

The customer service aspects are singularly lacking (a couple of short recall jobs booked and acknowledged on an "as you wait" basis completely unprepared for), and little effort to stick to booked times. In both cases, senior personnel (not the grease monkey) haven't impressed with their knowledge of requirements (to the extent, for example, that I had to show the main, trained, Fiat technician how to reset two service indicators after an oil and interval service - they'd only done one).

All at premium labour rates.

Which is why I've equipped myself to do all my own regular servicing.

The 'van before last was Transit-based. The local Ford dealer is a Transit "expert". The customer service aspects were good, with a dedicated and separate reception area to cars. They always seemed to know what they were doing, and the labour rate was somewhat noticeably less than Fiat dealers, and also less than the car side at the same dealer. It wasn't worthwhile/as attractive doing my own work on that.
userDeneb
Posted: 30 July 2020 2:15 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 
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Robinhood - 2020-07-30 1:32 PM

It is fairly easy to criticise, so I tend to be careful about doing so, but in the case of Fiat Professional I am singularly unimpressed with either of the two local dealers I have used.



Purely from experience of the parts department at my nearest Fiat Pro dealer, I wouldn't let my van anywhere near them.

I did however have an in-warranty "light" service at a different dealer after a very good phone experience when enquiring with them, and couldn't fault them. Probably one of the best dealer experiences I have had in many years, and I say that with the benefit of knowing exactly what they were doing as when they connected the vehicle to their battery support charger my dashcam started recording

Two local Volvo dealers are both absolutely appalling. Have you ever tried doing a service one-handed whilst eating throughout? The technician who did my first annual service sort of managed it, if you can excuse the oil that went everywhere apart from in the engine because he couldn't see what he was doing whilst tipping his head back to empty his crisp packet. Then there was the bottle of washer fluid that he couldn't pour into my car because I'd topped up the reservoir before I took it in, so he tipped half of it into the waste oil container and left the half-empty bottle in the passenger footwell so they could charge me for it, or so they thought.

Numerous experiences of things being dismantled and fastenings mislaid and not replaced on reassembly over the years, including two wheel nut caps on my Volvo. The dealer denied losing them and insisted that they must have already been missing when I bought the car in, because they didn't have to remove the wheels for that particular service. Only after I asked the service manager why I'd been asked to hand the locknut key to the receptionist with the car key when I arrived, and to explain how they'd managed to measure the depth of material on every single brake pad to within a hundredth of a millimetre according to the service sheet, without removing the wheels, did two new ones suddenly appear out of stores.

2nd year service they wanted to replace the spark plugs until I pointed out that the service schedule stated they should only be replaced according to mileage, not time, and if they insisted that was fine but I wouldn't be paying for them.

Then there's the Ford dealer who fitted a new carburettor to my Capri and secured it to the manifold with one nut, presumably having lost the other three. The "highly trained technician" (according to the service sheet and invoice) who managed to cross thread the sump plug on a new Mondeo. I could go on (and on, and on). I know I have high standards but I believe if a job is going to be done it should be done properly and at the very least according to the manufacturer's specifications.

That's why I do everything that I can myself as well. If I need a special tool for the job and it's going to cost me less than the dealer charge with labour, I buy the tool and consider it a good investment.

I managed to pick up several dealer tools for my Volvo at a knock down price last year from a fire sale at a main dealer that had gone into administration. Very happy with that

The worrying thing is that most vehicle owners who aren't mechanically minded have no idea whether the work they've paid a fortune for has been done properly or not, or sometimes even if it was required.
userRobinhood
Posted: 31 July 2020 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 


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Well, at the risk of being boring, I can confirm that the job is somewhat easier than the German video would lead you to believe. Slightly messy and fiddly, but not difficult. For anyone who hasn't done it yet but might try:

Note : LH/RH here refer to the logical position when facing the engine bay, and nitrile gloves are recommended throughout..

The two fuel pipes (in and out) have the same type of connection, albeit with a different colour "collar". They are easy to remove by sliding the locking collar fully over to reveal "detents". Squeeze the detents by hand (use fingers to one on each side) together and pull the pipe off.

The electrical connection removes by clicking up a very small detent in the upper RH part of the plug, allowing the greyish plug body to be slid in that direction (to the right). This movement allows the connections to rise and the plug can be easily removed.

Both these actions are relatively easy, and toolless. (albeit in the remote depths of the engine compartment.)

The fuel connections will drip a small amount of residual fuel on removal, so a cloth or piece of paper towel underneath the filter helps keep the engine bay clean. I tend to keep such well away from the open pipes to avoid "contamination".

Unclip the two pipe retaining clips on the LH bracket arm, and ease the two pipes out (this makes final removal of the filter easier).

The only two bolts that need removing are those two (10mm) obviously holding the filter body in the bracket (the LH of which also holds the LH bracket arm as above).

The filter body then needs to be manoeuvred out carefully, but space isn't too restrictive (the bracket arm should be put to one side for re-installation).

Empty as much fuel as possible, then open the filter body (using a vice and T26 torx). As I haven't got the torque settings for closing, and the bolts and casing were pen "marked" I carefully stored the bolts in known order from a known starting position, to be able to re-check the marks on re-assembly. Remove the body top (which will bring the filter element with it) and empty the remainder of the fuel. As this process will be messy, best to do it over a container.

I avoid using anything to wipe anywhere near the internals of the filter or filter body, to avoid contamination (most cloths, kitchen towel, etc. will leave fibres behind in anything coated with diesel). Don't be tempted to re-use the "waste" diesel.

The filter element is a tightish fit in the top, so needs a pull to remove. The new one simply replaces it, and will fit only in one position (the breather tube on the top makes the orientation obvious). Push well into place, replace the cap and element to the main body, and replace and tighten the bolts. (being an aluminium body, the bolts shouldn't be overtightened, which is where the markings help). Doing them until they felt "just right" was confirmed by the marks.

Then it is simply a reverse process to re-install. I hung the filter body on the RH bolt, then added the bracket arm and LH bolt, then replaced the two pipes in the bracket arm clips. Tighten both bolts. Then, rear fuel pipe connection first. Ensure the collar is still open, position the pipe on the filter, hold the detents inwards and push on. A positive fit should be felt as it clicks into place, but to be sure, without closing the collar attempt to remove the pipe without pressing the detents. If all is well, slide the collar to the locked position. Next, the electrical connection. Check the little detent is still up and the grey retainer is still slid to the right; position the plug on the filter connections and slide the grey retainer carefully to the right. LEFT, which should firmly connect the plug. Once fully seated, click down the little detent. Then, the front fuel pipe connection much like the rear one.

Once happy with the above, turn the ignition on (without starting the engine) for 10 seconds or so, then off and wait for 10 seconds. Repeat 2 or 3 times, then check the filter area for leaks. If all OK, start the engine, run for a minute or so, then check for leaks again. (I was advised the filter was self-priming, and so it seems).

All that is left then is to clean up tools and containers, and find somewhere to legally dispose of a coffee jar's-worth of diesel. (My local household waste site won't take it, but the local garage has been useful in the past - if not, I'll just wait and burn it when I have a fire that will take it past its flash-point).

That may be of no use to anyone, but frankly, it should be more useful than the German video for anyone choosing to change a "heated fuel filter" as on the Euro6 'vans.
usercolin
Posted: 31 July 2020 2:11 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 


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Deneb - 2020-07-30 2:15 PM

Robinhood - 2020-07-30 1:32 PM

It is fairly easy to criticise, so I tend to be careful about doing so, but in the case of Fiat Professional I am singularly unimpressed with either of the two local dealers I have used.



Purely from experience of the parts department at my nearest Fiat Pro dealer, I wouldn't let my van anywhere near them.

I did however have an in-warranty "light" service at a different dealer after a very good phone experience when enquiring with them, and couldn't fault them. Probably one of the best dealer experiences I have had in many years, and I say that with the benefit of knowing exactly what they were doing as when they connected the vehicle to their battery support charger my dashcam started recording


I have had dealings with 4 Fiat (un)Professional workshops, one of these with the help of Nick managed to fix my van, but I believe they are no longer a Fiat workshop, the other 3 have managed to bungle repairs, services and spares ordering. I now either do the job myself, or take it to my local garage, the owner of which I've known for years.
userRobinhood
Posted: 31 July 2020 2:22 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 


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Location: Sherwood Forest


I've re-read and spotted the obvious mistake

In refitting the electrical connection, I wrote:

Check the little detent is still up and the grey retainer is still slid to the right; position the plug on the filter connections and slide the grey retainer carefully to the right,

That should be:

Check the little detent is still up and the grey retainer is still slid to the right; position the plug on the filter connections and slide the grey retainer carefully to the left,

(Edit - Corrected - Keithl)
userZafira
Posted: 31 July 2020 4:14 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 
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An update...............

Vehicle booked in for 10 days time, at no cost to me for fitting of part:-

1614202780

Apparently its the pipe to the fuel filter.................. a quick internet search hasn't thrown up an image of said pipe
userRobinhood
Posted: 31 July 2020 4:56 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 


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Location: Sherwood Forest


...well, I suspect we zeroed in on the correct part.

(I can find Fiat part numbers, but not Citroen).

The suspicion is that they've broken the (equivalent of the) yellow retaining clip (or stripped the associated internal locating lugs) as in Derek's second picture above. (though, as there is a similar arrangement for the pipe behind the electrical plug, but with a blue retaining clip, then it could be that one).

The Fiat parts catalogue doesn't show the connectors as a separate part - so full pipe required to fix.

Frankly, you'd have to be pretty ham-fisted to do that once, let alone four or five times (even the German in the video seems to have avoided it, despite using some rather brutal screwdriver technique).
userZafira
Posted: 31 July 2020 8:28 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 
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Having looked at some youtube videos on fuel filters on Citroen/PSA vans I've just taken another look under the bonnet of the Relay and have attached a photo of the fuel filter complete with its "security jacket" of a thick-ish cable tie...............

I'm going to be phoning the garage again to get clarification on exactly what part has been ordered because the cable tie appears to be holding the metal casing of the fuel filter together (to my inexperienced eyes) and indeed the mechanic at the time of the incident said it was a metal part that was on order whereas the garage told me this afternoon that Citroen part 1614202780 was the pipe to the fuel filter



(Relay filter (2)_Easy-Resize.com.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Relay filter (2)_Easy-Resize.com.jpg (97KB - 8 downloads)
userRobinhood
Posted: 31 July 2020 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 


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That looks to me like they're securing the fuel pipe onto the metal filter feed by cable tying it round the lower bracket..

The yellow locking collar appears to be complete (at least from this side), from which I would surmise that it is the internal grip/lock mechanism of the pipe that has been damaged/failed. (The locking collar is, I think, a belts and braces affair, the main part of the fitting being the click-fit inside the connector, which is released by pressing on the green parts (either side)).

As I said above, the connection, though patently separate from the pipe, isn't (at least for Fiats) available separately. I can believe that the (correct) fuel pipe is the appropriate solution.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 1 August 2020 8:08 AM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 


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The Part Number (1614202780) is evidently common to Citroen and Peugeot.

Its description in one advert is as follows

PRODUCTS DESCRIPTION

parts group RF1 weight 0.56 kg

Fuel supply pipe length 69, width 31, height 12 cm


That sounds like the complete fuel-feed pipe assembly that connects to the filter unit - not just a small component - particularly as the part’s asking price is around £150.
userZafira
Posted: 11 August 2020 2:20 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 
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An update/post script:

Thanks to all who replied/read my post and commented upon it.

I took the vehicle back to the Citroen dealer today and asked to speak to the company MD.

As Derek set out the replacement part was in fact a whole assembly of x2 parallel lengths of pipework to run from tank to fuel filter, getting on for 1 .5m-2m in length. I kept drilling down for more details of exactly what had happened/which part was faulty etc.

It was a time-served (30years) mechanic who had serviced the vehicle, and in fact the bit that had broken was one of the plastic, external, retaining clips to the right of/behind the yellow plastic clip which can be seen in the photo I posted.

So the garage have held their hands up & said it was the mechanics fault (tight working space, didn't realise the clip was broken, etc etc).

The MD had no idea that they'd had 4 or 5 other incidents and wasn't able to tell me if the same mechanic was involved in those.......

The tab for the work (and to fill up my diesel tank) has been picked up by the garage rather than Citroen.

Edited by Zafira 2020-08-11 2:33 PM
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 11 August 2020 2:47 PM
Subject: RE: Servicing of 2litre Blue HDI Citroen engine resulting in disconnection of fuel line
 


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Well done.

Thanks for the update.
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