Ian125 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 I took my April 2015 Elddis Accordo (Peugeot Boxer) to my local Peugeot main dealer for a service earlier this week. The same dealer serviced it in April 2017 (service interval 2 years) & changed the brake fluid at that time. Whilst attempting to change the brake fluid this time they sheared the o/s/f brake bleed nipple off. They are telling me that both front calipers should be replaced at a cost of £1235. At the time that I collected the vehicle I was not told that the nipple had been broken-that information was included with the invoice. My question is-who should pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laika.brian Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Ian, Firstly any decent garage should be able to remove a bleed nipple without breaking it, apply heat to the nipple and let it cool it will nearly be loose. it should still be possible to remove the broken one a little more tricky but possible . Second the dealer assumed responsibility when they agreed to the work so are responsible in my mind,probably overtightened it on the first occasion! This is a case of the customer been asked to pay for the dealerships lack of proper training and experience, Make them put it right and learn a good lesson in the process. Actually surprised they came clean in the first place ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Welcome to the sheared Brembo brake nipple club. Brembo's brake nipples could almost have been designed to shear as they have a narrow waist between the threaded part and the spanner flats - see attached picture. My own OSF sheared the first time I tried to loosen it. I take some of the blame as I had failed to renew the brake fluid at the 2 year guideline so the nipple hadn't been touched for nearly 3 years. I tried all the usual tricks to extract the broken part without success. Finally I had the caliper on the bench, drilled a central hole into the nipple into which I TIG-welded a short length of Allen key, but not even that would free it as the key just twisted into a helical. One scrap caliper sadly. A pair of pattern calipers on Ebay is around £250 I recall but the Brembo ones are significantly more; I think that my Peuegot dealer quoted over £450 per caliper, so in line with the figure that you have been given. I sourced a pair of Brembos from Nick at Coastal Motorhomes (he has an Ebay shop) and I think they were under £300 in total. It's an easy job if you're a DIYer. Oh and I discarded Brembo's dreadful bleed nipples and replaced them with non-waisted ones. Caliper part nos. are a minefield as there are 6 variations depending on diameter and the 3 possible disc thicknesses but I can give you some guidance with that should you want to go down this route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddies104 Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Hi Just for reference, if anyone has a similar problem... Get a 8” file, or smaller if needed, remove the haft (wooden handle) and place the sharp end of the file into the hole, gently tap the file firmly into the hole of the nipple until solid. Get a pair of grips on the file and turn.. Should come out. Used this method many times in my engineering background. Even for removing broken bolts, drill a hole down the centre and follow method above. Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Hi, I am sure you can still buy bolt extractors or easi--outs as we used to call them. With a brake bleed nipple the hole is already there so no need to even drill it. good luck derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Ian125 - 2019-04-12 9:12 PM I took my April 2015 Elddis Accordo (Peugeot Boxer) to my local Peugeot main dealer for a service earlier this week. The same dealer serviced it in April 2017 (service interval 2 years) & changed the brake fluid at that time. Whilst attempting to change the brake fluid this time they sheared the o/s/f brake bleed nipple off. They are telling me that both front calipers should be replaced at a cost of £1235. At the time that I collected the vehicle I was not told that the nipple had been broken-that information was included with the invoice. My question is-who should pay? Question arises: did they shear the bleed nipple while tightening it after refilling and bleeding, or while loosening it and, if the latter, have they deducted the brake fluid and labour charge from your bill? In other words, have the failed to replace the brake fluid as required by Peugeot's service schedule? If they have, they should definitely have advised you of that at the time you paid. Questions, questions! :-) Even if the nipple is prone to breakage the workshop in a main dealer should be aware of the problem, and (as they seem to have been the last people to re-tighten it) should have been able to remove it without problem. I suggest you take this up through Peugeot's technical/customer services department. The van is only 4 years old, and it is IMO unacceptable to be hit for replacing two callipers in order to rectify a problem that they seem, on the evidence, to have caused by being ham fisted - either in re-tightening or in loosening the bleed nipple. After all, Peugeot stipulate that the brake fluid be replaced two yearly, so Peugeot should supply/install bleed nipples suitable for that purpose, or should recommend that the nipples are replaced rather than being re-used. An "easy out" is simply a tapered left handed thread extractor that any competent workshop should have at its disposal - even Halfords sell them! See here: http://tinyurl.com/y262vfqv As the extractor is screwed in the tapered thread tightens into the piece to be removed and, as it is a left handed thread, it exerts increasing force to unscrew the item in question. Replacing both callipers in order to deal with a sheared bleed nipple stuck in one calliper is ridiculous, IMO, and smacks of a time driven workshop that couldn't be bothered to remedy its own error but then asks its customer to bear the cost of the most expensive imaginable remedy. Is there another suitable Peugeot workshop to whom you could take the van for a second opinion, and to check the condition of the brake fluid? It should be possible to tell if it is new, or two years old, from its moisture content. This game of charging a fixed price for a service, and then adding a number of unmentioned supplementary items to the back of the invoice for future attention, seems to have grown over the past couple of years - in lieu of 'phoning the customer for instruction on items they find as they proceed. It is good for the workshop as a job that could be remedied economically while they have the vehicle, has to be re-scheduled at the full cost as a one-off task, inevitably costing the customer more and also requiring a return trip, and possibly courtesy car, to remedy. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian125 Posted April 13, 2019 Author Share Posted April 13, 2019 Thank you very much for your valuable comments. I should have added a couple of points to my original post. The dealer did phone me whilst they were servicing the vehicle & told me that the bleed nipples were seized. They said that it might be possible to free them by applying heat & that the extra cost would be £150. I declined. I did not instruct them either to stop or to continue trying because I assumed that they would just stop at that point. When I collected the camper they confirmed that they had been unable to change the brake fluid & reduced the bill by £15. They failed to tell me at that time about the sheared nipple.I had also forgotten that the dealership changed hands sometime between the two services.The caliper has the figures 44 & 48 on the cylinders that I imagine refers to the two diameters. I think that I need to compose a polite letter-incorporating many of your comments-requesting that they replace the damaged caliper at their cost. I will keep you informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 It could also be drilled out and a new set of helicoil threads fitted by most competent garages or engineering works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Ian125 - 2019-04-13 8:42 PM The caliper has the figures 44 & 48 on the cylinders that I imagine refers to the two diameters. Yes, those refer to the piston diameters. 44mm & 48mm on the 3300kg MAM chassis, rising to 46mm & 52mm on the 3500Kg version. There will be another figure for disc thickness (24,28,32) somewhere.. They make so many versions matched to the MAM that I suppose it's no wonder that they are expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 £150 to free off a couple of bleed nipples? Is this the same outfit that wanted to charge someone else on here £1500 to change a cam belt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Ian125 - 2019-04-13 8:42 PM Thank you very much for your valuable comments. I should have added a couple of points to my original post. The dealer did phone me whilst they were servicing the vehicle & told me that the bleed nipples were seized. They said that it might be possible to free them by applying heat & that the extra cost would be £150. I declined. I did not instruct them either to stop or to continue trying because I assumed that they would just stop at that point. When I collected the camper they confirmed that they had been unable to change the brake fluid & reduced the bill by £15. They failed to tell me at that time about the sheared nipple.I had also forgotten that the dealership changed hands sometime between the two services.The caliper has the figures 44 & 48 on the cylinders that I imagine refers to the two diameters. I think that I need to compose a polite letter-incorporating many of your comments-requesting that they replace the damaged caliper at their cost. I will keep you informed. A further thought. Are you a member of any motoring organisation (AA, RAC etc.)? If so I would speak to them first. They should have knowledge of what it is reasonable to expect of a garage, and be able to comment authoritatively (or possibly prepare an engineer's report) on your experience. If you are not a member, it may be worth considering joining to get them on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 A passing thought, do the nipples rust in place from the outside due to road muck etc or from the inside because the brake fluid becomes contaminated by water absorption ? Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian125 Posted April 14, 2019 Author Share Posted April 14, 2019 Brian I like your suggestion. I am a member of the AA so I will give them a call. Tomorrow I intend to find out the email of the service manager & send him a message requesting that they repair the damage at their expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laika.brian Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 tonyishuk - 2019-04-14 9:47 PM A passing thought, do the nipples rust in place from the outside due to road muck etc or from the inside because the brake fluid becomes contaminated by water absorption ? It is more a matter of two different materials, the nipples are metal ( see photo Steve's post) and the brake caliper of cast material combined with the heat would cause corrosion, added is the fact the sealing surfaces is large ( the bevelled shape) and the corrosive nature of brake fluid ( non lubricant) . you can remove a nipple and apply a little copper grease to the threads, but as Brian states its all fixed price, sounds great until it goes wrong then >:-) poor workmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 As brake fluid is hygroscopic, I strongly suspect the latter. If I am in the position of being able to completely remove a bleed nipple, I take the opportunity to apply a minimal smear of very thick grease to the thread only of the nipple. The idea is that this should prevent brake fluid flowing into the thread area during subsequent use of the nipple. Either I have been lucky, or the precaution has worked. Another usefull tip when working hydraulic systems is from Hayes manuals. Fill the reervoir to the brim with fresh brake fluid, and ecure a piece of thin plastic over the filler hole. Any fluid lost with quick changes of nipples etc will then be minimal, as a partial vacuum is created at the top of the reservoir. I used this technique when changing the clutch master cylinder on my X244 Ducato. I did not need to drain, refill and bleed the braking system, as suggested in the eLearn procedure. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian125 Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 Just a minor update. I have sent an email to the service manager. The message has been acknowledged and I am promised a response next week. The AA only seem to want to sell things & I failed to find a way of talking to a person about this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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