Posted: 16 January 2021 1:19 PM Subject: RE: Speeding in France
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street
I think the point is fairly simple. The most probable way in which any of us is likely to commit an offence outside UK is speeding, and the most probable way that is likely to happen is via a fixed speed camera.
So the relevant authorities now have all the details they need (time, date, vehicle registration, actual speed and limit in force) to penalise the offence.
What they no longer have is automated access to DVBLA records to allow them to contact us individually to levy the fine. But they still have the details, and they can still recognise the vehicle via ANPR whether in a police car or any other networked ANPR camera.
They can also, is they choose, still contact the UK authorities, as was the case before the UK signed up to the EU Cross-Border Enforcement Directive.
The only questions, I think, will be whether they will bother and, if they do, how they will go about it.
The usual penalty is an on the spot fine if identified by a patrol car or manned roadside speed check, or whatever alternative system may be adopted to identify offending vehicle in the vicinity of the ports.
I just don't see how the idea that one will simply drive away - possibly in complete ignorance - and the fine will just be left behind, can be sustained. Few countries that have introduced very widespread networked ANPR speed cameras, which continually "bag" their nationals, will ignore the political pressure from their own nationals complaining that the British are getting away Scot Free with traffic offences.
mtravel - 2021-01-13 2:46 PM
Have you ever thought that many countries are now turning credit/debt to collection companies ?
For example, it happened to a Dutch friend of mine for a parking fine taken in Italy.
Incidentally, the company entrusted with the case (I don't remember the name) was headquartered in the UK.
And it obviously has access to your data. I would say not to tempt fate.
Max
This poses an interesting question. If the fine has been ‘bought’ (i.e. effectively paid) by a debt company then presumably the authority concerned has no further interest in the offence. So what is the legal position if the offender refuses to pay the debt company. The company would probably have to take the person to court.
Interesting, for those who like hypothetical questions.
Cattwg
Posted: 17 January 2021 11:54 AM Subject: RE: Speeding in France
Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street
Cattwg - 2021-01-17 11:24 AM
mtravel - 2021-01-13 2:46 PM
Have you ever thought that many countries are now turning credit/debt to collection companies ?
For example, it happened to a Dutch friend of mine for a parking fine taken in Italy.
Incidentally, the company entrusted with the case (I don't remember the name) was headquartered in the UK.
And it obviously has access to your data. I would say not to tempt fate.
Max
This poses an interesting question. If the fine has been ‘bought’ (i.e. effectively paid) by a debt company then presumably the authority concerned has no further interest in the offence. So what is the legal position if the offender refuses to pay the debt company. The company would probably have to take the person to court.
Interesting, for those who like hypothetical questions.
Cattwg
My hypothetical reply is that the debt factor only acts as an agent of the state for the purpose of gathering the fine. If the fine is deemed unrecoverable by the factor, they will hand back the infraction to the state which will, in all probability, hand the issue to the police to resolve by whatever means the law of the state dictates. Speeding, at least in UK, is a criminal, and not a civil, offence. Somewhere, that record of a criminal offence is liable to be retained (unless, of course, it is held on the PNC! ).
Posted: 17 January 2021 12:30 PM Subject: RE: Speeding in France
A posting machine
Posts: 352 Location: 2020 Malibu 600 DB on Ducato 2.3 140CV
Cattwg - 2021-01-17 12:24 PM
Interesting, for those who like hypothetical questions.
Cattwg
More real than hypothetical.
At least threaten to do so until you give in and pay.
They have so many lawyers that for them it is not a problem (see above also my other answer and the experience of my Dutch friend).
Posted: 28 January 2021 2:25 PM Subject: RE: Speeding in France
Just joined
Posts: 5
re debt collection agencies, I had a similar "dispute" with sky tv, (£33) it went from sky to agency, then back to sky over a period of over 12 months before they gave in. And no, I certainly did not owe them anything and would have happily disputed it in court
Posted: 28 January 2021 2:48 PM Subject: RE: Speeding in France
Epic contributor
Posts: 1804
Having watched Cant Pay we will take it away on TV where bailiffs chase unpaid debts and parking fines etc, fines that spiral out of control with added charges become huge and out of context to the original fine, I for one would not want to become embroiled in that scenario, so if I did receive a notice of speeding fine I would bite the bullet and pay, if I felt it a genuine fine and proper. If you cant do the time, don't do the Crime as they say.
Posted: 28 January 2021 2:51 PM Subject: RE: Speeding in France
Epic contributor
Posts: 1804
johnjlillie - 2021-01-28 2:25 PM
re debt collection agencies, I had a similar "dispute" with sky tv, (£33) it went from sky to agency, then back to sky over a period of over 12 months before they gave in. And no, I certainly did not owe them anything and would have happily disputed it in court
Trouble wit that is it can be recorded on your credit record and impact on you in the future if you required credit for a mobile phone, or such like ?
Posted: 28 January 2021 6:33 PM Subject: RE: Speeding in France
Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp
As motoring offence fines in Italy (not France - which is what this thread was meant to concentrate on) being pursued by debt collection agencies was mentioned earlier, this 2019/2020 Pistonheads discussion may be of interest
Posted: 28 January 2021 9:43 PM Subject: RE: Speeding in France
The special one
Posts: 10508 Location: North Yorkshire Dales - Kontiki 640 Hank the Tank
Derek Uzzell - 2021-01-28 6:33 PM
As motoring offence fines in Italy (not France - which is what this thread was meant to concentrate on) being pursued by debt collection agencies was mentioned earlier, this 2019/2020 Pistonheads discussion may be of interest
Thats a hire car company though. The hire car company will have your details so will pass them on. I think the argument now is that post Brexit there is no link for the European police to obtain your details from DVLA anymore, like it was pre 2017. I wonder what the outcome of that one was. seemed excessive.
Posted: 29 January 2021 7:59 AM Subject: RE: Speeding in France
Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp
Discussions about debt collection agencies pursuing people in the UK for motoring offences committed abroad have commonly involved cars registered in the country where the offence took place and hired there - it was well known that this happened and shouldn’t be affected by the UK withdrawing from the Mutual Legal Assistance (MLA) scheme with effect from 1 January 2021. (I did read somewhere (purely for example) that if a car were hired in (say) Italy and then driven in (say) Spain where a motoring offence was committed, Spain would not bother pursuing the issue - but I’ve no idea if that’s correct.)
I’m not sure how to interpret your last sentence "I wonder what the outcome of that one was. seemed excessive”. A fortnight ago there was a spate of articles about the effect on ‘foreign’ speeding prosecutions of the UK withdrawing fron the MLA (example on the link in my earlier posting of 15 January 2021 4:11 PM) but I can’t find anything more informative on-line since then.
