Cattwg Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Whilst transiting France last Autumn a camera flashed as I passed. The months went by and no fine so I thought I’d got away with it. The post this morning included a €45 fine for travelling at 9k/hr over the speed limit. No excuse really, I was going downhill and should have braked to stay legal. So I’m not whinging. However, like many on here we tend to go to the Continent for several weeks at a time. If the letter had arrived during one of those trips the amount would have escalated from €45 to €68 after 46 days and to €180 after 77 days of non-payment. So, in one sense I was fortunate in that I was home when the demand arrived. The documentation was in English and I was able to pay on-line with a credit card – at least they make it easy!!!!!!!! :-S :-S :-S For interest, the offence occurred 06/10/2018 and the starting date for the days to pay count was 25/03/2019. Cattwg :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Not too bad a fine plus no points on your licence either. Last year i got a NIP the day i was leaving so i contacted them to try and get it sorted explaining i'd be out of UK for 3 month. They told me they would put the case "on hold" (their exact words) until i was back, and return the NIP with attached note to say who i'd spoke to etc. Instead, once they knew i was out of the country they went back on their word and processed it. By the time i'd arrived back home it was in the court system. £100 fine plus 3 points.....4mph over in a 30 area. In Germany the same speed would have cost me £8.50 with no points. Yours also would have been the same assuming you were out of town (in town it would be £12.80) This is their system; https://rechneronline.de/bussgeld/speeding-fines.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-04-03 4:59 PM Not too bad a fine plus no points on your licence either. Last year i got a NIP the day i was leaving so i contacted them to try and get it sorted explaining i'd be out of UK for 3 month. They told me they would put the case "on hold" (their exact words) until i was back, and return the NIP with attached note to say who i'd spoke to etc. Instead, once they knew i was out of the country they went back on their word and processed it. By the time i'd arrived back home it was in the court system. £100 fine plus 3 points.....4mph over in a 30 area. In Germany the same speed would have cost me £8.50 with no points. Yours also would have been the same assuming you were out of town (in town it would be £12.80) This is their system; https://rechneronline.de/bussgeld/speeding-fines.php So are you saying we should have the German system where it's OK for those who can afford to speed? ;-) ........ How very Capitalist :D ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rael Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-04-03 7:08 PM Bulletguy - 2019-04-03 4:59 PM Not too bad a fine plus no points on your licence either. Last year i got a NIP the day i was leaving so i contacted them to try and get it sorted explaining i'd be out of UK for 3 month. They told me they would put the case "on hold" (their exact words) until i was back, and return the NIP with attached note to say who i'd spoke to etc. Instead, once they knew i was out of the country they went back on their word and processed it. By the time i'd arrived back home it was in the court system. £100 fine plus 3 points.....4mph over in a 30 area. In Germany the same speed would have cost me £8.50 with no points. Yours also would have been the same assuming you were out of town (in town it would be £12.80) This is their system; https://rechneronline.de/bussgeld/speeding-fines.php So are you saying we should have the German system where it's OK for those who can afford to speed? ;-) ........ How very Capitalist :D ....... Its not quite that simple.... Having lived in Germany for many years, believe me you would not want to repeat offend too often. Our German cousins take a pretty dim view of anyone who takes the piss when it comes to driving offences. I think you'll find its a fairly egalitarian system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnfromnorfolk Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Surprised how long it has taken for the fine to arrive. I was flashed in France at the end of August and had not yet received a notification and wondered if I was in the clear. I also think that although I was flashed by a roadside bloke, I didn't think i was actually breaking the speed limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 It appears our continental neighbours are getting their speeding / traffic offences issued before Brexit. I've a friend on FB, posted he has just received a speeding ticket going back to July 18, responding posts shows one individual just received a Toll violation in Italy going back almost 7 years. Are EU countries trying to get their hands on the money before they become unenforceable when/if we leave ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 The EU Cross-Border Enforcement Directive is referred to in this February 2019 link https://www.confused.com/on-the-road/driving-abroad/avoid-these-holiday-motoring-traps EU Cross-Border Enforcement Directive If you commit a driving offence in certain EU countries, it will now be easier to prosecute you, thanks to the EU cross-border enforcement directive. In early 2015, the directive was introduced to the EU, which allows authorities to chase up motorists who have committed specific driving offences in their country. Only certain countries in the EU decided to opt in, but in May 2017, the scheme was introduced to the UK, along with Denmark and Ireland. Finland and Portugal have not signed up as of yet. The scheme targets eight specific offences, these are: Driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs Speeding Driving through a red light Driving in forbidden lanes Using your mobile phone behind the wheel Failing to wear a seat belt or helmet The countries that are members of the directive will be encouraged to exchange the identity or the registered keeper or owner of the vehicle at the time of the offence. If you do receive such a fine in the post, you will be entitled to challenge it in the same way you would a UK charge, but clearly this is likely to be a more complicated process. Legally speaking, however, a fine such as this can’t be enforced in Britain in the same way as a UK-issued fine: foreign authorities can’t ask the British judiciary to help them get their money. Motoring lawyer Jeanette Miller, managing director of Geoffrey Miller Solicitors, says: “The long and the short of it is that, a foreign speeding ticket alone is probably not recognised in the UK at the moment.” It's unclear how Brexit will effect this directive, but you should always follow to rules of the road, whatever country you're in. Although (say) the French authorities can ask the DVLA for contact details for UK motorists who commit a motoring offence, I can’t find any credible information to suggest that, if the UK motorist chooses to ignore the French ‘violation notice’, a UK authority (eg. the DVLA or the UK police) can be tasked to progress the matter further. Obviously, if a UK motorist receives a French ‘violation-notice’ letter and responds to it by paying the fine demanded or appealing, there will be no doubt that the UK motorist has received the letter. But the French violation-notices are (apparently) being sent to UK motorists using a basic mail service, with no signature being required at the UK end and, consequently, no obvious paper trail. So, even though the French authorities will have a record of the letter being sent, there is no certainty that it will reach the intended recipient, particularly if the letter is sent months after the alleged offence has taken place. And if the UK motorist ignores the first letter, will subsequent letters be sent? I’ve no ethical problem with the Enforcement Directive, but the French seem to be exploiting the Directive ‘on the cheap’ with no attempt being made to track the violation-notices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinM50 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 A few years ago got flashed and a speeding fine in Holland in a hire car so in typical fashion ignored it and didn't pay. On one trip back to UK a few months later, went through customs and immigration in Schiphol before my flight home and was detained for a full discusion. Explained to the officer that I was in a rush and if I waited much longer there was a chance I'd miss my flight, last one of the day. "No sir", he told me "we'll keep you here until we're sure the last flight has gone" Got taken to a little room and they explained I had two choices. Pay the fine there and then, forget how much it was but it wasn't peanuts, or I could go to jail for ten days. Somehow managed to find the cash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 About 5 years ago after a trip to New Zealand where I had hire car I received a speeding ticket, only about 20 NZ$ so payed up. A couple of days later received an email from the car rental firm I'd used to tell me they had taken 35 NZ$ from my credit card because they'd had to supply my details to the police. A double whammy, annoying but not worth getting upset about, got from all angles. The answer is don't speed and if you do then don't complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Derek Uzzell - 2019-04-05 1:55 PM Obviously, if a UK motorist receives a French ‘violation-notice’ letter and responds to it by paying the fine demanded or appealing, there will be no doubt that the UK motorist has received the letter. But the French violation-notices are (apparently) being sent to UK motorists using a basic mail service, with no signature being required at the UK end and, consequently, no obvious paper trail. So, even though the French authorities will have a record of the letter being sent, there is no certainty that it will reach the intended recipient..... Derek, This is exactly how our own NIP's are sent out in UK...by basic mail requiring no signature. It's partly how Beckham dodged his speeding offence in that the car he was driving was owned by Bentley Motors so the NIP went there. Beckhams lawyer let the case proceed to court where the judge believed the secretary from Bentley who claimed it had "arrived on the 15th day" which meant it was one day outside the period. Draw your own conclusion on who you believe over that one but Beckhams lawyers isn't known as "Mr Loophole" for nothing. The time limit NIP's have is 14 days to point of receipt but until the police camera team start sending them out "signed for", imo it's wide open for anyone to 'do a Beckham'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 I wasn’t aware of that. The last time I was prosecuted for speeding was when I was driving my wife’s car through the outskirts of Bristol on 14 January 2000 and got ‘flashed’ by a hidden speed-camera when doing 43mph in a 30mph road. The fine was £40 and I’m fairly sure I had to sign for the penalty notice and that the postman grinned when I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cattwg Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 ColinM50 - 2019-04-05 2:41 PM On one trip back to UK a few months later, went through customs and immigration in Schiphol before my flight home and was detained for a full discusion. Explained to the officer that I was in a rush and if I waited much longer there was a chance I'd miss my flight, last one of the day. "No sir", he told me "we'll keep you here until we're sure the last flight has gone" This is exactly why I paid the fine without quibble. We go to Europe, usually via France, quite often and I didn't want to be I detained one day in the future for non-payment. With the final bill being way over the original €43. Regarding signing for the letter. I definitely did not sign for it. It was on the mat in the hall when we returned from a shopping trip. Cattwg :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 I received a FPN about ten years ago for speeding offence (partner's schadenfreude evaporated instantly once we established that it was she who had been driving at the time), and that was sent by first class post with no signature required. I'm not sure whether the rules are different for criminal cases, but the civil courts do not need confirmation of receipt and are entitled to deem documents as having been served on the second working day after posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 "A notice shall be deemed to have been served on a person if it was posted to them at their last known address, notwithstanding that the notice was returned as undelivered or was for any other reason not received by them. The posted NIP is deemed to be served until the contrary is shown." Ask the Police website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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